E-scooter & hoverboard ban on GTR

[heathrowrail]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but I had an email from GWR on Monday, E-scooters will be banned from all Great Western Railway services from 27th May. I believe this is due to an incident onboard one of their trains as they mention E-scooter batteries aren't currently regulated for safety.

 

[Clip]

This was on the BBC website today showing an E Scooter going up in flames whilst charging

Watch: E-scooter explodes and fire engulfs room

The footage shows the scooter exploding into a fireball while charging in a house in Harlesden.

www.bbc.co.uk

Video footage shows the moment an e-scooter burst into flames and then exploded while on charge in the kitchen of a north-west London house.

that's in a home - imagine that on a train - would be horrific

 

[TPO]

Indeed. And the article also points out that LFB have said there have been 48 e-bike and 12 e-scooter fires in London this year so far.

On a train in a tunnel underground would be even worse still.....

TPO

 

[LOL The Irony]

This was on the BBC website today showing an E Scooter going up in flames whilst charging

Watch: E-scooter explodes and fire engulfs room

The footage shows the scooter exploding into a fireball while charging in a house in Harlesden.

www.bbc.co.uk

that's in a home - imagine that on a train - would be horrific

Toxic gases have filled the room first shown in under 10 seconds. You don't even need to imagine what happens when this goes off inside a carriage, especially on the tube.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Toxic gases have filled the room first shown in under 10 seconds. You don't even need to imagine what happens when this goes off inside a carriage, especially on the tube.

SWR are also introducing a ban from June 1st.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Government has really caused the problem here, by not banning their sale in the UK unless they are CE or UKCA approved. This has probably mostly been caused by the dithering about legalising their use on public roads.

 

[Davester50]

ScotRail too




Scotrail notice of unregulated lithium-ion battery ban.

 

[jon0844]

People already asking staff why not e-bikes. While e-bikes on sale in shops are road legal, there are plenty of 'homebrew' e-bikes that most certainly aren't approved, and also many cheap Chinese imports being advertised - and plenty of websites/forums encouraging their use because they can go really fast, or really far (both ideal for delivery drivers).

Given our post-Brexit lack of customs checks, I am certain those e-bikes are going to be a problem in the future. Let's hope they're not the ones being taken on trains.

Only today we've had a story about dodgy Chinese vapes that are dangerous. I tried to show my surprised face, but come on - we already knew this was happening.

The Government has, yet again, dropped the ball on this and the dithering on e-scooters has created more problems than just fires on trains or homes. Many users are still a danger to themselves and others when riding on pavements or roads.

I really hope e-bikes don't end up getting lumped in with all the others because we're totally unable to regulate things and are happy to allow people to import and sell unsafe products without any real fear of punishment.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

because they can go really fast, or really far (both ideal for delivery drivers).

I'd say more than delivery drivers, those qualities are things everyone wants in a transportation method.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People already asking staff why not e-bikes. While e-bikes on sale in shops are road legal, there are plenty of 'homebrew' e-bikes that most certainly aren't approved, and also many cheap Chinese imports being advertised - and plenty of websites/forums encouraging their use because they can go really fast, or really far (both ideal for delivery drivers).

The thing is that the majority of e-bikes aren't an issue, whereas the majority of e-scooters etc are an issue.

 

[jon0844]

I'd say more than delivery drivers, those qualities are things everyone wants in a transportation method.

I'd assume most people wanting a crazy fast e-bike, especially the mountain bike sized ones, are quite likely doing it for sport on trails. If it's off-road then it's all good, although that doesn't change the potential danger of people custom building when they don't know what they're doing*.

It's the delivery drivers I see most with illegal e-bikes (both speed and lack of pedalling) because time is money - which also means they're dangerous for other reasons; a desire to get from A to B as quickly as possible and not necessarily being as careful when mixing with cars and people.

* Don't get me wrong, I am certain there are communities that DO know what they're doing. The laws are also slightly different in other countries, so I am sure it's possible to import a certified bike from somewhere else. It's the homebrew stuff that's most worrying, and hopefully won't go anywhere near public transport. People's homes though? That's worrying, and even more so in a block of flats.

The thing is that the majority of e-bikes aren't an issue, whereas the majority of e-scooters etc are an issue.

I know, and I hope that remains true (disclosure: I own one). But if we get any e-bikes catching fire, they will have little choice but to act.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's the delivery drivers I see most with illegal e-bikes (both speed and lack of pedalling) because time is money - which also means they're dangerous for other reasons; a desire to get from A to B as quickly as possible and not necessarily being as careful when mixing with cars and people.

The Police need to do their job and deal with these. Though not all of the ones they use are bad. They do seem to like the ones that look like mini motorcycles, but not all of them are non-compliant despite how it might appear.

TBH we could do with a general law banning the import of lithium-based rechargeable batteries of any kind (whether fitted to devices or not) that aren't CE or UKCA approved. That would at least slow the flow of dangerous rubbish.

* Don't get me wrong, I am certain there are communities that DO know what they're doing. The laws are also slightly different in other countries, so I am sure it's possible to import a certified bike from somewhere else. It's the homebrew stuff that's most worrying, and hopefully won't go anywhere near public transport. People's homes though? That's worrying, and even more so in a block of flats.

Flats SHOULD of course be compartmentalised, and because that has now come to the fore with Grenfell (which was meant to be but wasn't) people are paying attention to it. Probably more of a risk with terraced houses now to be honest, where there are basically no anti-fire-spread regulations at all - many older ones even have fully open lofts across the whole row.

 

[jon0844]

TBH we could do with a general law banning the import of lithium-based rechargeable batteries of any kind (whether fitted to devices or not) that aren't CE or UKCA approved. That would at least slow the flow of dangerous rubbish.

This. If the Government actually cared about consumers, they'd be looking at stopping the importation of all dodgy goods. Trading Standards has cut to the bone, and we're not actively seeking to check imports of anything - so it must be totally crazy right now. No wonder we now have more competitors to Wish.com because it's easy money for people who don't give a stuff about people's safety.

Flats SHOULD of course be compartmentalised, and because that has now come to the fore with Grenfell (which was meant to be but wasn't) people are paying attention to it. Probably more of a risk with terraced houses now to be honest, where there are basically no anti-fire-spread regulations at all - many older ones even have fully open lofts across the whole row.

Also agreed. People should be getting told about safety when they buy any such product. I got no such warnings with mine, and don't know anyone else that has. My bike charges indoors but not in a location that would prevent a safe escape, and it doesn't charge when anyone is asleep either (although it IS left plugged in, so I'm relying on the battery management to stop taking power once it's full - so there's still a slight potential risk if something malfunctions).

 

[Davester50]

TBH we could do with a general law banning the import of lithium-based rechargeable batteries of any kind (whether fitted to devices or not) that aren't CE or UKCA approved. That would at least slow the flow of dangerous rubbish.

I agree, but really, would it? If they'll fake batteries, faking a CE or UKCA approval wouldn't stop any rogue overseas manufacturer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This. If the Government actually cared about consumers, they'd be looking at stopping the importation of all dodgy goods. Trading Standards has cut to the bone, and we're not actively seeking to check imports of anything - so it must be totally crazy right now. No wonder we now have more competitors to Wish.com because it's easy money for people who don't give a stuff about people's safety.

Even if it wasn't enforced the flow would reduce significantly, as not everyone is willing to break the law.

I agree, but really, would it? If they'll fake batteries, faking a CE or UKCA approval wouldn't stop any rogue overseas manufacturer.

You can fake printing CE or UKCA on it, but that's not the same as faking the actual certification. And as I said, not everyone is willing to break the law.

 

[Davester50]

You can fake printing CE or UKCA on it, but that's not the same as faking the actual certification. And as I said, not everyone is willing to break the law.

It's not holding back the flow at present though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not holding back the flow at present though.

Because they aren't presently required to be CE/UKCA approved at all in order to import them.

They may be to sell them, (not sure), but it's a lot easier to sell a dodgy knock-off that's already in the country than import one.

 

[jon0844]

It isn't easy, but certainly isn't impossible, to check the origins of things like lithium ion batteries (or other types). Certification would mean requiring a paper trail that could be verified, and hopefully avoid people sticking false labels on products (which absolutely is happening right now, and has been for years. There's even the fake CE logo which has a different spacing between the letters. UKCA is meaningless right now too).

But to the Government that's a lot of effort and cost, so let's just allow people to self regulate. That always works.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

But to the Government that's a lot of effort and cost, so let's just allow people to self regulate. That always works.

I feel like if we're left to self-regulate the expencive "safe" ones will be removed from sale with noone buying them

 

[Davester50]

Because they aren't presently required to be CE/UKCA approved at all in order to import them.

Didn't know that, so fair enough

They may be to sell them, (not sure), but it's a lot easier to sell a dodgy knock-off that's already in the country than import one.

True, I wouldn't like to know just how many are shipped from online retailers based in China on a daily basis.


Anyway, as the thread is now encompassing ever more operators, can the thread title reflect the increasing network restrictions?

 

[jon0844]

I feel like if we're left to self-regulate the expencive "safe" ones will be removed from sale with noone buying them

Well, quite. I mean, e-bikes can cost £1-£2k so if you can get one for £300-£400 from Wish - why wouldn't you? Quite often you'll get fast delivery because they've already been imported in bulk to a UK address, whereas an official e-bike might take a while.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, quite. I mean, e-bikes can cost £1-£2k so if you can get one for £300-£400 from Wish - why wouldn't you?

Because it might burn your house down.

 

[jon0844]

Because it might burn your house down.

Do people consider this currently? I expect a wider campaign to raise awareness might help.

 

[GodAtum]

The thing is that the majority of e-bikes aren't an issue, whereas the majority of e-scooters etc are an issue.

Why are they more of an issue? Don't they use the same type of battery?

 

[najaB]

TBH we could do with a general law banning the import of lithium-based rechargeable batteries of any kind (whether fitted to devices or not) that aren't CE or UKCA approved. That would at least slow the flow of dangerous rubbish.

Laws mean nothing if people know that they aren't going to be enforced. And that's the situation we are in right now - we can't even ensure that food imports are safe, batteries will be *far* down the list of priorities.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Why are they more of an issue? Don't they use the same type of battery?

Legal e scooters are hard to obtain in this country. E bikes you can grab from your local Halfords or many independents, to be fair.

 

[jon0844]

Legal e scooters are hard to obtain in this country. E bikes you can grab from your local Halfords or many independents, to be fair.

Are the e-scooters on sale in Halfords not certified, but just sold as for off-road (private land) use - albeit in the small print?

 

[najaB]

Are the e-scooters on sale in Halfords not certified, but just sold as for off-road (private land) use - albeit in the small print?

More or less, in the FAQs:

Q. Are electric scooters legal in the UK?
Yes, electric scooters are legal to own in the UK. However, there are lots of restrictions surrounding where they can be used.

It's currently illegal to ride a privately owned e-scooter on a public road, pavement, cycle lane or bridleway. Privately owned e-scooters can only be ridden on private land with the permission on the landowner.

The UK government are running trials of rental operations through 2020-2022, in selected major cities. These pilot programs could potentially pave the way to a version of the UK in which e-scooters are generally legal for use on roads and cycle lanes, carefully regulated to promote safety, and socially accepted as a sustainable means of transport.

Private electric scooters are now set to be legalised for use on public roads across the UK, under the upcoming Transport Bill introduced at the Queen's speech on 10th May. This means that over the course of the year ahead, UK government will work through the details of the regulations that will enable the legislation of e-scooters.

 

[AlterEgo]

Are the e-scooters on sale in Halfords not certified, but just sold as for off-road (private land) use - albeit in the small print?

They are actually sold with a fairly hefty warning sign by the display in my local one.

 

[Ediswan]

They are actually sold with a fairly hefty warning sign by the display in my local one.

Same here. Went in today looking for an inner tube to fit a Brompton (failed), but hard to miss the sign regarding the legality of using e-scooters.