Driver Uniforms

[Pat1105]

Know how you feel. It's not a reflection on the attitude of the individual (and perhaps their skills). It's about professionalism and giving your customer confidence.

Although this may seem very generalised, but I often find that those who aren’t in uniform have poorer driving skills than those who are.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Although this may seem very generalised, but I often find that those who aren’t in uniform have poorer driving skills than those who are.

Taking a balanced view, it is true that not wearing a uniform doesn't preclude you from being a skilled individual in whatever walk of life, and of course, the reverse is true. However, it is perhaps true that there is a relationship between presentation standards and performance, reflecting the difference between correlation and causation!!

Businesses recognise that this is about providing assurance and confidence to the customer. Passengers can identify the driver, they can be assured they are professional etc. Even the Diamond job adverts recognise that you should be "smart in appearance" and there must be a reason why bus operators are spending £100-150 a head on uniforms for customer facing staff.

I do accept that, for small firms where the same driver picks up the same passengers in the same Optare Solo, that they wear a uniform is probably less important but those are more exceptional than the norm.

 

[richardjones21]

Taking a balanced view, it is true that not wearing a uniform doesn't preclude you from being a skilled individual in whatever walk of life, and of course, the reverse is true. However, it is perhaps true that there is a relationship between presentation standards and performance, reflecting the difference between correlation and causation!!

Businesses recognise that this is about providing assurance and confidence to the customer. Passengers can identify the driver, they can be assured they are professional etc. Even the Diamond job adverts recognise that you should be "smart in appearance" and there must be a reason why bus operators are spending £100-150 a head on uniforms for customer facing staff.

I do accept that, for small firms where the same driver picks up the same passengers in the same Optare Solo, that they wear a uniform is probably less important but those are more exceptional than the norm.

Well as for presentation standards and performance levels in my own personal experience I have never lost a case in 24 years at an HMRC tribunal against my suited and smart so called professional adversarys food for thought perhaps.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well as for presentation standards and performance levels in my own personal experience I have never lost a case in 24 years at an HMRC tribunal against my suited and smart so called professional adversarys food for thought perhaps.

As has been said, not wearing a uniform does not preclude someone having professional skills.

However, as is clear, TfWM clearly have a different view to yourself by insisting "All drivers must be provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

I'm sure that despite your wealth of professional skills, you wouldn't represent a client wearing a chicken suit.

 

[richardjones21]

As has been said, not wearing a uniform does not preclude someone having professional skills.

However, as is clear, TfWM clearly have a different view to yourself by insisting "All drivers must be provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

I'm sure that despite your wealth of professional skills, you wouldn't represent a client wearing a chicken suit.

Funny you should say that but answer is yes one major client hires out cocktail barmen in costumes such as you suggest for hen parties etc..

As I am sure you have never attended the meetings I have attended at WMCA you have no basis to suggest my private & personal views are different to TfWM otherwise under our code of ethics I would not be allowed to act in any way contrary to the perimeters set by the authority

My original point stands @TheGrandWazoo the driver you witnessed on one of your few journeys on Diamond Bus in Willenhall was acceptably attired at the time in the manor of quality partnership set and agreed by the operators & TfWM. My personal opinions and my standards of professionalism continue to be acceptable to the WMCA Bus Alliance despite your comments.

 

[Pat1105]

My original point stands @TheGrandWazoo the driver you witnessed on one of your few journeys on Diamond Bus in Willenhall was acceptably attired at the time in the manor of quality partnership set and agreed by the operators & TfWM. My personal opinions and my standards of professionalism continue to be acceptable to the WMCA Bus Alliance despite your comments.

But the driver was wearing an Arriva uniform. Diamond only acquired a very small part of Arriva’s operation. They didn’t acquire the Arriva brand. Regardless whether Diamond took over Wednesfield, the driver was still wearing an incorrect uniform. We don’t know whether he transferred to Diamond from Wednesfield or whether he transferred from another depot such as Cannock or Telford. If he had transferred from Wednesfield, he should have received the correct Rotala uniform, as they took over Wednesfield 3 years ago. This shows a very poor attitude from Rotala as it seems they think it is acceptable to have a driver in incorrect uniform.

On another note, footwear is an important part of the uniform. I once saw a Diamond driver (no surprise there) wearing luminous green trainers, as well as his non company issue red hoodie driving my 229. It rather spoiled the look of the uniform and looked quite scruffy. Some operators, such as NX, issue drivers with black safety shoes. I think this is a sensible idea, as it is not only protective clothing but it also looks smart and promotes a professional appearance.

 

[richardjones21]

But the driver was wearing an Arriva uniform. Diamond only acquired a very small part of Arriva’s operation. They didn’t acquire the Arriva brand. Regardless whether Diamond took over Wednesfield, the driver was still wearing an incorrect uniform. We don’t know whether he transferred to Diamond from Wednesfield or whether he transferred from another depot such as Cannock or Telford. If he had transferred from Wednesfield, he should have received the correct Rotala uniform, as they took over Wednesfield 3 years ago. This shows a very poor attitude from Rotala as it seems they think it is acceptable to have a driver in incorrect uniform.

On another note, footwear is an important part of the uniform. I once saw a Diamond driver (no surprise there) wearing luminous green trainers, as well as his non company issue red hoodie driving my 229. It rather spoiled the look of the uniform and looked quite scruffy. Some operators, such as NX, issue drivers with black safety shoes. I think this is a sensible idea, as it is not only protective clothing but it also looks smart and promotes a professional appearance.

A question has been put to Mr Dunn, the MD of Diamond Bus Limited, on this very subject on WM BUS FORUMS.

He is far better qualified than me to answer this question once and for all & I will post his response in due course

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Funny you should say that but answer is yes one major client hires out cocktail barmen in costumes such as you suggest for hen parties etc..

As I am sure you have never attended the meetings I have attended at WMCA you have no basis to suggest my private & personal views are different to TfWM otherwise under our code of ethics I would not be allowed to act in any way contrary to the perimeters set by the authority

My original point stands @TheGrandWazoo the driver you witnessed on one of your few journeys on Diamond Bus in Willenhall was acceptably attired at the time in the manor of quality partnership set and agreed by the operators & TfWM. My personal opinions and my standards of professionalism continue to be acceptable to the WMCA Bus Alliance despite your comments.

Whether a client hires out such costumes, one might suggest that you haven't worn one in a tribunal?

Evidently, TfWM is of the view that they feel that are important hence it being enshrined in the AQPS viz "All drivers must be provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance." That a driver was driving a Diamond vehicle in an Arriva uniform is appropriate is doubtful.

I haven't detailed how many or few journeys I've made on Diamond, and neither have I questioned your standards of professionalism.

 

[duncombec]

My original point stands @TheGrandWazoo the driver you witnessed on one of your few journeys on Diamond Bus in Willenhall was acceptably attired at the time in the manor of quality partnership set and agreed by the operators & TfWM. My personal opinions and my standards of professionalism continue to be acceptable to the WMCA Bus Alliance despite your comments.

And here's the point. If you consider their standards acceptable, and don't raise this at the Bus Passenger Champions meetings, how are WMCA necessarily going to know about it? Perhaps if TheGrandWazoo, or Pat1105 also attended the meetings and raised the issue, WMCA might take a different view.

Not adhering to one element of the AQPS - that of uniforms - might just encourage other parties to take a similar approach to other provisions. What's to stop NXWM disregarding timekeeping stipulations, for example, if they can point to inappropriate uniform worn by Diamond?

Speaking purely hypothetically, would you deem it acceptable for an NXWM driver to wear a Diamond uniform, for example, because they were "still professionally dressed"?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

On another note, footwear is an important part of the uniform. I once saw a Diamond driver (no surprise there) wearing luminous green trainers, as well as his non company issue red hoodie driving my 229. It rather spoiled the look of the uniform and looked quite scruffy. Some operators, such as NX, issue drivers with black safety shoes. I think this is a sensible idea, as it is not only protective clothing but it also looks smart and promotes a professional appearance.

The requirement for safety shoes is commonplace in the transport industry but it is dependent on the individual risk assessments of each employer. Should they identify a requirement for PPE, that must then be provided by the employer.

 

[richardjones21]

And here's the point. If you consider their standards acceptable, and don't raise this at the Bus Passenger Champions meetings, how are WMCA necessarily going to know about it? Perhaps if TheGrandWazoo, or Pat1105 also attended the meetings and raised the issue, WMCA might take a different view.

Not adhering to one element of the AQPS - that of uniforms - might just encourage other parties to take a similar approach to other provisions. What's to stop NXWM disregarding timekeeping stipulations, for example, if they can point to inappropriate uniform worn by Diamond?

Speaking purely hypothetically, would you deem it acceptable for an NXWM driver to wear a Diamond uniform, for example, because they were "still professionally dressed"?

No because the Wednesfield operations of Arriva have been purchased by Diamond Bus Limited whilst a driver wearing an uniform of West Midlands Travel Limited would be totally unacceptable as there is no ownership connection.

In normal circumstances The West Midlands Bus Alliance holds regular public meetings across The West Midlands County where members of the public can raise any question they wish to the operators, TfWM, WMCA & other key stakeholders. Once these meetings resume I will post the dates on this forum.

The Network West Midlands website also contains the many ways members of the public can engage with Transport for West Midlands.

 

[Pat1105]

The requirement for safety shoes is commonplace in the transport industry but it is dependent on the individual risk assessments of each employer. Should they identify a requirement for PPE, that must then be provided by the employer.

I don’t often see drivers wearing them, instead wearing a pair of their own choice, but it does show that the operator has standards in terms of the type of footwear drivers should be wearing.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don’t often see drivers wearing them, instead wearing a pair of their own choice, but it does show that the operator has standards in terms of the type of footwear drivers should be wearing.

More prevalent in the freight industry tbf

 

[philthetube]

But the driver was wearing an Arriva uniform. Diamond only acquired a very small part of Arriva’s operation. They didn’t acquire the Arriva brand. Regardless whether Diamond took over Wednesfield, the driver was still wearing an incorrect uniform. We don’t know whether he transferred to Diamond from Wednesfield or whether he transferred from another depot such as Cannock or Telford. If he had transferred from Wednesfield, he should have received the correct Rotala uniform, as they took over Wednesfield 3 years ago. This shows a very poor attitude from Rotala as it seems they think it is acceptable to have a driver in incorrect uniform.

On another note, footwear is an important part of the uniform. I once saw a Diamond driver (no surprise there) wearing luminous green trainers, as well as his non company issue red hoodie driving my 229. It rather spoiled the look of the uniform and looked quite scruffy. Some operators, such as NX, issue drivers with black safety shoes. I think this is a sensible idea, as it is not only protective clothing but it also looks smart and promotes a professional appearance.

If Diamond have provided the driver with a uniform to wear, then there is an argument, if not the driver may wear what he likes.

Maybe Arriva should look at retrieving uniform from departing staff though.

 

[Geordie driver]

They have us genuine doctor Marten's, but with a steel toe cap, new pair every year. Not very suitable for driving oddly.

 

[Busaholic]

Having grown up in the London Transport land of the 1950s and 1960s I always had an expectation of how a driver (or conductor, for that matter) dressed, even the younger ones in the '60s who began to push the limits but never broke them. For instance, although by that time drivers were permitted to drive in (smart) shirtsleeves no conductor was allowed this luxury, and I remember my shock at seeing a London conductor jacketless for the first time in the late '70s or early '80s.

Down here in Cornwall, in First land, I got used to seeing drivers wearing their hi-viz jackets when driving. but never felt it gave the best impression of the company, so I was glad to read an interview in CBW a few years ago with a First high-up who agreed with me on this, and I have to say these days it's a lot less prevalent.

 

[Pat1105]

If Diamond have provided the driver with a uniform to wear, then there is an argument, if not the driver may wear what he likes.

Maybe Arriva should look at retrieving uniform from departing staff though.

Some companies require you to give the uniform back when you leave.

Down here in Cornwall, in First land, I got used to seeing drivers wearing their hi-viz jackets when driving. but never felt it gave the best impression of the company, so I was glad to read an interview in CBW a few years ago with a First high-up who agreed with me on this, and I have to say these days it's a lot less prevalent.

Arriva certainly has a policy where you shouldn’t drive wearing a hi viz.

 

[Pat1105]

A question has been put to Mr Dunn, the MD of Diamond Bus Limited, on this very subject on WM BUS FORUMS.

He is far better qualified than me to answer this question once and for all & I will post his response in due course

Yes, it was me who posted the question.

 

[richardjones21]

They have us genuine doctor Marten's, but with a steel toe cap, new pair every year. Not very suitable for driving oddly.

I was given a pair of Size 10 Doc Martens's with a steel top cap at Midland Red West & are still wearing them 24 years later to do the garden in.

 

[Pat1105]

I was given a pair of Size 10 Doc Martens's with a steel top cap at Midland Red West & are still wearing them 24 years later to do the garden in.

I suppose this proves the point that investing in quality uniform, rather than picking the cheapest, can make all the difference in terms of lifespan. It also can be put down to how drivers look after it.

 

[Geordie driver]

I was given a pair of Size 10 Doc Martens's with a steel top cap at Midland Red West & are still wearing them 24 years later to do the garden in.

We got a new pair every year and the old ones were still fine, strange as the were tight as chuff in other ways. I used to sell mine.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We got a new pair every year and the old ones were still fine, strange as the were tight as chuff in other ways. I used to sell mine.

Still got plenty of corporate clothing. Still got my overalls acquired in 1999, used for decorating

 

[richardjones21]

I suppose this proves the point that investing in quality uniform, rather than picking the cheapest, can make all the difference in terms of lifespan. It also can be put down to how drivers look after it.

I can assure you I do not wear these to WMCA meetings @Pat1105 or on Diamond Bus after 24 years they are purely for keeping my toes attached when using the hover mower now!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We got a new pair every year and the old ones were still fine, strange as the were tight as chuff in other ways. I used to sell mine.

My late father wasn't as lucky but did a good trade in dry cleaning tokens that were issued FOC for ensuring his uniform was pristine.

 

[vlad]

As has been said, not wearing a uniform does not preclude someone having professional skills.

However, as is clear, TfWM clearly have a different view to yourself by insisting "All drivers must be provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

I'm sure that despite your wealth of professional skills, you wouldn't represent a client wearing a chicken suit.

I'm not going to name the bus company but I've seen its drivers wearing Father Christmas costumes towards the end of the year. That does give the impression Mr Claus has had to take another job to make ends meet. Perhaps he should just reduce the price of gifts by 5% instead.

 

[GusB]

I'm not going to name the bus company but I've seen its drivers wearing Father Christmas costumes towards the end of the year. That does give the impression Mr Claus has had to take another job to make ends meet. Perhaps he should just reduce the price of gifts by 5% instead.

Stagecoach Bluebird often has drivers in santa suits/hats etc. It's no different to the nonsense you get in shops at that time of the year (bah, humbug) and if it brightens up someone's day then I don't see the harm. Anyhow, perhaps this is a discussion best left out completely until nearer the time

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not going to name the bus company but I've seen its drivers wearing Father Christmas costumes towards the end of the year. That does give the impression Mr Claus has had to take another job to make ends meet. Perhaps he should just reduce the price of gifts by 5% instead.

I don't think anyone can begrudge the Christmas ones or perhaps other charidee ones (like Children in Need). People recognise the significance etc.

However, the dirty t-shirt and tracky bottoms isn't exactly the best.

 

[Busaholic]

I don't think anyone can begrudge the Christmas ones or perhaps other charidee ones (like Children in Need). People recognise the significance etc.

However, the dirty t-shirt and tracky bottoms isn't exactly the best.

When I'd only just passed my driving test, I went round a bend in the road to find a huge green bus bearing down on me driven by Father Christmas: it did my confidence no good at all! In those days, Father Christmas had been confined to department stores and climbing down people's chimneys.

 

[Pat1105]

I'm not going to name the bus company but I've seen its drivers wearing Father Christmas costumes towards the end of the year. That does give the impression Mr Claus has had to take another job to make ends meet. Perhaps he should just reduce the price of gifts by 5% instead.

Phil Anslow usually has a journey or two driven by Santa.

 

[richardjones21]

Phil Anslow usually has a journey or two driven by Santa.

Santa of course uses Diamond Bus as his preferred operator & can usually be found at wheel of the 4H in December.

However I am not sure if his red and white uniform meets TfWM specications.........