Dr Who - 2017 series

[Bayum]

Before I'd watched the episode knowing that the character of Bill was leaving the series and that the Mondasian Cybermen would appear I had a gut feeling that Bill would get converted.

It'll be interesting to see if John Simm's Master forces Missy to regenerate

Is that not a major spoiler alert, sweetie?

 

[TheNewNo2]

That was a very interesting episode I thought. Don't care too much about the cybermen, and the idea of two Masters at once is a nice twist on the several Doctors trope (and did we really learn the Doctor's name?). What I really liked was the time dilation. That is realistic and also a very interesting thing to use as a plot device.

I am surprised to see John Simm back though. I thought he'd learned to hate Who due to the obsessive fans who kept bothering him.

 

[Jonny]

Watching it over again, after the reveal, I am still finding John Simm's acting in disguise as Razor quite convincing. Also, I noticed an oblique reference to the six million dollar man "I'm rebuilding you to survive" (The Surgeon) to Bill just before she got cyber converted.

I also noticed a lot of Johnston-style fonts being used, including the "Conversion Theatre" signage, and it almost looked like some stations on the London Underground.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I just had the most evil thought... Imagine if this week the Doctor ends up regenerating ... into Missy! That could make for some fun future episodes!

 

[backontrack]

Spoilers for last week's episode, 'World Enough And Time', in the post below.

This has been a very good series. The episode set in Scotland was excellent. And this looks to be a brilliant finale.

Capaldi really holds things together. His Doctor is very 'big', but at the same time very understated. One twinkle of his eyebrows and he really does seem like a mega-powerful space alien. He really does.

(I really do think that "No, no, noooooo!" as Twelve's last words don't really fit, however. I'd prefer it much more if Capaldi's Doctor accepted his fate instead, with a smile. That would be much more fitting for this Doctor rather than a re-hash of David Tennant's regeneration.)

Nardole has been the surprise hit of this series, for me. He's slotted in effortlessly, providing humour but also a couple of serious points in previous episodes. For me, he's been worth the price of admission alone.

And then we have Bill. Bill never really gelled for me in a way. In the same way that Rose was "BadWolf", and that Clara was "The Impossible Girl", Bill is "The Girl Who Nearly Dies Every Episode". But I'm warming to her. I did like her first outing (it just became a bit predictable after that with "He saves people!" and stuff like that, but much of that last episode was a Bill-and-Razor single-hander, and she struck me as affable. I think she handled it well - though her highlight of the series was nearly killing herself in the Monks' pyramid. I actually thought she was going to die then.

John Simm doesn't even have to do anything, really. I see him on screen and I'm immediately feeling "It's John Simm! This is going to be an amazing episode!". I'm glad he doesn't hate the show yet (at least enough to turn his back on it).

And Missy. This is where Missy is no longer just 'The Female Master'. This is where Missy becomes Missy.

Because Missy had also been a revelation. Her battles with her - well, less-dark - side have been very well acted by Michelle Gomez. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Missy does next.

 

[TheNewNo2]

So, having watched the series finale, I'm once again saddened.

For several reasons. First and most importantly, that Peter Capaldi is leaving. Capaldi has been a truly excellent Doctor, but he has almost invariably been given utter dross to work with.

I'm also saddened that again, Moffat has written a woman as a puzzle rather than a person. River Song, Clara, now Bill through a deus ex machina. It's tiresome. I will not be sad to see the back of Moffat - his fetish for twists and puzzles at the expense of story has dragged down Capaldi and Smith's tenures (and frankly every episode of Sherlock after season 2). I can't be the only one who noticed how the story frankly didn't hang together. Bill is a Cyberman, and in an explosion which kills every Cyberman she somehow survives? The Cybermen assaulting floor 507 - why there, had they really finished off the 1000 floors below? How do the balaclava Cybermen fly and crash through floors without dying? If Cyberman can crash through 1000 floors, why does a small explosion kill them? How is CyberBill able to prevent a spaceship from flying away simply by holding a rope-ladder yet the spaceship is able to fly away once she's inside it.

This is all very frustrating. After last week's episode contained an interesting trick with the time dilation, this one just felt like a bit of a farce pretending to be deep and meaningful.

One thing I did like however was the Doctor berating the Master for not being feminist enough. I can't help but hope this is a hint towards the next regeneration being into a woman.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The time dilation seems to be a little screwy I thought that with time slowing down nearer the black hole that time would run quicker on the upper decks and not on the lower decks like it is in the episodes

 

[TheNewNo2]

The time dilation seems to be a little screwy I thought that with time slowing down nearer the black hole that time would run quicker on the upper decks and not on the lower decks like it is in the episodes

No, they got that detail right. It's a consequence of Relativity, and it's something which we have actual physical evidence of: atomic clocks were sent into space and then reunited with ones which had been left on Earth, and they found the ones which went into space were slightly ahead of those that hadn't gone, due to the effects of gravity.

 

[Jonny]

Spoilers for last week's episode, 'World Enough And Time', in the post below.

John Simm doesn't even have to do anything, really. I see him on screen and I'm immediately feeling "It's John Simm! This is going to be an amazing episode!". I'm glad he doesn't hate the show yet (at least enough to turn his back on it).

I thought that John Simm's acting - particularly the consistent Eastern European accent up to a deliberate slide at "former prime minister" - made that episode work as well.

I was surprised by tonight's revelation that Bill's cyber-conversion took place with "two hours to go" until the Doctor/Doctor Who arrived (after ten years at the bottom level).

 

[infobleep]

I have been watching the classic series, one episode a week since 23rd November 2013, with an annual summer break as existed 50 years ago. It was interesting therefore that both 1967 and 2017 seasons ended today.

The 1967 story was a 7 part story featuring Daleks. Really good story but only 1 episode fully remains. At least some people recorded the audio.

The 2017 story featured Cybermen. A style of Cybermen first featured at the start of season 4 backbone in 1966. Season 4 being the one I've just finished.

I watched both episodes tonight decided I thought tonight's 2017 episode was better but both were quality classics.

In fact there are very few Doctor Who episodes up to 1967 that I haven't enjoyed. Shows how good it was. I have enjoyed the latest 2017 season too.

Although Murry Gold is talented, I prefer the classic series music as a whole. Duddly Simpson was the composer of tonight's 1967 episode and his music fitted the episode well.

 

[2392]

I was intriged by last nights' [Sat. 1/7/17]. As it would appear that the "new" Doctor is a retro of the original William Hartnall. Not that, thats a bad thing per sa, be interesting to see how the new incarnation works out.

 

[martin2345uk]

I was intriged by last nights' [Sat. 1/7/17]. As it would appear that the "new" Doctor is a retro of the original William Hartnall. Not that, thats a bad thing per sa, be interesting to see how the new incarnation works out.

That isn't the "new" Doctor, it's the first doctor just being played by a different actor for obvious reasons

 

[TheNewNo2]

I was surprised by tonight's revelation that Bill's cyber-conversion took place with "two hours to go" until the Doctor/Doctor Who arrived (after ten years at the bottom level).

Well, given the time dilation they'd have a lot of warning of the Doctor's arrival.

 

[Rhydgaled]

assuming the episode is set in the current year, several classic Dr Who stories tell us that Cybermen - at least the original ones from Mondas, who are the ones rumoured to be appearing in this season - have already been in existence as fully-fledged steel creatures for at least about 50 years (and have already attempted to invade Earth a couple of times).

How does that work? Do the Cybermen have a time machine because Mondas I'm assuming is a human colony world and in the 'current year' as you put it humans don't have the technology to move to other planets. Thus the original Mondas Cybermen are from the future, or do I need to have watching earlier episodes (prior to the '9th Doctor' which was when I started watching Doctor Who) to understand?

Possible spoillers follow if you haven't seen the most-recent episode.

I was intriged by last nights' [Sat. 1/7/17]. As it would appear that the "new" Doctor is a retro of the original William Hartnall. Not that, thats a bad thing per sa, be interesting to see how the new incarnation works out.

That isn't the "new" Doctor, it's the first doctor just being played by a different actor for obvious reasons

I was wondering that, is the 'doctor' at the end:
(A.) a re-cast of the first doctor,
(B.) the next doctor after Peter Capaldi or
(C.) another puzzle/trick/red-herring like David Morrissey's Jackson Lake character?

Although it had a few good points, I was slightly disapointed with that last episode of the 2017 series, particularly that John Simm's master didn't seem to play a significant role (until his 'suicide', did they really just kill off the character for good?). He wasn't his normal villianous self for long. Once Missy hit him over the head (soon after the cybermen started going after Time Lords) the master just seemed to give up on making life really difficult for the doctor and instead basiclly left everyone else to get on with it. There's also a possible plot-hole (or possibly a deliberate time paradox), Missy's speech about always having a spare dematerialisation curcuit presumably means she goes back in time after the event and tells John Simm's master to carry the spare. Thus, unless it came out of Missy's pocket, not John Simm's )which is where I thought they found the spare), if Missy is dead she cannot go back in time and make the master bring a spare, which means John Simm's master couldn't have got out alive in order to become Missy.

 

[Bayum]

So, having watched the series finale, I'm once again saddened.

For several reasons. First and most importantly, that Peter Capaldi is leaving. Capaldi has been a truly excellent Doctor, but he has almost invariably been given utter dross to work with.

I'm also saddened that again, Moffat has written a woman as a puzzle rather than a person. River Song, Clara, now Bill through a deus ex machina. It's tiresome. I will not be sad to see the back of Moffat - his fetish for twists and puzzles at the expense of story has dragged down Capaldi and Smith's tenures (and frankly every episode of Sherlock after season 2). I can't be the only one who noticed how the story frankly didn't hang together. Bill is a Cyberman, and in an explosion which kills every Cyberman she somehow survives? The Cybermen assaulting floor 507 - why there, had they really finished off the 1000 floors below? How do the balaclava Cybermen fly and crash through floors without dying? If Cyberman can crash through 1000 floors, why does a small explosion kill them? How is CyberBill able to prevent a spaceship from flying away simply by holding a rope-ladder yet the spaceship is able to fly away once she's inside it.

This is all very frustrating. After last week's episode contained an interesting trick with the time dilation, this one just felt like a bit of a farce pretending to be deep and meaningful.

One thing I did like however was the Doctor berating the Master for not being feminist enough. I can't help but hope this is a hint towards the next regeneration being into a woman.

Wasn't Bill fighting elsewhere?

Floor 507 was where the two heart timelords had escaped to... Dr Who changed the parameters of 'human' to two hearts, so the Cybermen gave chase up into the ship...

Cybermen are built to be far stronger than their human counterparts. With their intelligence, I'd assume that the Cybermen knew how to target particular areas so as to not harm themselves. Your Bill and the spaceship comment ties in with this; it isn't necessarily strength=weight. Bill could quite easily hold onto the spaceship with strength but not weigh down.

 

[2392]

That isn't the "new" Doctor, it's the first doctor just being played by a different actor for obvious reasons

Yes I know it isn't the late William Hartnall, the original. Hence the term ........"retro"......

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The time dilation seems to be a little screwy I thought that with time slowing down nearer the black hole that time would run quicker on the upper decks and not on the lower decks like it is in the episodes

Depends which part of the spaceship is nearest the black hole

For the physics of that bit to work correctly, the ship must be pointed so that the upper decks are nearest to the event horizon, so that time runs slower on them.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Wasn't Bill fighting elsewhere?

Floor 507 was where the two heart timelords had escaped to... Dr Who changed the parameters of 'human' to two hearts, so the Cybermen gave chase up into the ship...

Cybermen are built to be far stronger than their human counterparts. With their intelligence, I'd assume that the Cybermen knew how to target particular areas so as to not harm themselves. Your Bill and the spaceship comment ties in with this; it isn't necessarily strength=weight. Bill could quite easily hold onto the spaceship with strength but not weigh down.

Bill was said to be defending the rear of the house, while the Doctor took the front.

And no, the holding down a spaceship still doesn't make sense. She is quite clearly holding it down somehow - given she didn't appear to be hooked to the building, the only force which can be exerted on the ship is her weight - if she were able to exert greater force than that she would lift herself off the building.

 

[Jonny]

Depends which part of the spaceship is nearest the black hole

For the physics of that bit to work correctly, the ship must be pointed so that the upper decks are nearest to the event horizon, so that time runs slower on them.

That was my understanding - the front/top level was closest to the black hole where time was slowest, whereas time was running faster on floor 1056.

 

[Jonny]

As for seamless references, how about "Robomop" (Robocop) and "trying to rile a 'fridge" ('smart' appliances) in one scene.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Jodie Whittaker is the new Doctor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40624288

Jodie Whittaker has been announced as the Doctor Who's 13th Time Lord - the first woman to get the role.

She was revealed in a Doctor Who trailer that was broadcast on BBC One at the end of the Wimbledon men's singles final.

The Broadchurch star succeeds Peter Capaldi, who took the role in 2013 and leaves in this year's Christmas special.

Whittaker, 35, will make her debut on the sci-fi show this Christmas.

 

[Darandio]

Philip Hammond will be so proud......

 

[trash80]

A lot of people are angry about this, always amazes me.

I haven't seen anything shes been in (apart from Black Mirror) but i'm looking forward to seeing how she does.

 

[chris11256]

Now for the next question. Is the new companion going to be male or female?

Or tick the BBC diversity box and have a gender neutral character? *Meant in humorous way*

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Now for the next question. Is the new companion going to be male or female?

Or tick the BBC diversity box and have a gender neutral character? *Meant in humorous way*

If there's no overlap in filming with Game of Thrones, maybe Massie Williams to return as Ashildr?

 

[TheNewNo2]

If there's no overlap in filming with Game of Thrones, maybe Massie Williams to return as Ashildr?

The fewer remnants of Moffat's "puzzle women" the better thankyou very much.

I have never seen Whittaker, except in St Trinian's. I am sad to see Capaldi go though, he was excellently cast, just served with poor scripts. Let's hope Chris Chibnall does better than Moffat.

 

[Bevan Price]

We will only know if she is fit for purpose as Dr. Who when we have seen her first few episodes.

 

[Butts]

I don't think Dr Who should ever be female

Chris Marshall would have been an excellent choice - I thought that's why he had left Death in Paradise to assume the role.

If it had to be a woman I would rather have had Phoebe Waller- Bridge

 

[ComUtoR]

Seriously, I think I'm looking forward to a female Dr.

 

[AlterEgo]

We will only know if she is fit for purpose as Dr. Who when we have seen her first few episodes.

Yes and especially so when she was cast to fit the BBC's stated goal of "increasing diversity". Allegations of tokenism are going to make it harder for her.