Driving well below the speed limit

[Lockwood]

This is nonsense. Firstly the third lane is an overtaking lane. If lanes 1 and 2 were clear, there was no reason for you to be in it. Secondly the national speed limit is the law. It is not for you to decide a suitable speed for the conditions, if that is in excess of the legal speed limit.

I refer you to the legislation I mentioned earlier.

Effectively "any vehicle being used for police, ambulance, or fire and rescue purposes may exceed the speed limit". And my training said to aim for the right lane where possible.


I was brought up with "mirror signal manoeuvre", then with "information position speed gear acceleration" as a general system, which the mirror signal position thingy would come under.

As I said before, driving is a team activity - making things easier for everyone else makes it easier for you. I watched someone today decide to cut straight across a mini roundabout in the village while there was lots of traffic everywhere. Might have shaved a couple of seconds of their journey, but it got in everyone else's way. Which meant everyone else was in their way, and it lost them time.

 

[Llanigraham]

I refer you to the legislation I mentioned earlier.

Effectively "any vehicle being used for police, ambulance, or fire and rescue purposes may exceed the speed limit". And my training said to aim for the right lane where possible.

I concur!
My blue light training with H & W Ambulance was to use the furthest right hand lane on a motorway or dual carriageway where possible.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I refer you to the legislation I mentioned earlier.

Effectively "any vehicle being used for police, ambulance, or fire and rescue purposes may exceed the speed limit". And my training said to aim for the right lane where possible.

In all fairness, your original post which @canary fan was replying to made no mention whatsoever towards driving and emergency vehicle or any associated legislation

 

[AM9]

I’m old school, but mirror-signal-manouevre still works for me. I wouldn’t dream of braking before indicating to turn, for example. It’s almost never necessary to brake when driving on a motorway, but I often come across the compulsive brakers, red lights for no reason, quite often in lane three.

Way back when I worked in NW london but lived in Hampshire, I had a metro 1.3, - not a speedy tourer, - just one step up from a city car. Every Friday my journey home took me from M25 J19 to M3 J5. Traffi was OK after joining the M3 but the M25 was inevitably like erm the M25 so often was, too much traffic to sustain any particular speed but I had plenty of opportunity to observe the difference in the flows in the three (or 4) lanes.
The offside lane would involve short spurts of 55-65mph, the brakes on for a 20-30 second standstill.
The nearside lane was the opposite, drifting along at 25-35 with frequent slowings down 5-10mph which by paying attention to the brake lights ahead, could be covered by dipping the clutch. The intermediate lanes made progress somewhere between the above extremes . Overall, there was little difference in total progress, but the slow lane was less stressful.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Way back when I worked in NW london but lived in Hampshire, I had a metro 1.3, - not a speedy tourer, - just one step up from a city car. Every Friday my journey home took me from M25 J19 to M3 J5. Traffi was OK after joining the M3 but the M25 was inevitably like erm the M25 so often was, too much traffic to sustain any particular speed but I had plenty of opportunity to observe the difference in the flows in the three (or 4) lanes.
The offside lane would involve short spurts of 55-65mph, the brakes on for a 20-30 second standstill.
The nearside lane was the opposite, drifting along at 25-35 with frequent slowings down 5-10mph which by paying attention to the brake lights ahead, could be covered by dipping the clutch. The intermediate lanes made progress somewhere between the above extremes . Overall, there was little difference in total progress, but the slow lane was less stressful.

On motorways I feel I have failed if I resort to the brake or even clutch.

No I don't mean I go crazy slow !.
But I can nearly always anticipate and use engine braking.

 

[AM9]

On motorways I feel I have failed if I resort to the brake or even clutch.

No I don't mean I go crazy slow !.
But I can nearly always anticipate and use engine braking.

Same here, when I visit family in Essex, I can go* from M25 J22 to J28 where the only brake appication is in the slip road onto the A12 despite there being bunched traffic doing 60-80 in the outside lane with attendant flashing of brake lights.

* There's been almost continuous traffic management in the last 5 years so not really practical at the moment.

 

[jfollows]

On motorways I feel I have failed if I resort to the brake or even clutch.

No I don't mean I go crazy slow !.
But I can nearly always anticipate and use engine braking.

Absolutely, I’m with you.
I can almost always anticipate and see ahead.
But I suspect many don’t do either.
It doesn’t mean I’m a “good” driver, but perhaps that I get some things right.

 

[Dr_Paul]

It's bad enough having all the main roads reduced to 20mph around here without one's being stuck behind someone who insists upon going at 15mph. And the only suitable stretch to overtake has two speed-traps, and very sensitive ones at that, along it.

When I was (a lot) younger I used to gets to and from work from a colleague who when going straight on at a roundabout would signal right then left at the exit. I’d forgotten about this until I was behind somdone doing the same thing last week.

Another roundabout annoyance on dual carriageways is people who always come out of the roundabout in the fast lane despite the near side being clear and then displaying glacial rates of acceleration

That's weird. When going straight on I signal left when going from the roundabout, but I'd only signal right were I actually turning right. Yet another annoyance on two-lane roundabouts are people who are in the left-hand lane and cut across the right-hand lane when on the roundabout and back into the left-hand lane on the following road. I was badly cut up by one of them (at Ewell, if I recall correctly); I gave him a good honk, but I doubt if he thought he'd done anything wrong.

Not far from me is a roundabout with two roads coming from the left into the main thoroughfare. If you wish to go along the second road and signals left too early, someone coming out of the first road will assume that you're turning into the first road and will pull out in front of you. If I'm going down the second road, I'll refrain from signalling left until I've passed the first road, thus making things safer. If drivers don't know the area that well, they'll probably not know this.

 

[Brent Goose]

I read that part of the criteria for the siting of speed cameras is where the limit is substantially less than the 85th percentile.

In terms of opportunist speed traps I remember one at the end of a long section of 50mph with average speed cameras on the A12 where the end coincided with the 3 lane section near Brentwood.

Way back when I worked in NW london but lived in Hampshire, I had a metro 1.3, - not a speedy tourer, - just one step up from a city car. Every Friday my journey home took me from M25 J19 to M3 J5. Traffi was OK after joining the M3 but the M25 was inevitably like erm the M25 so often was, too much traffic to sustain any particular speed but I had plenty of opportunity to observe the difference in the flows in the three (or 4) lanes.
The offside lane would involve short spurts of 55-65mph, the brakes on for a 20-30 second standstill.
The nearside lane was the opposite, drifting along at 25-35 with frequent slowings down 5-10mph which by paying attention to the brake lights ahead, could be covered by dipping the clutch. The intermediate lanes made progress somewhere between the above extremes . Overall, there was little difference in total progress, but the slow lane was less stressful.

My observation has been that the stop start of that nature is often caused by people pulling into the overtaking lane as they perceive that lane has a speed advantage causing the car behind to brake which then ‘ripples’ back.

 

[Trackman]

Has anyone ever seen a minimum speed limit sign? (Blue circle)
I must have in the years I have been driving.
It would be interesting to find out how many people have been booked for under speeding.

 

[Dr_Paul]

In terms of opportunist speed traps I remember one at the end of a long section of 50mph with average speed cameras on the A12 where the end coincided with the 3 lane section near Brentwood.

There are a couple of speed-traps near me at the bottom of quite steep hills; these were bad enough when the roads were 30mph, one really needs to watch the speedometer now they're 20mph. Some years back I was caught by a trap in Catford; it was sited just after a narrow road in the town centre (by the famous Catford Cat) widens out to twice the width, at a point where one tends to speed up, thinking that one is going well under the limit, an optical illusion -- and a sneaky trick on the part of the council.

Has anyone ever seen a minimum speed limit sign? (Blue circle) I must have in the years I have been driving. It would be interesting to find out how many people have been booked for under speeding.

I haven't seen one of those in a very long time. Are there any still in existence?

Back to the original topic, I was once travelling around the M25 at 70mph in the left-hand lane, the motorway, three lanes, was remarkably empty. I rapidly came up upon a bloke doing about 50mph, if that, in the middle lane. Rather than 'undertaking' him, I signalled and went across to the right-hand lane, passed him, and signalled and went back to the left-hand lane. Whether he got the message I don't know.

 

[Trackman]

I haven't seen one of those in a very long time. Are there any still in existence?

Quick google reveals Dartford and Kingsway (Liverpool) tunnel have them, could be others. I’ve driven through both of them, still cannot remember the signs. Min speed is 10 MPH.

 

[Bald Rick]

Has anyone ever seen a minimum speed limit sign? (Blue circle)

Dartford Tunnel is the only place I remember seeing them. Although I might put some up on the 1081!

 

[bramling]

I concur!
My blue light training with H & W Ambulance was to use the furthest right hand lane on a motorway or dual carriageway where possible.

To be honest, I find sitting in the right-hand-most lane on the motorway is easiest, and from experience I tend to feel safer here as generally you can focus more on what people on the left are doing, without having to worry about the right. I am very attentive to people approaching behind though.

Round here if you want to drive at or above 70 mph then realistically for most of the day you’re going to be in the right-most lane anyway.

 

[MotCO]

I’m old school, but mirror-signal-manouevre still works for me.

On motorways and dual carriageways, I'm more of a mirror-look over shoulder-signal-manoeuvre type of person, because I'm am always concerned that someone will be moving from lane 3 to 2 as I am moving from lane 1 to 2.

Slightly off-topic, but I travelled from J5 - J6 on the M25 today, and the four lanes have now been restored after many months, but the 50mph speed limit has been retained. Anyone know the reason for this? I hope this is only temporary.

 

[bspahh]

To be honest, I find sitting in the right-hand-most lane on the motorway is easiest, and from experience I tend to feel safer here as generally you can focus more on what people on the left are doing, without having to worry about the right. I am very attentive to people approaching behind though.

Round here if you want to drive at or above 70 mph then realistically for most of the day you’re going to be in the right-most lane anyway.

I normally set my cruise control at a GPS 70mph (74mph on my speedometer). Keeping an eye on traffic in front and behind keeps me alert.

As a rule of thumb, if the speed of traffic in the 3rd lane drops below 56mph, I'll move into the 1st lane.

When traffic bunches in the 3rd lane, the concertina effect can mean it ends up at a standstill. That loses a lot more in the average speed than you gain by going fast for a bit.

Also if there is an unexpected big delay ahead, when you get to a junction, more traffic is likely to leave than will join.

In the 1st and 2nd lanes, you get to trundle along with bigger gaps, with a greater proportion of professional drivers.

 

[Lockwood]

Dartford Tunnel is the only place I remember seeing them. Although I might put some up on the 1081!

Part of me wants to say Blackwall as well?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Has anyone ever seen a minimum speed limit sign? (Blue circle)
I must have in the years I have been driving.
It would be interesting to find out how many people have been booked for under speeding.

Before I learnt to drive (1978) I always recalled the unusual minimum speed limit signs as you go down into the Dartford tunnel. I suppose they are still there. Back then (maybe before 1970) it was ONE bi-directional tunnel !.

On motorways and dual carriageways, I'm more of a mirror-look over shoulder-signal-manoeuvre type of person, because I'm am always concerned that someone will be moving from lane 3 to 2 as I am moving from lane 1 to 2.

Slightly off-topic, but I travelled from J5 - J6 on the M25 today, and the four lanes have now been restored after many months, but the 50mph speed limit has been retained. Anyone know the reason for this? I hope this is only temporary.

I bet it ends up like the M4 past Newport. The variable speed limit signs there were always showing 50mph and now there are permanent 50mph signs. It is a bottleneck through the Newport tunnels and of course probably suffers more now there is no queue for the defunct Severn crossing tolls.

 

[styles]

So fun day today, I actually experienced a driver being pulled over (presumably) for doing 30mph on a clear 60mph stretch - I was downshifting to overtake but the blues and twos put me off it!

I did a check of their tax and MOT after and all seems in order so I can only assume their speed was the trigger for a pull over.

Good job on the plod buffering us if so!

It's possible they weren't pulled up and/or told off for their low speed so only semi-wins.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yet another annoyance on two-lane roundabouts are people who are in the left-hand lane and cut across the right-hand lane when on the roundabout and back into the left-hand lane on the following road. I was badly cut up by one of them (at Ewell, if I recall correctly); I gave him a good honk, but I doubt if he thought he'd done anything wrong.

Let me guess... Beggar's Hill roundabout on the A240...?

 

[Bald Rick]

Before I learnt to drive (1978) I always recalled the unusual minimum speed limit signs as you go down into the Dartford tunnel. I suppose they are still there. Back then (maybe before 1970) it was ONE bi-directional tunnel !.

The east tunnel opened in 1980, I remember a family trip to go and drive through this modern wonder of the world!

 

[Brent Goose]

With the tolls gone I’m unclear why the 50 limit (enforced by average speed camera) still exists on the clockwise crossing

 

[jon0844]

Has anyone ever seen a minimum speed limit sign? (Blue circle)
I must have in the years I have been driving.
It would be interesting to find out how many people have been booked for under speeding.

I think I've only ever seen them in tunnels.

 

[AM9]

I read that part of the criteria for the siting of speed cameras is where the limit is substantially less than the 85th percentile.

In terms of opportunist speed traps I remember one at the end of a long section of 50mph with average speed cameras on the A12 where the end coincided with the 3 lane section near Brentwood.



My observation has been that the stop start of that nature is often caused by people pulling into the overtaking lane as they perceive that lane has a speed advantage causing the car behind to brake which then ‘ripples’ back.

I think the mein cause of peristaltic progress is the difference between drivers ideas of 'safe' braking distance, together with a dose of impatience by some. That also explains the difference between the lanes' bunching which is consistently worse the further out the lane is.

 

[Ted633]

Slightly off-topic, but I travelled from J5 - J6 on the M25 today, and the four lanes have now been restored after many months, but the 50mph speed limit has been retained. Anyone know the reason for this? I hope this is only temporary.

Expect it is to do with the technology for detecting blocked lanes isn't yet fully back up and running.

The M23 was the same a few years back when it was upgraded to all lane running. All the lanes were open and clear of cones, yet the 50 remained for a month or so while the cameras were being setup/tested.

 

[Cowley]

Back to the original topic, I was once travelling around the M25 at 70mph in the left-hand lane, the motorway, three lanes, was remarkably empty. I rapidly came up upon a bloke doing about 50mph, if that, in the middle lane. Rather than 'undertaking' him, I signalled and went across to the right-hand lane, passed him, and signalled and went back to the left-hand lane. Whether he got the message I don't know.

I tend to do that myself rather than undertake, but I won’t do it in a teachy way (not saying that you do either by the way).

If I’ve overtaken a middle lane dawdler I’ll indicate once to go back into the lane in front of them and then do it as a separate manoeuvre to go back into the 1st lane rather than zoom across all three. It just feels safer.

It’s remarkable how unaware and nervous people can be on motorways/dual carriageways though. I once started coming up behind a gritting lorry on the M5 at night and it was in the middle lane spraying across the whole motorway. There was a car following it about three metres behind and the person driving it had their nose pressed up against the screen but they weren’t showing any intention of going around it.

The front of the car must have almost been down to bare metal by the time they got home.

 

[styles]

Up the A835 at 3am today. Somebody doing 35mph.

Bit too windy a road to overtake, at night, in the wet, so had to bide my time.

I was in no rush but I imagine some people en route to the ferry would make riskier maneuvers.

 

[MotCO]

Expect it is to do with the technology for detecting blocked lanes isn't yet fully back up and running.

The M23 was the same a few years back when it was upgraded to all lane running. All the lanes were open and clear of cones, yet the 50 remained for a month or so while the cameras were being setup/tested.

Yes, it is something to do with that. The Highways England website states https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/south-east/south-east-emergency-area-retrofit-programme/

M25 between junctions 5 and 7 and junctions 23 and 27 speed restrictions remain​

Although we'll remove much of the traffic management from these motorways, we'll maintain a 50mph speed restriction.


This is a safety measure while we test new technology and upgraded Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) system.


Testing ensures newly installed technology is working correctly. We can only do this when there are no roadworks and when all lanes of the motorway are open.


Upgrading SVD is separate to building the new emergency areas. We've delivered the projects side-by-side to minimise disruption.


You won’t see us doing this work. Once tests are complete, we'll increase speed to the national limit.

 

[Bald Rick]

Up the A835 at 3am today. Somebody doing 35mph.

Bit too windy a road to overtake, at night, in the wet, so had to bide my time.

I was in no rush but I imagine some people en route to the ferry would make riskier maneuvers.

Some of it is windy - some of it defintiely isn’t!

 

[styles]

Some of it is windy - some of it defintiely isn’t!

I made an overtake eventually, well before Ullapool, just not an ideal road for it in a lot of places.