Driver Manager role, whats involved?

[Will.C]

Hi, just curious as to what is involved in the role of a Driver Manager. Also, what does it take to get to this position and how long does it take to progress up to the position?

Many thanks

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Managing Drivers.

You'd have to be a qualified driver with ample experience, a decent SoL and attendance record and be able to manage others...

 

[A-driver]

There are some DMs who have been doing the job five minutes but don't like it so go into management and others who have been driving years & years, absolutely no rule of thumb regarding experience. If you join later in life as a driver with a management background then you stand a good chance.

I'm not wishing to talk the role down as there are advantages to but generally a DM will work more hours for less money than a driver (no overtime pay, on call for 24-48hr periods etc) and they are generally dumped on more by management.

I would argue the above point that you need a decent SoL record as I can think of a fair few who became managers as the company wanted them off driving due to SoL etc!

 

[LBSCR Times]

With FCC they are the 1st Line On Call for Operations, though they actually work shift work 24/7, with one being on duty all the time.

 

[Pumbaa]

With FCC they are the 1st Line On Call for Operations, though they actually work shift work 24/7, with one being on duty all the time.

That sounds about right for every TOC to be honest.

 

[A-driver]

That sounds about right for every TOC to be honest.

Most have DMs on call 24/7 but FCC used to have them in at office hours. Last year or so they changed their contracts so they now work shifts aswell so there is always one or 2 actually on railway premises somewhere on the network 24/7 rather than being a phone call away. Didn't go down with those who became managers to get away from shift work!

 

[scotraildriver]

I would argue the above point that you need a decent SoL record as I can think of a fair few who became managers as the company wanted them off driving due to SoL etc!

the driver of this train is now a traincrew manager!



http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?sa=X...hBwwAA&iact=rc&dur=629&page=1&start=0&ndsp=18

 

[Will.C]

Thanks for all the replies

you'll have to excuse me but what is SoL? Also would Production Manager be another term for DM?

 

[LBSCR Times]

Thanks for all the replies

you'll have to excuse me but what is SoL? Also would Production Manager be another term for DM?

SoL refers to Safety of the Line normally.
No, a Production Manager is normally a glorified Train Crew Supervisor, with added manager responsibilities.
FCC call their TCS 'Driver Resource Manager'.
There is one located at Bedford, 24/7, who has responsibilities for all Thameslink route drivers.

 

[A-driver]

Sol is safety of the line (driving incidents basically).
A production manager is normally more of a foreman than a DM. You book on with them and they sort out rostering alteration etc. , they know little about train driving (so similar to DMs in that respect (joke))

 

[Will.C]

Cheers guys

So as a DM do you not actually do much driving then? Just a couple of turns a week to keep you refreshed on route knowledge?

 

[A-driver]

Cheers guys

So as a DM do you not actually do much driving then? Just a couple of turns a week to keep you refreshed on route knowledge?

Not even that. DMs don't do any regular driving. The only time they would actually drive trains in regular service is during times of industrial action. The rest of the service is covered by the driving grade. They should keep up road knowledge etc as part of their job but can go out and take a driver off a train if they want a drive themselves.

They spend most 'on track' time sitting next to drivers for assessments/ride outs, passing out new drivers, investigating incidents, dealing with emergencies such as fatalities and train evacuations and a lot of their time at meetings, classroom assessments and doing paperwork. They arnt actually drivers but a seperate grade.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Sol is safety of the line (driving incidents basically).
A production manager is normally more of a foreman than a DM. You book on with them and they sort out rostering alteration etc. , they know little about train driving (so similar to DMs in that respect (joke))

Don't joke......
Southern have CM's, Competency Managers, who can take drivers off track after an operational incident, but are not even qualified to drive and so cannot relieve a driver in an emergency!

 

[A-driver]

Don't joke......

Southern have CM's, Competency Managers, who can take drivers off track after an operational incident, but are not even qualified to drive and so cannot relieve a driver in an emergency!

Those are line managers rather than competency managers but yes-that is worryingly true!

 

[Will.C]

Not even that. DMs don't do any regular driving. The only time they would actually drive trains in regular service is during times of industrial action. The rest of the service is covered by the driving grade. They should keep up road knowledge etc as part of their job but can go out and take a driver off a train if they want a drive themselves.

They spend most 'on track' time sitting next to drivers for assessments/ride outs, passing out new drivers, investigating incidents, dealing with emergencies such as fatalities and train evacuations and a lot of their time at meetings, classroom assessments and doing paperwork. They aren't actually drivers but a seperate grade.

Is this seen as a promotion within the industry? From what has been said in this thread they don't earn as much as drivers? Can they be held accountable for their drivers mistakes?
Im guessing they're not part of the Drivers Union if they have to drive during industrial action?

 

[JB25]

There are currently 4 DMs at my depot, none have been train drivers before.

 

[A-driver]

Is this seen as a promotion within the industry? From what has been said in this thread they don't earn as much as drivers? Can they be held accountable for their drivers mistakes?
Im guessing they're not part of the Drivers Union if they have to drive during industrial action?

Sme are ASLEF, it's a debatable point with many saying they shouldn't be allowed to join. Most DMs are TSSA.

As for a promotion, depends really what you define as a promotion. Technically it is but it's kind of a different job. They are on a higher salary so that boosts your pension but as I said, they work more hours generally and don't get the overtime on tap that drivers do.

They can be held accountable for drivers mistakes in certain circumstances (generally they tend to get the blame for everything as they are an easy target...) but it's part of the reason there is so much paperwork. We have to sign for absolutely everything to deflect blame onto us from them etc.

 

[Will.C]

Thanks A-driver, sounds like they get a tough time from management above them.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Thanks A-driver, sounds like they get a tough time from management above them.

Depending on the company, most junior management do!
There aren't many managers that get paid overtime, Control Managers can be the exception, but even then, unless you work for Network Rail, that can often be at a flat / fixed rate.

 

[RollerCoaster]

There are currently 4 DMs at my depot, none have been train drivers before.

Is that Volks Railway at Brighton??

Impossible to be a DM (Driver Manager, Driver Standards Manager or Driver Team Manager) without ever being a driver or holding a key.
One of their main tasks is to take rookies off the street and take them on their Final Assessments, "without signing the route" this is impossible.
I agree that some grades up the chain have never been drivers, but not DMs. Unless "Walt" is running the company.

 

[welshjpc]

**Humour alert**

DMs turn down perfectly capable candidates for pedantic reasons.

**End of satirical observation**

Bitter & twisted as I failed my DM interview with FGW? Surprisingly not. One door closes, another opens and all that.

 

[A-driver]

Is that Volks Railway at Brighton??



Impossible to be a DM (Driver Manager, Driver Standards Manager or Driver Team Manager) without ever being a driver or holding a key.

One of their main tasks is to take rookies off the street and take them on their Final Assessments, "without signing the route" this is impossible.

I agree that some grades up the chain have never been drivers, but not DMs. Unless "Walt" is running the company.

Southern no linger have DMs. They now have competency assessors who roam the network and do any DM tasks which are 'on track'. Drivers are not allocated to these people so there are far less of them than there would be DMs. They will do all the downloads, ride outs, assessments, deal with incidents etc and are on call.

Once they have done assessments/downloads etc they pass them onto a relevant line manager.

A line manager is what is being discussed here. They don't need any kind of driving competency or experience (some are ex DMs and keep their key by driving in their own time) but many are off the street and being a driver line manager is their first rail industry job. They mainly deal with the clerical side of the DM job. Drivers are allocated to a LM like they would be to a DM and the LM will discuss assessments/downloads with them.

The LMs who are being discussed won't pass drivers out for driving, all they will have to do with it will be to oversee the paperwork has been done, route card signed and various 'customer service' talks etc.

 

[RollerCoaster]

Just W T Actual F!

Competency managers that haven't even had OO Hornby loco to drive :roll:

Heaven help us all and when you lot join GN & FCC, they can leave those bloody ridiculous ideas back South of the Thames.
I'll have a tenner on some of them being pedantic and a touch sneaky, like Traffic Cops!

 

[KA4C]

There are currently 4 DMs at my depot, none have been train drivers before.

Bloody hell!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not wishing to talk the role down as there are advantages to but generally a DM will work more hours for less money than a driver (no overtime pay, on call for 24-48hr periods etc) and they are generally dumped on more by management.

That is about it, if any driver said that they wanted to go for a DM type role, I'd send em for a medical
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks for all the replies

you'll have to excuse me but what is SoL? Also would Production Manager be another term for DM?

It can be

Sol, safety of the line incident

 

[JB25]

In Southern the decision was taken a couple of years ago to split the DM role up into DLMs (Driver Line Managers) who deal with day to day Admin, sickness records etc, and CDMs (Competency Development Managers), the ones who go out with drivers after incidents, go over incidents, and do ride out assessments etc.

At my depot I have a designated DLM and a designated CDM, although any CDM can come out and assess. I have had three ride outs since I passed out, only one with my designated CDM.

 

[plastictaffy]

Is that Volks Railway at Brighton??

Impossible to be a DM (Driver Manager, Driver Standards Manager or Driver Team Manager) without ever being a driver or holding a key.
One of their main tasks is to take rookies off the street and take them on their Final Assessments, "without signing the route" this is impossible.
I agree that some grades up the chain have never been drivers, but not DMs. Unless "Walt" is running the company.

One of our guys was a DM, he never had a key. At my TOC, there's no inbetweeny for doing the paperwork, you're either a DM or you're not.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Don't joke......
Southern have CM's, Competency Managers, who can take drivers off track after an operational incident, but are not even qualified to drive and so cannot relieve a driver in an emergency!

How does their pay compare to that of a regular driver?

 

[ComUtoR]

https://www.southernrailwaycareers....D52486151436C627476726C4B63416779374968343347

No salary mentioned.

From the Job Description pdf off the website

KNOWLEDGE (Training can be given)

• Knowledge and application of relevant sections of the Southern Safety Management System/Standards.
• Knowledge and competence in all rules and standards applicable to train operation on Network Rail controlled infrastructure and their application is required.
• Competence in Personal Track Safety (PTS).
• Competent to investigate accidents and incidents with the objective of identifying immediate and basic underlying causes and make associated recommendations to prevent re-occurrence.
• A1/A2 & L12 or equivalent, Nationally recognised competence assessment and coaching qualification.
• Root Cause Investigation and interview techniques.
• Excellent interviewing skills and techniques
• Competent to act as TOLO
SKILLS
Must have at least 1 years experience in operational safety critical activities.
Competent to work either as a conductor or train dispatcher
Have the ability to train as a shunter and shunt driver to drive both diesel and electric forms of traction and be fully route competent in all sidings and depots operated by Southern.


EXPERIENCE

Must have a minimum of 2 years experience in Railway Operations


Its still a qualified position and needs to be knowledgeable. If they are rules + traction competent its a short step to being a driver. Other than driving on the main line they are very qualified.

Any reasons given why they don't get the final driving qualification ? It looks like a minor step to take as its just driving hrs and route knowledge left for them to do :/

 

[BravoGolfMike]

With respect, there is a big difference between being rules qualified and being a competent driver. It is depressing how someone who cannot do the job and has the benefit of a warm comfy armchair and the comforting blanket of hindsight can pass judgement on those who actually have to do the damn job day in day out.

"I have no idea how to do your job, but my book says you're doing it wrong."

 

[LBSCR Times]

https://www.southernrailwaycareers....D52486151436C627476726C4B63416779374968343347

Note that whilst it says Non-Driver, it is also first line Ops On-Call.
This is why when one of them is on-call, they cannot relieve a driver, or move a train in an emergency, such as the middle of the night.......