Door open and close buttons on the London Underground.

[swt class 450]

Just wondering why are open and close buttons no longer used on London Underground? Does anyone think we should bring them back in use? It seems silly for all doors to be opened at all stations. For example their are some stations towards the ends of all lines which are often very quiet (especially in the evenings) so the doors don't need to be opened. And then there are some stations on all lines (especially terminus stations) where the train waits for a long time so passengers might want to shut the doors. Also on cold days it is especially a good idea for passengers to have control of opening and closing the doors.

The 1995 stock used to have open buttons but they have all been removed a few years ago. The 1996 stock seems to have kept their open buttons though. Does anyone know why they were removed on the 1995 stock and kept on the 1996 stock?

The only stock left that has both open and close buttons is the 1992 stock (on the Central line and the Waterloo & City line). The 1996 stock still has open buttons but no close buttons. The S stock has open buttons but no close buttons (the driver always opens the doors on the S stock but they do close automatically after about a minute if the train hasn't departed yet).

Out of interest on the 1992 stock on the Central line and Waterloo & City lines are the door buttons still able to be used? For example could the driver still activate the open and close buttons for passenger use if they chose to? And also on the 1996 stock and S stock can drivers still activate the open buttons if they chose to?

 

[Mojo]

The 1995 stock used to have open buttons but they have all been removed a few years ago. The 1996 stock seems to have kept their open buttons though. Does anyone know why they were removed on the 1995 stock and kept on the 1996 stock?

Because the 1995 Stock buttons were removed when the trains were refurbished, and the refurbishment on the 1996 Stock only started fairly recently, I think one train may already be in service as I have seen photos, and the external buttons will be removed on refurbished cars. The internal buttons remain for the time being, but the first of the 1995 Stocks kept the internal buttons; I believe there is a requirement for a visual indication the doors are about to close so suspect once this is designed maybe the removal of internal buttons will then follow.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I think one train may already be in service as I have seen photos, and the external buttons will be removed on refurbished cars.

Yep, back in use last week. External buttons removed.

The internal buttons remain for the time being, but the first of the 1995 Stocks kept the internal buttons; I believe there is a requirement for a visual indication the doors are about to close so suspect once this is designed maybe the removal of internal buttons will then follow.

Also correct. They're still there for now but the plan is for them to be removed in due course.

It is possible to put both the '92 and S stock trains into 'passenger open', but its use is not permitted. Ultimately they were disabled to avoid confusion and ease consistency across the lines.

Some trains do have a 'selective close'-style feature for use at terminuses where a number of doors will remain closed to keep more heat inside the cars. It's rarely used nowadays, but can sometimes be seen on really cold mornings.

 

[Dstock7080]

The S stock has open buttons but no close buttons (the driver always opens the doors on the S stock but they do close automatically after about a minute if the train hasn't departed yet).

And also on the 1996 stock and S stock can drivers still activate the open buttons if they chose to?

S Stock doors auto-close after 45secs, unless inhibited by the driver or station equipment. A movement sensor on the doors either side of the wheelchair bay prevents them closing if obstructed.

Drivers of S Stock have three available settings: "Operator"- driver only; "BOTH"; and "Passenger". Only Operator should be selected though.

Trains returning from ATC fitment and engineering mods also have a facility for the doors to be automatically opened when the train is correctly berthed, this is currently inhibited.

 

[MatthewRead]

S Stock doors auto-close after 45secs, unless inhibited by the driver or station equipment. A movement sensor on the doors either side of the wheelchair bay prevents them closing if obstructed.

Drivers of S Stock have three available settings: "Operator"- driver only; "BOTH"; and "Passenger". Only Operator should be selected though.

Trains returning from ATC fitment and engineering mods also have a facility for the doors to be automatically opened when the train is correctly berthed, this is currently inhibited.

When did they get rid of the push button door open procedure on the D stock because I know it was on the 1983 tube stock throughout it's life.

 

[Dstock7080]

When did they get rid of the push button door open procedure on the D stock because I know it was on the 1983 tube stock throughout it's life.

When D Stock were introduced they didn't have opening windows, except the droplights in the communicating doors.
In the early years the temperature inside the cars in summer was unbearable, so a decision was made to fit opening side windows to all cars. The last unit built by Metro-Cammell 7129 was delivered with the new opening windows, all other cars were converted at either Birmingham (single-ended units) or Acton (double-ended units).

Until this process was completed a temporary solution was to fit a P.O.G.O (Passenger Open Guard Open) switch and have the Guard open all the doors in the summer months and revert to passenger operation in the winter. This caused utter confusion at the changeover times!
I'm sure that passenger opening was abandoned around the time of One Person Operation, 4 November 1985 or soon after.
The open buttons were removed upon refurbishment 2003/05.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I agree that at quiet times and/or quiet branches/stations passenger buttons would be handy. I didnt untill the other week when I gryced the Uxbridge branch on a freezing cold Sat Morning on an equally freezing 73 stock train.

 

[MatthewRead]

When D Stock were introduced they didn't have opening windows, except the droplights in the communicating doors.
In the early years the temperature inside the cars in summer was unbearable, so a decision was made to fit opening side windows to all cars. The last unit built by Metro-Cammell 7129 was delivered with the new opening windows, all other cars were converted at either Birmingham (single-ended units) or Acton (double-ended units).

Until this process was completed a temporary solution was to fit a P.O.G.O (Passenger Open Guard Open) switch and have the Guard open all the doors in the summer months and revert to passenger operation in the winter. This caused utter confusion at the changeover times!
I'm sure that passenger opening was abandoned around the time of One Person Operation, 4 November 1985 or soon after.
The open buttons were removed upon refurbishment 2003/05.

But I can remember first going on them and they still had the doors use to just illuminate they didn't open automatically when did they get rid of the passengers opening the doors?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ironically door open buttons are fitted to the replacement S-stock, necessary because of the air conditioning.

(Rode some S-stock this morning, and each time I do I can't help but feel they are a real advance on anything that came before - almost a perfect train for the application they are in with very few significant flaws)

 

[Blindtraveler]

Agreed there. That said I just can't get to liking them at all, they have no character, but thats me purely speeking as an enthusiast. If I switch of rail fan mode and look at them from a Norm's viewpoint then they are just ground breakingly good.

 

[Dstock7080]

when did they get rid of the passengers opening the doors?

thought I'd answered that in my post above.

 

[rebmcr]

Some transverse seating for the District is a notable omission -- some of the journeys there are very long.

It doesn't even really make sense to have a homogeneous fleet of S7's, because AFAIK the District pool is maintained and utilised completely separate from the H&C/Circle pool?

 

[Domh245]

Some transverse seating for the District is a notable omission -- some of the journeys there are very long.

It doesn't even really make sense to have a homogeneous fleet of S7's, because AFAIK the District pool is maintained and utilised completely separate from the H&C/Circle pool?

Mixed pool for the S7s. Heavy maintenance for S7s is done at Upminster and Ealing common (and Neasden) but all units are a common pool. Units change from District to H&C/C from Lille Bridge, Parsons Green, and Barking IIRC.

 

[MatthewRead]

thought I'd answered that in my post above.

They still had the procedure in place as recently as 1994 as i found out through a YouTube video see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du89mA8R8wg

 

[Dstock7080]

The buttons still illuminated until they were removed from each train upon refurbishment.
The actual passenger operation, individual doors opened by the passenger, was abandoned much earlier than 1994 on D Stock.

 

[MatthewRead]

The buttons still illuminated until they were removed from each train upon refurbishment.
The actual passenger operation, individual doors opened by the passenger, was abandoned much earlier than 1994 on D Stock.

They certainly still had it in 1993 see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K_kvY_RkRg

 

[321over360]

Sometimes i wish the buttons would come back to use on the 1992 stock especially when it is pouring with rain so you can close the doors up. Only grace of the 1992 stock having doors open until departure is it allows the train to cool down and air itself as for some reason drivers put the heating on aboard the stock which isnt needed and even on a mild day then you get passengers who close the window and subject everyone to a stuffy train out of selfishness

 

[Lrd]

Sometimes i wish the buttons would come back to use on the 1992 stock especially when it is pouring with rain so you can close the doors up. Only grace of the 1992 stock having doors open until departure is it allows the train to cool down and air itself as for some reason drivers put the heating on aboard the stock which isnt needed and even on a mild day then you get passengers who close the window and subject everyone to a stuffy train out of selfishness

Drivers have no control over heating/cooling. It's all done automagically by the train. The Central Line is notorious for being swelteringly hot even on the cold days partly due to rubbish trains (that kick out a lot of heat) and not a lot of ventilation in the tunnels.

 

[Mikey C]

Sometimes i wish the buttons would come back to use on the 1992 stock especially when it is pouring with rain so you can close the doors up. Only grace of the 1992 stock having doors open until departure is it allows the train to cool down and air itself as for some reason drivers put the heating on aboard the stock which isnt needed and even on a mild day then you get passengers who close the window and subject everyone to a stuffy train out of selfishness

Yes, with the way that the doors curve into the roof for easy access, rain (and snow!) can be let in when out on the surface!

 

[Lrd]

Yes, with the way that the doors curve into the roof for easy access, rain (and snow!) can be let in when out on the surface!

Down at Ealing Broadway, more rain comes into the carriage on the part of the train that is under the canopy than out of it. It just pours in.

 

[bramling]

Drivers have no control over heating/cooling.

Not quite so; certainly on 95 stock, and I imagine others similar vintage trains, there's a "heat & vent cut-out switch", which although normally in the on position can be switched off if necessary. This will cut out the saloon ventilation fans. This is often done if there's an issue with tunnel dust being drawn into cars, or as a means of clearing faults reported on the train's TMS, but some drivers also operate the switch as it creates a rather pleasant peaceful atmosphere. With regards to the latter, personally I wouldn't have the switch cut out on a hot day, or if the train becomes stuck in the tunnel for an extended period, but in moderate weather conditions for a lightly-loaded train it's perfectly okay.

 

[bramling]

The buttons still illuminated until they were removed from each train upon refurbishment.
The actual passenger operation, individual doors opened by the passenger, was abandoned much earlier than 1994 on D Stock.

I'm sure I remember passenger open being used on the D stock much later than 1994. Certainly into the late 1990s. I distinctly recall posters being displayed at stations during the autumn advising passengers that they would not need to press the button.

 

[Lrd]

Not quite so; certainly on 95 stock, and I imagine others similar vintage trains, there's a "heat & vent cut-out switch", which although normally in the on position can be switched off if necessary. This will cut out the saloon ventilation fans. This is often done if there's an issue with tunnel dust being drawn into cars, or as a means of clearing faults reported on the train's TMS, but some drivers also operate the switch as it creates a rather pleasant peaceful atmosphere. With regards to the latter, personally I wouldn't have the switch cut out on a hot day, or if the train becomes stuck in the tunnel for an extended period, but in moderate weather conditions for a lightly-loaded train it's perfectly okay.

I'm speaking with 92 stock in mind, all we have is MCBs in each carriage to cut out the vents. Certainly no control from the cab.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Down at Ealing Broadway, more rain comes into the carriage on the part of the train that is under the canopy than out of it. It just pours in.

Is that because it's getting all the water running off the canopy?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Some transverse seating for the District is a notable omission -- some of the journeys there are very long.

It doesn't even really make sense to have a homogeneous fleet of S7's, because AFAIK the District pool is maintained and utilised completely separate from the H&C/Circle pool?

At this moment in time maybe but come the 'transmogrification' depot staff, train crew and rolling stock will all need to be more maleable.

 

[bluegoblin7]

At this moment in time maybe but come the 'transmogrification' depot staff, train crew and rolling stock will all need to be more maleable.

They are all interchangeable already. Any S7 can run on any of the three lines, and with C&H trains stabling at District depots they get mixed up a lot

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

They are all interchangeable already. Any S7 can run on any of the three lines, and with C&H trains stabling at District depots they get mixed up a lot

Which is why they all display both District and C&H route maps

 

[swt class 450]

Thanks for all the info. I didnt realise what a complex history door buttons on the London Underground have had. It will be interesting to see if the replacement stock for the Bakerloo Line and Piccadilly Line get door buttons. Other than the D / S / 1992 / 1995 / 1996 stocks were any others stocks fitted with buttons? Did the A / C / 1986 stocks have buttons?

 

[J-2739]

Thanks for all the info. I didnt realise what a complex history door buttons on the London Underground have had. It will be interesting to see if the replacement stock for the Bakerloo Line and Piccadilly Line get door buttons. Other than the D / S / 1992 / 1995 / 1996 stocks were any others stocks fitted with buttons? Did the A / C / 1986 stocks have buttons?

I'm almost certain that the C stock never had open door buttons. I don't think the A stock has had them either.

Looking at old photos, I can tell you that the 1986 stock had open door buttons, like the 1992 stock.

 

[edwin_m]

Some years ago the Independent was running a campaign for better public access to something or other, possibly information about transport. The picture they used to illustrate the articles was the Open button on 1996 stock, ironic because those buttons didn't do anything at the time and never would...