Driving well below the speed limit

[Meerkat]

If I get an audi or whopper wagon behind me I go full on highway code. 47 mph, very deliberate movements, letting people out at junctions, anything just to upset them. Childish but I like it!

But if you do that then you are also Driving dangerously because you are letting them distract you, and making them angrier and more likely to do something rash.
I try to let them go by and have their accident somewhere else not involving me.

I followed a woman doing 40 in a 60, and continuing to do 40 in a 30 long after I had spotted the fluorescent jacket pointing something toward us…….she got pulled in by the copper.
Also had someone do that in front us and set off a speed camera after holding us up for miles - we laughed a lot.
And lastly on my country road commute an old guy was so enjoying holding me up, smirking in the rear view mirror all the time, that he failed to see the protruding branch that exploded his wing mirror all over the road. He didn’t seem interested in looking to see my reactions after that!

re drivers hitting the brakes at every corner…….I think this is often down to Waze etc - people who would normally stick to main roads are getting sent down side roads they don’t have the confidence for.

 

[Peter Sarf]

60mph limit, or national speed limit applies? I’ll drive at a speed appropriate to my immediate surroundings and prevailing conditions in terms of weather and light. I’m quite happy to do my 20 mile commute, which is mainly along a dual carriageway, at 55mph max. I won’t get there any quicker by driving at 70mph. My fuel economy is also improved. I’ll drive faster if I’m holding up other traffic, but on a dual carriageway most other vehicles can overtake, but if the road is quiet I see no need at all to hare along at 70mph.

Fuel economy. It has occurred to me that more people are feeling the pinch so perhaps more people are nursing their fuel consumption.

I certainly had a step change when I discovered the most economical speed in my Vauxhall Carlton was 65mph because this was the point at which the hydraulic transmission locks up. I quickly found motorway driving different. Doing 70mph (and a bit) was what i was used to. But stcking it on cruise control at 65mph often meant a lot more time struggling to get out of lane one into the next lane around lorries etc. I first thought it was because I was in lane one more but I think it was really the larger speed difference between myself and what I was trying to move into.

So I am thinking a slower driver who cannot cope will find getting into the second lane on a motorway hard and resort to cruising in that lane.

Do we need to accept that many people are not bright enough to cope with what we can cope with ?.
But does that mean they should be deprived of what is almost a basic human right ?.
There are degrees of course and some drivers just cannot possibly ever have passed their test.

I am quite happy to have not seen many people here saying 'it's a limit, not a target' which is, frankly, a myth/excuse and will not have been taught by any professional instructor. You must drive to the prevailing conditions so, sure, there are times you can't drive at the limit - but when you can, you should. You should also be able to determine those times when it's not safe to drive at the limit.

You can indeed fail a driving test and you could, although unlikely, get done for it if you were holding up other vehicles and potentially encouraging them to do something dangerous.

I see it on Facebook a lot, with people almost implying that those who dare go at the limit are the dangerous ones. No, it's the hesitant ones who - if they can't drive to the conditions of the road - perhaps shouldn't be driving as I'd be worried about what else they cannot do.

Having been taught to drive by a family member I then had a few professional lessons. First lesson and the instructor said well you can drive perfectly well BUT you must let me teach you to pass the test. Getting ready for my test the instructor took me down a road that was 40mph but surrounded by 30mph. He reminded me that many people fail there test on that very stretch of road. So it is a failure possibility.

Now driving slowly is always going to be annoying to anyone stuck behind them.
I can live with that frustration to a point BUT what worries me is why are they driving so slowly. Obviously there could be a hazard that I cannot see but also is the driver themselves going to be a hazard.

I have experienced drivers who hesitate because they are on an unfamiliar route. I always prefer to make a decision and stick with it - I can always turn round or preferably turn back out of a side turning I did not really need. But then I tend to be aware of what vehicles are around and behind me. Some other people are just staring straight ahead.

 

[jon0844]

As I said, you drive to the conditions and there will be times you will drive below the limit (e.g. country roads on bends) but ultimately your speed will adapt and you won't just be sat at a set speed, like you put cruise control on and then fell asleep.

 

[PaulJ]

But you said you wouldn’t get there any quicker. 3 mins is 10% of the journey - that sounds like it would be quicker!

I guess it depends on how you value your time. 3 minutes to me isn’t worth worrying about. I can relax in the car listening to my fave podcasts. I get improved fuel efficiency. My blood pressure goes down.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I guess it depends on how you value your time. 3 minutes to me isn’t worth worrying about. I can relax in the car listening to my fave podcasts. I get improved fuel efficiency. My blood pressure goes down.

Yes something to be said for just chill.

A friend of mine goes into a cavorting rant in a traffic jam. I just listen to the radio and try to strike up a conversation. Damn crowded planet .

 

[bramling]

Isn't that pretty much exactly what happens with some of the more aggressive professional driving policies now?

Not really, train drivers are generally expected to drive at the speed limit unless there’s a specific *reason* not to.

There’s plenty of potential reasons why a driver may be below the limit, including using judgement to coast or not to run early, but “I felt like driving slow” isn’t a reason, and nor is “I don’t feel competent driving at the speed limit”, and nor is “I don’t know what the speed limit is” - which I suspect are three common reasons why car drivers do it.

I guess it depends on how you value your time. 3 minutes to me isn’t worth worrying about. I can relax in the car listening to my fave podcasts. I get improved fuel efficiency. My blood pressure goes down.

For people who have to juggle time to fit stuff into their day, 3 minutes can be potentially quite valuable. For me, that could simply be 3 minutes where I can just chill and drink a bottle of water before getting out of the car at the end of the journey, that I might not have otherwise had time to do.

Why should I forego that just because of someone’s selfishness?

Fuel economy. It has occurred to me that more people are feeling the pinch so perhaps more people are nursing their fuel consumption.

I certainly had a step change when I discovered the most economical speed in my Vauxhall Carlton was 65mph because this was the point at which the hydraulic transmission locks up. I quickly found motorway driving different. Doing 70mph (and a bit) was what i was used to. But stcking it on cruise control at 65mph often meant a lot more time struggling to get out of lane one into the next lane around lorries etc. I first thought it was because I was in lane one more but I think it was really the larger speed difference between myself and what I was trying to move into.

So I am thinking a slower driver who cannot cope will find getting into the second lane on a motorway hard and resort to cruising in that lane.

Do we need to accept that many people are not bright enough to cope with what we can cope with ?.
But does that mean they should be deprived of what is almost a basic human right ?.
There are degrees of course and some drivers just cannot possibly ever have passed their test.

Having been taught to drive by a family member I then had a few professional lessons. First lesson and the instructor said well you can drive perfectly well BUT you must let me teach you to pass the test. Getting ready for my test the instructor took me down a road that was 40mph but surrounded by 30mph. He reminded me that many people fail there test on that very stretch of road. So it is a failure possibility.

Now driving slowly is always going to be annoying to anyone stuck behind them.
I can live with that frustration to a point BUT what worries me is why are they driving so slowly. Obviously there could be a hazard that I cannot see but also is the driver themselves going to be a hazard.

I have experienced drivers who hesitate because they are on an unfamiliar route. I always prefer to make a decision and stick with it - I can always turn round or preferably turn back out of a side turning I did not really need. But then I tend to be aware of what vehicles are around and behind me. Some other people are just staring straight ahead.

I don’t really find speed makes that much difference to fuel consumption. You lost far more economy by having to brake down to low speed unnecessarily and then having to speed up again, and of course it’s harder to anticipate when your view ahead is blocked by a slowcoach in front.

I find the biggest efficiency is “shutting off” a bit early on the approach to features like roundabouts and traffic lights and letting the car speed drop naturally (also reducing brake wear), trying to pace approaches to roundabouts so you arrive just at the point when any queue on the approach has cleared, and slightly more gentle acceleration. All of these things can be done with virtually no impact on overall journey time.

 

[Krokodil]

I tend to blame the game, not the player - the car-centric society that forces people to drive for their everyday amenities, rather than the people driving to the best of their confidence level.

Yes, if people had better alternatives to driving the nervous drivers in particular would use them instead

Yes something to be said for just chill.

A friend of mine goes into a cavorting rant in a traffic jam. I just listen to the radio and try to strike up a conversation. Damn crowded planet .

I always made sure not to get wound up by a slow vehicle. That farmer is doing important work, that cyclist is just trying to reach his destination safely. I'd just calmly sit it out until a safe opportunity to overtake materialised. Getting wound up (even when there's a legitimate complaint like the OP has) achieves nothing.

 

[Efini92]

Again, rank poor driving. Observe the speed limits - ‘observe‘ means ‘notice and recognise’.

Agreed. I’d also like to add poor lane discipline on motorways and not using bus lanes outside of their operations.

 

[jfollows]

Went on a day trip to Oxford by car from Birmingham.
On the way back I was in a car with a male friend driving and getting mad at the girl friend in front driving too slow. It was dark and a windy road (1982). I said to him that I suspected he got a better idea of the road ahead than her because he was benefiting from her headlights which of course were further ahead.

Anyway he eventuall overtook. Straight away he was driving slower than he had when behind her. It really was hard to see. These were old cars with old style headlights.

The point is sometimes the person up front has a harder job to do as it is only their headlights lighting up the way for them.

But in @Bald Rick 's case I thin it was the A1081 which might have been the dead straight A5 ?.

I had the opposite problem once, I was driving over Old Winchester Hill at night and came across a dawdler who wasn’t using full beam. He was happy to pootle at 30mph and didn’t think he needed to see far ahead. In the end I had to use my full beam from behind him to see that the road ahead was clear to overtake him. Probably a bit inconsiderate of me and his lack of consideration for me doesn’t really make up for it.

 

[BingMan]

re drivers hitting the brakes at every corner…….I think this is often down to Waze etc - people who would normally stick to main roads are getting sent down side roads they don’t have the confidence for.

I am suffering something similar now that the main road to Macclesfield is closed and we have to use a narrow road instead.
So many drivers apply their brakes every time they see an approaching vehicle. Almost as if they think that applying brakes reduces the width of their car.
But so many drivers seem to unaware of the width of their vehicle when it comes to driving through narrow gaps

 

[Meerkat]

In the end I had to use my full beam from behind him to see that the road ahead was clear to overtake him. Probably a bit inconsiderate of me and his lack of consideration for me doesn’t really make up for it.

I used to have to do that a lot. I generally pulled out first, then full beam to see far enough ahead.

So many drivers apply their brakes every time they see an approaching vehicle.

That’ll be the headlights being too bright and too high now SUVs are normal.
it gets worse rapidly as you get older.

 

[The exile]

Agreed. I’d also like to add poor lane discipline on motorways and not using bus lanes outside of their operations.

Although if you’re in a busy unfamiliar urban area there are more important things to concentrate on than the times on the bus lane sign - especially if it’s obscured by a double decker during most of your approach. Bus lanes starting just after zebra crossings, for example, in towns with lots of e-scooters.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I used to have to do that a lot. I generally pulled out first, then full beam to see far enough ahead.

That’ll be the headlights being too bright and too high now SUVs are normal.
it gets worse rapidly as you get older.

Yes. I get dazzled more often nowadays. The advice I was given years ago was slow down and aim to get as close to the kerb on the left as possible - by looking at the kerb you are turning your eyes away from the bright light. But I also see more lights that are obviously out of alignment these days (one light OK and one screaming at me). Now SUVs are so common it really means I need to get in an SUV as well. We will all end up driving 7 tonne trucks one day !.

Although if you’re in a busy unfamiliar urban area there are more important things to concentrate on than the times on the bus lane sign - especially if it’s obscured by a double decker during most of your approach. Bus lanes starting just after zebra crossings, for example, in towns with lots of e-scooters.

Yes. I avoid bus lanes as much as possible nowadays because the times can vary. A few friends got caught out on what had been familiar bus lane that changed so prudent to play safe I am afraid - unless really sure.

 

[Bald Rick]

But so many drivers seem to unaware of the width of their vehicle when it comes to driving through narrow gaps

Well that works both ways. A friend of mine was complaining about his mother in law, who apparently uses the front wings of her car (that he paid for) as a cat uses it’s whiskers, ie when they hit something it tells her the car is too wide!

 

[Efini92]

Although if you’re in a busy unfamiliar urban area there are more important things to concentrate on than the times on the bus lane sign - especially if it’s obscured by a double decker during most of your approach. Bus lanes starting just after zebra crossings, for example, in towns with lots of e-scooters.

That’s fair enough for people unfamiliar with the area. But when you see everybody driving in the outside lane outside of its operation is poor. There’s plenty of signage.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well that works both ways. A friend of mine was complaining about his mother in law, who apparently uses the front wings of her car (that he paid for) as a cat uses it’s whiskers, ie when they hit something it tells her the car is too wide!

Oh gosh. I recall seeing someone parking like that. Apparently it was the way to do it in Paris years ago. Just gently push the cars until your space was big enough - that was in the days of proper bumpers though !.

 

[bramling]

I am suffering something similar now that the main road to Macclesfield is closed and we have to use a narrow road instead.
So many drivers apply their brakes every time they see an approaching vehicle. Almost as if they think that applying brakes reduces the width of their car.
But so many drivers seem to unaware of the width of their vehicle when it comes to driving through narrow gaps

I don’t see it as an issue slowing down to pass something on a fairly narrow lane. If you’re on a 60mph lane with no markings then it isn’t really safe for two vehicles to be passing at a closing speed of 120mph with only inches between, and the potential for the side of the road to be poorly made up.

Obviously different matter on a wider road.

I had the opposite problem once, I was driving over Old Winchester Hill at night and came across a dawdler who wasn’t using full beam. He was happy to pootle at 30mph and didn’t think he needed to see far ahead. In the end I had to use my full beam from behind him to see that the road ahead was clear to overtake him. Probably a bit inconsiderate of me and his lack of consideration for me doesn’t really make up for it.

To be honest, if someone’s faffing around, and especially if they’re not using their own main beam, I’m not going to be an effort to keep mine off when stuck behind them.

Some to their credit take the hint and create an easy opportunity to be overtaken, whilst the more ignorant ones start doing silly stuff like flashing their hazard lights on or whatever.

 

[Krokodil]

Oh gosh. I recall seeing someone parking like that. Apparently it was the way to do it in Paris years ago. Just gently push the cars until your space was big enough - that was in the days of proper bumpers though !.

Here is a demonstration of the practice by a well-known motoring journalist. Many of the comments are confirming that not only was it normal in Paris, it has also been witnessed in Strasbourg, Montpelier, Nice and Naples. When parked on the flat one should not apply the handbrake or leave the car in gear, that way one minimises damage:

 

[theblackwatch]

Also had someone do that in front us and set off a speed camera after holding us up for miles - we laughed a lot.

On the subject of cameras, I go past a speed camera every day i go to/from work. It is in a 60mph zone and I tend to go past it at 50-55mph - unlike a lot of people who seem to think that seeing the camera means they have to slow down to 40, despite the camera sign just before it also having a national speed limit sign). I actually overtake more people while passing the camera than at any other point on that road!

 

[jfollows]

On the subject of cameras, I go past a speed camera every day i go to/from work. It is in a 60mph zone and I tend to go past it at 50-55mph - unlike a lot of people who seem to think that seeing the camera means they have to slow down to 40, despite the camera sign just before it also having a national speed limit sign). I actually overtake more people while passing the camera than at any other point on that road!

Yes, there’s one like that in Wetley Rocks on the back route Stoke-Leek and it’s for a 50 limit but some people slow to 30 ……
Unfortunately there’s always been traffic and bends when I’ve been behind such a driver, so can’t overtake. And the road is festooned with cameras, some of which are for 30mph.

 

[Meerkat]

Yes, there’s one like that in Wetley Rocks on the back route Stoke-Leek and it’s for a 50 limit but some people slow to 30 ……
Unfortunately there’s always been traffic and bends when I’ve been behind such a driver, so can’t overtake. And the road is festooned with cameras, some of which are for 30mph.

Staffordshire LOVES speed cameras! I think they must breed them there

 

[Bald Rick]

Update.

I have just had cause to drive to Harpenden and back for the first time since starting this thread. Clear weather, good visibility. On the 60mph section:

Northbound, never got above 39mph, average 34mph. I was 6 cars behind the offender (couldn’t see what it was)

Southbound, never got above 42mph, average 37mph. I was 2 cars behind the offender, an almost new BMW 3.

After entering the outskirts of St Albans, the aforementioned BMW then took a right turn into a side road, without indicating, right in front of a vehicle coming the other way which had to brake sharply. If I hadn‘t been already delayed (for the above mentioned reasons) I would have gone after it to offer the driver some advice, and a specsavers voucher.

 

[Brent Goose]

Recently I have noticed a small minority of cars driving at around 40mph on the dual carriageway sections A27 while the traffic is otherwise free flowing. I think this kind of speed is differential is probably dangerous.

Other annoyances include

Only looking for a space at junctions or roundabouts having stopped rather than looking ahead and matching the approach to a likely gap

Some seem to think applying the brakes makes one’s car narrower

Pulling out in front of me so I have to brake then failing to keep up with general progress of traffic

Slowing down approaching a traffic light at green, presumably expecting it to change which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

 

[Peter Sarf]

Here is a demonstration of the practice by a well-known motoring journalist. Many of the comments are confirming that not only was it normal in Paris, it has also been witnessed in Strasbourg, Montpelier, Nice and Naples. When parked on the flat one should not apply the handbrake or leave the car in gear, that way one minimises damage:

Oh dear I had forgotten that very important bit - you must leave your car in neutral and no handbrake otherwise you WILL suffer !.
Visitors to said cities TAKE NOTE.

I am now remembering a video I was shown of a multistory car park in Bangkok (airport iirc) where staff would manoeuvre the cars that were across the bays. It was an almost continuous line of cars !.

Update.

I have just had cause to drive to Harpenden and back for the first time since starting this thread. Clear weather, good visibility. On the 60mph section:

Northbound, never got above 39mph, average 34mph. I was 6 cars behind the offender (couldn’t see what it was)

Southbound, never got above 42mph, average 37mph. I was 2 cars behind the offender, an almost new BMW 3.

After entering the outskirts of St Albans, the aforementioned BMW then took a right turn into a side road, without indicating, right in front of a vehicle coming the other way which had to brake sharply. If I hadn‘t been already delayed (for the above mentioned reasons) I would have gone after it to offer the driver some advice, and a specsavers voucher.

My best one was a milk float driving very much on the left in a two lane one way street indicating left and turning right across an adjacent car - crunch.

I do wonder why I have not chased after some hopeless cases. Probably best not to really.

Recently I have noticed a small minority of cars driving at around 40mph on the dual carriageway sections A27 while the traffic is otherwise free flowing. I think this kind of speed is differential is probably dangerous.

Other annoyances include

Only looking for a space at junctions or roundabouts having stopped rather than looking ahead and matching the approach to a likely gap

The worst thing with that at roundabouts is if the person behind anticipates too far ahead and does not realise the one in front seems to think a give way line is a stop line !. It has not happened to me yet !.

Some seem to think applying the brakes makes one’s car narrower

To be fair it reduces the chances of serious damage or injury.

Pulling out in front of me so I have to brake then failing to keep up with general progress of traffic

Standard procedure I am afraid. I sometime notice a rectangular device held to their right ear - it is some sort of protective force field that also means they cannot change gear and cannot drive straight.

Slowing down approaching a traffic light at green, presumably expecting it to change which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

Guilty. Sort of. Back in 1981 my friends got me to drive some girls Fiat Palio (127 tarted up) as it was after her birthday. I was the least drunk (I had a minger of a cold, got there late and was not really drinking). I slowed down (stopped using petrol) way before a pelican crossing much to all the back seat drivers annoyance. It turned red . I had noticed the pedestrian walking up and pressing the button and it was the dead of night so they were going to be given a green man fairly pronto plus there was no way I could make it.

 

[Bald Rick]

I do wonder why I have not chased after some hopeless cases. Probably best not to really.

In tonight’s case I was reasonably sure that the driver was female, would not have had English as her first language, and thus that a 6’ &thensome bloke looking cross in a black jacket banging on their window would have seemed somewhat threatening. So head ruled over a (pumping) heart. Even had heart ruled, I don’t suppose she would have understood what the problems were (not because of language, but because of not realising what she had done).

 

[Brent Goose]

An ex-gf used to do the whole slow right down and break for every possible hazard if a car was in her view too close behind which struck me as a road rage incident in the making.

 

[bramling]

Update.

I have just had cause to drive to Harpenden and back for the first time since starting this thread. Clear weather, good visibility. On the 60mph section:

Northbound, never got above 39mph, average 34mph. I was 6 cars behind the offender (couldn’t see what it was)

Southbound, never got above 42mph, average 37mph. I was 2 cars behind the offender, an almost new BMW 3.

After entering the outskirts of St Albans, the aforementioned BMW then took a right turn into a side road, without indicating, right in front of a vehicle coming the other way which had to brake sharply. If I hadn‘t been already delayed (for the above mentioned reasons) I would have gone after it to offer the driver some advice, and a specsavers voucher.

Think this proves the theory that these ones who prat around at daft speeds are also associated with other bad stuff as well. It’s certainly my experience.

 

[Brent Goose]

I think in a lot of cases up here people driving at slow speed are tourists visiting the area and unfamiliar with the roads especially with winding scenic roads. Excessively slow speeds can be irritating but it's the variation in speed I find more annoying when drivers slow right down for corners then speed up on the straights so you're constantly having to slow right down as well, speed back up, slow down then of course on a good long straight good for overtaking they boot the throttle and you can't get past safely.

I have very occasionally have has people seemingly accelerating to prevent an overtake but the solution to this is having a goodly amount of power available.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Under-speeders cars seem to automatically apply the brakes whenever the steering wheel gets moved

And if it's a 60mph road and they are doing 30, when it says 'Slow' on the road where it twists they put the brakes on and go round the twisty bit at 15!

A clear reason for going slow though is when passing one of the known favourite locations of the camera van - better safe than sorry! (I'm not talking ridiculously slow, but better slow down more than you would otherwise and avoid the risk of three points and a fine!).

And another one is when driving at night and getting repeatedly dazzled by cars going the other way. This is particularly a problem with a small, fairly low car, when those going the other way are massive SUVs with LED headlights which are unnecessarily bright (which is most newish SUVs these days).

 

[Harpo]

massive SUVs with LED headlights which are unnecessarily bright

Which tend to be the exact opposite of this thread with their over-confidence.