E-Tickets on dead phones - a possible solution?

[Bletchleyite]

The reason would simply be so nobody else could use it. You could choose to have unnamed but would not have this protection.

 

[AlterEgo]

The reason would simply be so nobody else could use it. You could choose to have unnamed but would not have this protection.

Exactly. Even lost paper tickets can be reprinted if they're named and tied to ID. Culturally the UK is very far away from accepting this, even though most ordinary passengers, if they lost their ticket, would think "oh here is my name and driving licence, check the booking!". Britain really enjoys being some fictional bastion of freedom without ID; I can only describe the entire premise as a hallucination.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly. Even lost paper tickets can be reprinted if they're named and tied to ID. Culturally the UK is very far away from accepting this, even though most ordinary passengers, if they lost their ticket, would think "oh here is my name and driving licence, check the booking!". Britain really enjoys being some fictional bastion of freedom without ID; I can only describe the entire premise as a hallucination.

It needn't be mandatory, anyway. I only ever buy tickets for me, so it's not an imposition. People who prefer to take the risk of a failed device but don't wish to give their name for whatever reason (any reason they like) could still have that option.

In many German cities, for season tickets, you can choose if you want a transferrable one or a named one. The tradeoff is that if it's named you can send it in afterwards if issued a penalty and the penalty will be cancelled, but only you can use it. Whereas with the transferrable one anyone can use it but if you forget it the penalty must be paid.

But in terms of acceptance, other than rail and local bus, all transport tickets are named - Megabus are, NatEx are, air tickets are. Hotels are too (unless you pick the "someone else is staying" option, which is comparable to giving an option for unnamed train tickets). So why is the railway different?

 

[AlterEgo]

But in terms of acceptance, other than rail and local bus, all transport tickets are named - Megabus are, NatEx are, air tickets are. Hotels are too (unless you pick the "someone else is staying" option, which is comparable to giving an option for unnamed train tickets). So why is the railway different?

"It's always been like this" carries a lot of weight, unfortunately.

 

[AM9]

But in terms of acceptance, other than rail and local bus, all transport tickets are named - Megabus are, NatEx are, air tickets are. Hotels are too (unless you pick the "someone else is staying" option, which is comparable to giving an option for unnamed train tickets). So why is the railway different?

Your examples of coach and hotel bookings are nothing like ticketing on fare stage buses or rail tickets, except advances. However, back on topic, I am not averse to Aztec coded tickets, provide all parts of the railway are equipped to use them, as I've said so many times before, there should be no compulsion of using a smartphone to travel on the railway, paper versions of e-tickets are fine. Quite a few posters on RUK are erroneously inferring that mandatory use of phones is coming. Unless somebody here has evidence of that to share here, then another mode of ticketing must be available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your examples of coach and hotel bookings are nothing like ticketing on fare stage buses or rail tickets, except advances.

I fail to see why they're any different.

But in the end you could choose to have a named booking with the protection that showing ID allows a reprint, or you could choose not to and accept that that means you're 100% responsible for ensuring you can show the ticket on demand and can be prosecuted if you don't, regardless of whether it's an e-ticket and your battery has run out or it's a paper ticket and you've dropped it on the track or left it at home.

I know which I'd choose. They have my name anyway as booker (the only way to obtain a wholly untraceable anonymous ticket is to purchase a paper ticket for cash), simply restricting the ticket to my use so I can show ID instead if I lose it or can't show it is no skin off my nose.

 

[mike57]

simply restricting the ticket to my use so I can show ID instead if I lose it or can't show it is no skin off my nose.

Am I correct in saying that in China tickets are linked to your ID (passport/ID card) and that showing your ID at the barriers gains entry, there is no 'ticket' in the accepted sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Am I correct in saying that in China tickets are linked to your ID (passport/ID card)

Yes they are.

and that showing your ID at the barriers gains entry, there is no 'ticket' in the accepted sense.

Not unless that's changed recently (which it may have done) - you used to have to show both. But that's mainly because if you don't have something with your seat number/coach on it (all Chinese long distance trains are reservation only) you're going to have a bit of a mess of passengers not knowing where to go?

 

[Haywain]

Am I correct in saying that in China tickets are linked to your ID (passport/ID card) and that showing your ID at the barriers gains entry, there is no 'ticket' in the accepted sense.

All that sort of thing is easier when you have separate long-distance and local services, barriered off from each other. Now, when we have HS2...

 

[Bletchleyite]

All that sort of thing is easier when you have separate long-distance and local services, barriered off from each other. Now, if we had HS2...

...it still wouldn't have that, because "Avanti" services are used as local services further north.

 

[AM9]

I fail to see why they're any different.

I've moved on from this point now but will point out for your benefit: Coaches and hotel bookings (that you cannot tell the difference from) are for a service with a limited capacity, just like planes and most ship jopurneys. With fare stage buses and most rail journeys in the UK, capacity is usually self-limited by the passengers who cannot or will not board a fully loaded vehicle. bear in mind that 2/3 of rail journeys are started, ended or entirely within the south-east and thus walk-up fares represent the norm. In general, passengers expect the freedom to use any train at will within the validity of the fare paid.

 

[island]

Yes they are.



Not unless that's changed recently (which it may have done) - you used to have to show both. But that's mainly because if you don't have something with your seat number/coach on it (all Chinese long distance trains are reservation only) you're going to have a bit of a mess of passengers not knowing where to go?

You can just scan your ID at the barrier. Your coach and seat number are kept in an app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've moved on from this point now but will point out for your benefit: Coaches and hotel bookings (that you cannot tell the difference from) are for a service with a limited capacity, just like planes and most ship jopurneys. With fare stage buses and most rail journeys in the UK, capacity is usually self-limited by the passengers who cannot or will not board a fully loaded vehicle. bear in mind that 2/3 of rail journeys are started, ended or entirely within the south-east and thus walk-up fares represent the norm. In general, passengers expect the freedom to use any train at will within the validity of the fare paid.

None of which has anything to do with the point I made, which is of being able to reprint tickets against production of ID.

 

[miklcct]

All it would require is for tickets to be named - optionally of course - but if it is named you could, if unable to show it at the time, accept a Penalty Fare and appeal it providing the ticket PDF a limited number of times per year.

This is already done in terms of season tickets. It needs to be extended to advance purchase tickets.

 

[Via Bank]

Again, I highlight that if you go to SNCF ticket machines, you can simply quote your PNR (booking reference) and the surname in which the booking was made. It will print your ticket, and/or re-send you the email with a PDF and wallet pass. This isn't a question of whether ID needs to be associated with the ticket, it's about being able to retrieve your booking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, I highlight that if you go to SNCF ticket machines, you can simply quote your PNR (booking reference) and the surname in which the booking was made. It will print your ticket, and/or re-send you the email with a PDF and wallet pass. This isn't a question of whether ID needs to be associated with the ticket, it's about being able to retrieve your booking.

Doubt I would have the PNR if my phone had run out! I'd rather show ID.

Of course both could be offered.

 

[Krokodil]

I find it amazing how fast phones can charge up these days. A passenger tells me that their phone is dead, I produce a USB cable and plug it into the train's socket and within seconds their phone has 60% charge. Incredible! Now where's that ticket?...

Yes, there are a small minority of honest passengers who have genuinely run out of charge and aren't carrying so much as a USB cable. You can tell who they are because they're clearly worried and genuinely grateful when the cable is produced. Some are proactive enough to seek me out on the platform. Most "me phone's dieeeeed" passengers though are trying it on.

 

[Hazlehead]

If paper was a brave new technology invented today it would be rightly decried as an unsuitable ticket medium for all the things that could go wrong with it. Ink could rub off, the printer could fail, you could lose it, too easy to deface, no need to kill trees to fulfil passenger journeys, needs expensive machinery to fulfil we can ill afford, etc etc etc.

People on this forum would also invent other, novel reasons paper tickets couldn't work that none of us have ever seen happen in reality.

If only there was a like button.. absolutely spot on