Driving high speed trains

[strange6]

If I was your typical Man Vic driver doing the local class 142 southport runs and I wanted to progress to long distance work on the high speed routes working for the likes of Virgin, what, if any, additional training and assesment would I have to go through apart from learning to control the new trains of course? How long would it take to complete usually?
And finally, for long distance routes, eg manchester to Edinburgh on TPE, would the driver be expected to know all of that route or just a certain section of it?
Cheers all

 

[MidnightFlyer]

And finally, for long distance routes, eg manchester to Edinburgh on TPE, would the driver be expected to know all of that route or just a certain section of it?
Cheers all

every last yard, line designations, speed limits, signalling control, local geography etc, but only for the routes they sign

 

[Pumbaa]

And finally, for long distance routes, eg manchester to Edinburgh on TPE, would the driver be expected to know all of that route or just a certain section of it?
Cheers all

Well that kinda depends where you were based. If you're a Manchester based driver, you only sign as far as Carlisle (some links). If you're Blackpool, you'll sign Edinburgh (some links). If you're one of the Glasgow crew, you'll sign as far South as Preston and the line from Carstairs to Edinburgh.

I know the VT workings much better than TPE, but as rule of thumb, Glasgow services are worked by Glasgow crews from Preston, and Edinburgh services worked by Glasgow crews from Carlisle to Edinburgh, sometimes from Preston. The Glasgow depot covers the ex-Freightliner turns on the Edinburgh runs. There is no depot at Edinburgh.

 

[strange6]

Well that kinda depends where you were based. If you're a Manchester based driver, you only sign as far as Carlisle (some links). If you're Preston, you'll sign Carlisle (some links). If you're one of the Glasgow crew, you'll sign as far South as Preston and the line from Carstairs to Edinburgh.

I know the VT workings much better than TPE, but as rule of thumb, Glasgow services are worked by Glasgow crews from Preston, and Edinburgh services worked by Glasgow crews from Carlisle to Edinburgh, sometimes from Preston. The Glasgow depot covers the ex-Freightliner turns on the Edinburgh runs. There is no depot at Edinburgh.

That's still a fair chunk of countryside to learn. I wonder if there are any specialist drivers who know a full long distance route from say, Manchester to Bournemouth

 

[Pumbaa]

That's still a fair chunk of countryside to learn. I wonder if there are any specialist drivers who know a full long distance route from say, Manchester to Bournemouth

Some links at New Street sign to Manchester and to Southampton, but not as far as Bournemouth.

Preston drivers for VT will sign London to Glasgow, Newcastle drivers for EC sign London to Edinburgh/Glasgow/Aberdeen/Inverness?, Serco men sign just about everywhere!

 

[driver9000]

Well that kinda depends where you were based. If you're a Manchester based driver, you only sign as far as Carlisle (some links). If you're Preston, you'll sign Carlisle (some links). If you're one of the Glasgow crew, you'll sign as far South as Preston and the line from Carstairs to Edinburgh.

I know the VT workings much better than TPE, but as rule of thumb, Glasgow services are worked by Glasgow crews from Preston, and Edinburgh services worked by Glasgow crews from Carlisle to Edinburgh, sometimes from Preston. The Glasgow depot covers the ex-Freightliner turns on the Edinburgh runs. There is no depot at Edinburgh.

There is no TPE depot at Preston. The nearest is at Blackpool North and one link does sign Edinburgh. The VT depot at Preston signs the WCML from Glasgow to Euston with diversions such as the GSW and S&C. They also sign Birmingham and Manchester.

A driver going from driving local passenger trains to express would be trained to drive at those speeds while being trained on the traction although I'm not sure if there if there is a specific 'high speed' course.

 

[Pumbaa]

There is no TPE depot at Preston.

Thank you for that! I remember reading about the possibility of putting one in to cover Edinburgh turns, but it would seem they just cover them from Glasgow and the one Blackpool link instead.

 

[driver9000]

There were plans which I believe have now been scrapped for now. I certainly haven't heard about them for a while.

There are a few Piccadilly drivers for TPE who also sign Edinburgh, I believe this is a small link of senior drivers one of which is an accquaintance of mine.

 

[Pumbaa]

I wasn't aware of that - thanks for the heads up. Cherry picking the routes eh?!

Is there still a base at Airport? Or has that been rolled into one Manchester base now (Piccadilly)?

 

[driver9000]

I wasn't aware of that - thanks for the heads up. Cherry picking the routes eh?!

Is there still a base at Airport? Or has that been rolled into one Manchester base now (Piccadilly)?

Yes, Airport depot is still open although it's work seems to be concentrated on workings 'over the hill' into Yorkshire.

 

[notadriver]

So the answer is no additional assessment. Just traction / route training. A qualified train driver is a qualified train driver no matter how fast or slow their train is.

 

[Bellwater]

Yes, Airport depot is still open although it's work seems to be concentrated on workings 'over the hill' into Yorkshire.

Pre-TPE Airport was a FNW Depot, when TPE was created they gained York, Hull and Diversions.

Their route card's one of the best in the company: Man Airport-Picc, Picc-Liverpool - York, Picc - Hull, Picc - Preston - Blackpool, Preston - Barrow,
Preston - Windermere.

 

[deltic1989]

A qualified train driver is a qualified train driver no matter how fast or slow their train is.

So is that the same for freight drivers then if they want to go to passenger for instence? may sound like a daft question but im trying to learn the ins and outs.

 

[Kneedown]

So the answer is no additional assessment. Just traction / route training.

There is formal assessment on traction and routes after training, both written and practical.
When i first moved from freight to passenger i had to wait a few months for a Sprinter course, but still drove a couple of loco hauled specials as i already signed 47's.
When we first got 170's we had to have a fair bit of driving at 100mph as up to then our fastest unit was the 90mph 158, and when i learnt HST's a couple of years ago it was a three week conversion course, one in the classroom and two out handling, including 110mph driving. Again, there was written, and practical assessment at the end of the course.
We are also formally assessed on absolutely everything every two years, with random OTMR downloads and rides out with a DM every so often in between.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So is that the same for freight drivers then if they want to go to passenger for instence? may sound like a daft question but im trying to learn the ins and outs.

If a freight driver wanted to go passenger, he would have to learn how to handle a passenger train, but nowadays this would normally be within the traction course itself.
Even when i was freight driver i had to have seperate training on Air braked, Vacuum braked and loose coupled trains, as well as the different traction types. All with practical and written assessment after training.

 

[notadriver]

Agreed definitely a traction / route assessment at the end - but it's not just because you're driving traction they goes faster is it? For example if a high speed driver First Great Western wanted to drive local slower trains in Manchester, he/she would need to be assessed on the route and traction in the same way as it would be if the other way around?

 

[Kneedown]

For example if a high speed driver First Great Western wanted to drive local slower trains in Manchester, he/she would need to be assessed on the route and traction in the same way as it would be if the other way around?

Absolutely yes.

 

[Safety365]

That's still a fair chunk of countryside to learn. I wonder if there are any specialist drivers who know a full long distance route from say, Manchester to Bournemouth

Some links at New Street sign to Manchester and to Southampton, but not as far as Bournemouth.

XC New Street Drivers do sign Bournemouth and Manchester.

 

[E&W Lucas]

So the answer is no additional assessment. Just traction / route training. A qualified train driver is a qualified train driver no matter how fast or slow their train is.

I'm also going to disagree with this. Having moved from long distance unit work to inter city myself, the process was:

Traction courses for each type required, incorporating train handling experience, followed by a theory & practical handling assessment on each.

Route learning as necessary.

Full competence assessment at the end of the process. Rules, traction, route, the lot. Not much different to passing out first time round.

Total time required was about 6 months. The process wouldn't be much different, whichever company you transferred to. The easiest way onto the inter city outfits is a a qualified driver from elsewhere. The likes of Virgin & east Coast do very little in the way of training from scratch these days. Even with qualified recruitment, competition is fierce.

 

[Pumbaa]

XC New Street Drivers do sign Bournemouth and Manchester.

Thanks for that - I'm assuming that'll be the top links then. I know Bournemouth only sign to New Street and Derby, nowhere else.

 

[notadriver]

I'm also going to disagree with this. Having moved from long distance unit work to inter city myself, the process was:

Traction courses for each type required, incorporating train handling experience, followed by a theory & practical handling assessment on each.

Route learning as necessary.

Full competence assessment at the end of the process. Rules, traction, route, the lot. Not much different to passing out first time round.

Total time required was about 6 months. The process wouldn't be much different, whichever company you transferred to. The easiest way onto the inter city outfits is a a qualified driver from elsewhere. The likes of Virgin & east Coast do very little in the way of training from scratch these days. Even with qualified recruitment, competition is fierce.

Of course you are right - i misworded what I wrote. Of course you need an assessment on traction, theory etc etc followed by a full competence assessment but as you said that process would be no different than if a high speed driver went elsewhere in the country to drive local suburban trains on routes and traction they didn't sign.

Perhaps though, it takes longer to become fully productive as a high speed driver compared with changing to work on local suburban stoppers?

 

[Safety365]

Thanks for that - I'm assuming that'll be the top links then. I know Bournemouth only sign to New Street and Derby, nowhere else.

From twitter user @Lambandflag (New St XC Driver)

We go to Bristol, bomo, manc, Nottingham, Cardiff, derby & loads of diversions.
We used to do above Plus: Liverpool, London padd & euston, Portsmouth, Brighton and Preston. Depots: Longsight, old oak, saltley, three bridges, oxley, Crewe, lovers walk, tyseley, etches park, Bristol bath road, st philips marsh, willesden.

Sounds like XC New St drivers used to have very enviable route knowledge that has since been significantly cut.

 

[Pumbaa]

Now I know who you are!!

Some links sign different cards. Top links sign further than Derby as well. Manchester drivers have a good card too, they sign to Reading, Bristol and Derby. I know ex-VT links now sign old CT-routes as well from New Street and had further distance work taken off their route cards post harmonisation, but I'm not sure if any have made the move the other way. Obviously their old route knowledge was slashed as the XC network shrank.

Liverpool VT sign Liverpool, London, Chester (either they didn't but now do or the other way round), Preston, Manchester and Birmingham/Wolves. Wolves and Crewe sign the same. Manchester sign those as well apart from Chester. Birmingham don't sign to Preston.

LM Crewe sign to Northampton - Bletchley (in the process of doing they've only just got to Northampton, till this Dec they only went to Rugby), Northampton - New Street, New St to Liverpool. LM New Street links sign XCity lines and to Northampton, as well as local electric services. Some higher links go to Lime Street.

Snow Hill crews I'm not familiar with, but also work the 170 routes out of New Street.

 

[RPM]

A clean or fairly clean record is also necessary. The intercity TOCs can afford to be choosy about who they take.

 

[Hydro]

Sounds like XC New St drivers used to have very enviable route knowledge that has since been significantly cut.

I was talking to one of our drivers t'other week who was formerly an Intercity/Virgin XC driver at New Street, his route knowledge was certainly very extensive; his traction knowledge read like a spotters notebook.