Dudding Hill line

[MatthewRead]

With plans to reinstate passenger services on the Brentford goods line wouldn't it be more feasible to reinstate passenger services on this 4 mile line which is made up of double track and could provide some potential links around the capital I remember watching a documentary once saying is having line that just carry freight really necessary.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

With plans to reinstate passenger services on the Brentford goods line wouldn't it be more feasible to reinstate passenger services on this 4 mile line which is made up of double track and could provide some potential links around the capital I remember watching a documentary once saying is having line that just carry freight really necessary.

There seems to be a great deal of reticence in re-opening the route to passenger traffic.

Even a Cricklewood-Acton Mainline shuttle would prove very popular and wouldn't take a great deal to initiate.
Anyone who has had to endure the painstakingly slow journey of the very well patronised 24 hour route 266 would realise the potential for this North/West London corridor for a rapid rail route.

 

[Muzer]

There were vague plans at one point put out by Boris as an "R25" scheme (an outer orbital railway in a similar style to the M25 road, though not going to the same places). Unless I'm getting it confused with somewhere else.

Whether or not this scheme will be further developed is another question — obviously while it was a Boris idea, Khan is probably likely to be quite pro-transport, so it wouldn't surprise me if it does eventually get developed into a more concrete scheme — but how long that would take is another question.

 

[HowardGWR]

There were vague plans at one point put out by Boris as an "R25" scheme (an outer orbital railway in a similar style to the M25 road, though not going to the same places). Unless I'm getting it confused with somewhere else.

Whether or not this scheme will be further developed is another question — obviously while it was a Boris idea, Khan is probably likely to be quite pro-transport, so it wouldn't surprise me if it does eventually get developed into a more concrete scheme — but how long that would take is another question.

Boris who? Why not Sadiq then?

 

[AM9]

There were vague plans at one point put out by Boris as an "R25" scheme (an outer orbital railway in a similar style to the M25 road, though not going to the same places). Unless I'm getting it confused with somewhere else.

Whether or not this scheme will be further developed is another question — obviously while it was a Boris idea, Khan is probably likely to be quite pro-transport, so it wouldn't surprise me if it does eventually get developed into a more concrete scheme — but how long that would take is another question.

It has been discussed here before. I would imagine the lack of spare capacity on the MML would make adding Dudding Hill traffic difficult, especially if the Rail Freight Interchange at Radlett happens. Maybe the oft mentioned new station at Brent Cross if the retail area was redeveloped there could provide MML interchange (Thameslink slow trains only). That could then allow an LO service to Richmond with stops at Acton Central, South Acton, Gunnersbury and Kew Gardens. There would also be opportunities for stations at Craven Park or even an interchange with the LO & Bakerloo at Harlesden.
Between the MML and Acton Wells junction there are only 5* road overbridges, no tunnels and all other rail lines pass under the line between so 26kV electrification with OLE would be relatively easy.

* Edgware Road passes over the northern chord and under the southern chord at Brent Cross.

 

[Class 170101]

This line was proposed for wiring (along with NLL to GW link line) as a precursor to the Electric Spiner works to Oxford which would need a route for diverted freights but I think has been shelved.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It wouldn't take a great deal to put a platform on the freight side at Cricklewood and run a dmu shuttle to Acton Mainline to gauge potential usage of the route.

 

[Chris125]

It's hardly a funding priority today, but with the forthcoming redevelopment of both Brent Cross and Old Oak Common it's time is coming - perhaps in the next 10-15 years?

 

[MatthewRead]

It's hardly a funding priority today, but with the forthcoming redevelopment of both Brent Cross and Old Oak Common it's time is coming - perhaps in the next 10-15 years?

That's a long time

 

[Class 170101]

It wouldn't take a great deal to put a platform on the freight side at Cricklewood and run a dmu shuttle to Acton Mainline to gauge potential usage of the route.

I wonder whether Richmond would be a better southern terminus vice Acton Main Line?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I wonder whether Richmond would be a better southern terminus vice Acton Main Line?

Operationally though a single train could operate a reasonable (at least once maybe less) hourly service you'd need more rolling stock and have to slot it in to LO and LU paths between Gunnersbury and Richmond.

The Cricklewood - Acton service would be a relatively cheap and easier option to start off with.

 

[adamedwards]

This could be an ideal route for the Vivarail battery ex D stock units. Charging whilst on the Underground 3rd rail and then battery to Brent Cross. That way there is cheaper way to get the trains running.

 

[Class 170101]

Operationally though a single train could operate a reasonable (at least once maybe less) hourly service you'd need more rolling stock and have to slot it in to LO and LU paths between Gunnersbury and Richmond.

The Cricklewood - Acton service would be a relatively cheap and easier option to start off with.

You would have to navigate the LO service still if you went to Acton Main Line plus the Crossrail services there maybe? It should be noted that Acton Main Line to Acton Wells Jn is a regulating point for freight traffic between Western and Anglia regions.

 

[AM9]

You would have to navigate the LO service still if you went to Acton Main Line plus the Crossrail services there maybe? It should be noted that Acton Main Line to Acton Wells Jn is a regulating point for freight traffic between Western and Anglia regions.

It's a shame that the Dudding Hill line joins the existing LO routes after the Richmond/Clapham Junction branches' split. If it didn't, the heavily loaded section from Gospel Oak junction to Kensal Green junction (which may soon pick up more freight off the electrified GOBlin) could be relieved of some LO traffic by the Dudding Hill branch taking some services from either/or Richmond or Clapham Junction.
Given the intention to make Old Oak Common a major interchange when HS2 is completed such as Stratford has grown into since HS1 and the Stratford City expansion, there may be scope to resite and interconnect stations on all lines in the area to enable such interchanges.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This line was proposed for wiring (along with NLL to GW link line) as a precursor to the Electric Spiner works to Oxford which would need a route for diverted freights but I think has been shelved.

I think that was for a GWML-WCML link via Acton Canal Wharf Jn rather than the whole route to the MML.
Electrification of the whole line was once mooted as a "Heathrow Express" scheme into St Pancras for the City, but that was superseded by HEx and Crossrail.
As it stands, we are not even sure of the 1/4-mile of wiring from Acton Main Line to Acton Wells, so technically the GW scheme will still be isolated from everything else.

 

[Nippy]

As it stands, we are not even sure of the 1/4-mile of wiring from Acton Main Line to Acton Wells, so technically the GW scheme will still be isolated from everything else.

Hmmmm, technically it will be electrically attached to Anglia via Crossrail. Admittedly not much use apart from Crossrail!

 

[Class 170101]

I think that was for a GWML-WCML link via Acton Canal Wharf Jn rather than the whole route to the MML.
Electrification of the whole line was once mooted as a "Heathrow Express" scheme into St Pancras for the City, but that was superseded by HEx and Crossrail.
As it stands, we are not even sure of the 1/4-mile of wiring from Acton Main Line to Acton Wells, so technically the GW scheme will still be isolated from everything else.

Would be usefuul as an alternative feed where it crosses the WCML at Harlesden and also from MML. As for the uncertainty somone needs to give NR / DfT a good kicking and tell them to get on with it quite frankly!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Would be usefuul as an alternative feed where it crosses the WCML at Harlesden and also from MML. As for the uncertainty somone needs to give NR / DfT a good kicking and tell them to get on with it quite frankly!

It needs the freight TOCs to say they would use it, which they seem unwilling to do.
Hopefully it will fall out of the HS2 and WCML-to-Crossrail plans at Old Oak.

 

[plcd1]

The Dudding Hill Line has been evaluated by TfL as part of early efforts to see how the rejigged Old Oak Common area (post regeneration) could be served. It was originally going to be a Hounslow - Brent Cross service but I think the idea has sunk somewhat. I happen to think it would be an excellent service to introduce but clearly it would require lots of money to get stations built and a service started. That money doesn't exist. In an ideal world you'd start it with ex GOBLIN class 172s and see how things went.

The issues surrounding OOC regeneration seem to get more complex by the month as doubts have been cast about the previous approach to the area. This is almost certainly forcing a rethink and there has been very little said about how the Overground would run though a redesigned site. The old two stations approach that was endorsed via public consultation may no longer be suitable.

 

[OxtedL]

In broad strategic terms the Dudding Hill line isn't actually that useful for passengers, since the North London Line already runs along the same basic corridor from West Hampstead - Willesden Junction - Acton.

I'm sure it would be much appreciated by local users though, if money were found for intermediate stations.

 

[59CosG95]

I saw this (http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...n-of-new-rail-freight-terminal-at-cricklewood) on the RTM website this morning; we may be getting a further increase in freight on the Dudding Hill now that this has the green light.