Dutch flyer - some facts

[30907]

Going out, the staff opened the doors in Hoek van Holland on the dot of 0745, and by using the stairs rather than waiting for the lift, I managed to march down the gangplank, was first through Customs and made the 0756 departure to Rotterdam, along with a few others who were quick on their feet. I wouldn't rely on making that connection though.

You're lucky - the one thing I dislike about the route as a foot passenger is the scrum to get off and in my experience making the next departure (was 0807 then) is a bit tight. Suppose it depends how many others are trying to get off with you.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Yes, there was a scrum, and the staff kept trying to disperse it before the doors opened. And this was a Sunday morning, so the next departure wasn't for half an hour.

 

[Brucey]

On the Harwich to Holland overnight route, how early can you board the ferry and take residence in your cabin?

Also, is the any Greater Anglia station ticket valid like a day ranger or only as a point-to-point ticket? Similarly, does the any Dutch station ticket work in the same way?

And security at Harwich for foot passengers: can you take liquids through or is it airline style? I assume food would be permitted, as at airports. Seems crazy they subject foot passenger baggage to searches but not car passengers.

 

[317666]

I've caught the ferry from Harwich twice in 2014, both times it was just a case of putting my luggage through an x-ray machine and walking through a metal detector - no different to Eurostar, except the queue was a hell of a lot shorter (in fact the first time I was the only passenger there!). I had a bottle of water in my bag so I'd therefore assume liquids are fine. I was able to board the ferry immediately after arriving at the station, on the arrival from Cambridge at 21:29.

I'm fairly sure the GA ticket is just point-to-point but not 100% sure on the NS one.

Really enjoy taking the overnight ferry, definitely my preferred way of getting to BeNeLux or Germany rather than via the Channel Tunnel.

 

[radamfi]

Train passengers used to get a paper ticket to "Any Dutch Station" on standard NS ticket stock. But paper tickets are no longer issued by Dutch railways, replaced by disposable smartcards since last summer. I took the boat last week, but with my bike so I didn't travel as a foot passenger. They used to sell regular point-to-point train tickets on board the ferry but last week they sold day tickets on disposable smartcards for the whole Dutch network for 17 euros, and no other train tickets. AFAIK, they are not for general sale in the Netherlands at any price, except at Eindhoven airport for 25 euros. NS ticket machines sell day tickets for 50.80 euros, but they are only valid on NS so I don't count them as the same thing.

So I don't know what you get on the Dutch side now, but I would guess you get those disposable day tickets, as I can see that being the only practical option. That would be an improvement on "Any Dutch Station" ticket.

 

[furgus2]

On the two occasions I've travelled overnight from Harwich as a foot passenger, check in opened at 20:30. The first time actual boarding was a few minutes after that as we had to wait for a bus to take us on board. The second time, the walkway was in use, so we were able to board immediately.

 

[306024]

On the Harwich to Holland overnight route, how early can you board the ferry and take residence in your cabin?

Yes 20.30 to 20.45 as a rule, even though the ship doesn't sail until 23.15. They are keen to get you on board, hopefully so you treat yourself to dinner.

That is why the 'boat train' such as it is leaves Liverpool Street at 19.32.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Netherlands Railways is, in so very many ways, a fine modern system, but it seems to be one they really don't want anyone else to use!

I find it to be a very basic system with few[1] redeeming features, personally, made worse by the dis-integration promoted by the OV Chipkaart. As for removing departure posters, that's utterly mad.

[1] The Taktfahrplan and the very high capacity are probably it, really.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can understand why NS don't accept Visa/Mastercard. In other countries, they accept them at no extra cost, but that means that you are effectively paying extra for your ticket as a result.

To which the glaringly obvious answer (and the one I think they are finally taking) is to accept them, but charge, at cost, the extra cost of acceptance.

It's better than having to carry a pocket of EUR 2 coins around for stations which only have TVMs.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

actually will UK ticket websites mail tickets abroad?

I believe not. Though SBB will happily do you an annual Halbtax as a tourist, provided you are making two trips to CH, one to order and one to collect it (so good for regular business travellers) - they send it to a station of your choice for collection.

Neil

 

[radamfi]

I find it to be a very basic system with few[1] redeeming features, personally, made worse by the dis-integration promoted by the OV Chipkaart. As for removing departure posters, that's utterly mad.

[1] The Taktfahrplan and the very high capacity are probably it, really.

The departure posters were still there last week, obviously newly installed after the start of the new timetable.

Some good things about Dutch trains:

The OV-Chipkaart means that you never need to buy a ticket ever again. If you have auto-topup, that means you don't even have to visit a machine ever again. That is a huge plus point. You can change your destination on a whim while travelling without having to upgrade your ticket, or get a refund.

Low fares are an obvious advantage, even without railcards. Although Belgium is even cheaper.

Train frequency is high, with no station having less than an hourly service (generally at least every 30 minutes) even on Sunday.

Stations are of a uniformly high standard. Cycle parking is by far the best in the world with main stations having secure cycle parking where you need to show your parking ticket to the attendant, available from first to last train. Bus connections are always right outside the station, although that is the same in the rest of Europe except the UK. No need for Plusbus or similar as your OV-Chipkaart will work on the bus.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Liquids are fine i took 16 cans of Stowford Press and a few bottles of Aspalls aboard the Ferry in 2012 Eurostar are a pain in the neck for taking Alcohol aboard even if you dont want to consume it onboard

 

[gordonthemoron]

used dutchflyer last week, foot passengers get the 1 day OV Chipkaart which is also available to buy onboard. Security at Harwich is a scanner for large bags and a rummage through smaller bags sometimes. No body scanner, no problem with liquids or food, took no time at all. There is no security check at Hoek van Holland

 

[Greenback]

I can remember leaving the ship at Hoek back in 1985, walking along the windswept quayside and then still being stuck outside the big shed, in a queue for passport and customs checks!

Some things, at least, have improved since the 'good old days'!

 

[Mr_FIP]

I used the ship for a long weekend in the Netherlands last year. Out Friday night, back Sunday night. I found both ships in the general public areas to be reasonably clean.

My cabin (with window) was spotless and on both crossings I was given a cabin that could sleep 5 - so lots of space.

The meals do seem a "bit expensive".

The "free internet" service - there is an internet kiosk - I found to be useless.

But what seems to let it all down for foot passengers is the rail connections at either end - No longer is there a "boat Train" from LV St to Harwich or a connecting 'Boat Train' from Hoek-van-holland to Amsterdam. Or indeed a through service to Koeln.

I remember in the 1980's regularly using the 09.35am from LV - the 'boat train' to Harwich Parkstone Quay - IC stock with class 86 - with first and only stop Harwich Parkstone Quay.

Now you are expected to take either an IC service from LV Str to Manningtree and then change to the 'branch line' service or a commuter 'stopping train' from LV Str.

When I took the IC option on a Friday (19.00 LV Str) the train was full and standing from LV Str even in 1st class - lucky I had a seat reservation

At the Hoek end the EMO to / from Rotterdam is just - well 'old and dirty'. - with apparently no 1st class or at least if it does, the NS inspector didn't enforce it.

Coming off the Night Crossing from Hoek to Harwich it is possible to make an earlier 'connecting' train from Harwich to Manningtree so allowing changing into the IC Norwich -> LV Str service. - arrived LV circa 08.30am

But the platform staff at Harwich seemed quite keen to direct me to the 'through to London' stopping train.

In Summary it seems as if the Boat company encourage foot passengers but the railways at either end couldn't give a toss.

Just remember the old saying: Harwich for the Continent - Frinton for the Incontinent

 

[MisterT]

Actually, the sprinter trains from Hook of Holland to Rotterdam do have a first class. It's in the middle of the train, with the red seats:

(my apologies for the quality, I had to take a picture with my phone.)

It's more like a different seat color and a bit more leg space, than a real first class. The trains aren't meant for long distance.

 

[306024]

I used the ship for a long weekend in the Netherlands last year. Out Friday night, back Sunday night.

But what seems to let it all down for foot passengers is the rail connections at either end - No longer is there a "boat Train" from LV St to Harwich or a connecting 'Boat Train' from Hoek-van-holland to Amsterdam. Or indeed a through service to Koeln.

I remember in the 1980's regularly using the 09.35am from LV - the 'boat train' to Harwich Parkstone Quay - IC stock with class 86 - with first and only stop Harwich Parkstone Quay.

Now you are expected to take either an IC service from LV Str to Manningtree and then change to the 'branch line' service or a commuter 'stopping train' from LV Str.

When I took the IC option on a Friday (19.00 LV Str) the train was full and standing from LV Str even in 1st class - lucky I had a seat reservation

At the Hoek end the EMO to / from Rotterdam is just - well 'old and dirty'. - with apparently no 1st class or at least if it does, the NS inspector didn't enforce it.

Coming off the Night Crossing from Hoek to Harwich it is possible to make an earlier 'connecting' train from Harwich to Manningtree so allowing changing into the IC Norwich -> LV Str service. - arrived LV circa 08.30am

But the platform staff at Harwich seemed quite keen to direct me to the 'through to London' stopping train.

In Summary it seems as if the Boat company encourage foot passengers but the railways at either end couldn't give a toss.

Just remember the old saying: Harwich for the Continent - Frinton for the Incontinent

If AGA couldn't give a toss why bother with the Dutch Flyer ticket in the first place? And why do they continue to provide direct trains to Harwich International for all Stena sailings? Me thinks you are being rather harsh.

Yes we would all prefer a class 37 or a Britannia on 11 Mk1s with full restaurant facilities and a Hook Continental headboard, but this isn't 1980, or 1960.

Sorry but by taking the 19.00 from Liverpool St all you did was add to the overcrowding, plenty of room on the 19.32 direct service. And on the return the staff at Harwich point you to the direct train as on a Monday morning not everyone at Manningtree can get a seat on the 06.24 Norwich to Liverpool St.

The Dutch railways are keener to send you on their high speed route via Brussels, they certainly aren't interested, but enjoy your FIP ticket between The Hook and Rotterdam before the route is converted to part of the Rotterdam metro.

And finally it is Parkeston, not Parkstone

 

[Greenback]

I thought that the Rotterdam - Hoek trains seemed clean and modern. Sadly, a dedicated non stop boar train to Harwich can't be filled these days due to the decline in foot passengers. Similarly, rail connections at the Dutch side have been cut back due to much lower demand.

 

[317666]

I thought that the Rotterdam - Hoek trains seemed clean and modern.

Indeed, it's hard to believe that the oldest SGMs are from 1975!