East Anglia Franchise ITT published: Norwich in 90*

[colchesterken]

That is bad for the competition. Not that I think they did a good job when they had it, but the more in the frame sharpens up the others, So we now have ABA with all the problems and the bad press and First who had it before and frankly I cannot remember if they were any good
I would like to have seen Chiltern in the game they seem to be doing well in my old homeland I remember the 117 s on the Aylesbury in the 80s I know BR did the Improvements and handed it to Chiltern on a plate but they seem to have kept up the momentum
Come back BR all is forgiven

 

[F Great Eastern]

Maybe NatEx were told they would have to make an investment...

The fact that broken information screens and station defects were allowed to persist for years and stations looked like they had been run into the ground for years never seemed to be a problem for National Express.

They couldn't even manage any refurb of any trains other then bargain basement refurbs or even paint their trains properly with were one franchise with many famous rainbow (no pun intended) MK3 formations!

Abellio are no great shakes, but they're like world beaters compared to what came before them. Some stock and stations got no TLC in the whole time NXEA/None were in East Anglia. They have had to deal with 7-8 years of the whole area being run down prior to them taking over.

Hopefully First would win the franchise and resurrect the First Great Eastern brand, an award winning company constantly winning awards, the most punctual operator out of London, and Train Operator of the year at the time they lost the franchise.

It's quite spectacular the damage NXEA did to what generally were two very popular companies in First Great Eastern and Anglia Railways, they undid a lot of hard work in a very short space of time with their extreme penny pinching.

Some links
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/3086712.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/essex/2997402.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2906929.stm

Also this is quite interesting (Column 1579 onwards)
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo030711/debtext/30711-24.htm

Reading Richard Bowker's comments are quite amusing bearing in mind the operator who was chosen and their later performance.

 

[HH]

Scroll on to see the response - and who it was from.

In the light of more recent history, I think that no-one can have any doubt (just like FGE employees had no doubt at the time) that Bob Russell's claims were true. On this one it was "Anyone But Finch", due to Dean getting a rather good deal on handing back the keys at NWT.

Of course Dean is now running NX; always a smart cookie, I can see him pulling out if he thought that the franchise wasn't worth bidding for.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Not quite yet. First are only out if they aren't awarded the GA franchise (due somepoint soon) and if they manage to lose the GWML franchise. ATM, both seem fairly safe bets, considering NX pulled out of the running for Greater Anglia.

Has it been confirmed that NX have pulled out of East Anglia or is that just a rumour?

I might have to open a bottle of champagne if it's true!

 

[DasLunatic]

I heard today (through the grapevine mind!) that NatEx had dropped out and only First and Abellio/Stagecoach remain. Any truth in that?

Mod for mods: This is from another thread

Looks that way.

 

[JaJaWa]

Where has NX dropping their Anglia bid been mentioned?

 

[fgwrich]

Journalists on WNXX say announcement is 0700 Wednesday

And NX out of GE? I Hope that's true, especially after the last mess they left it in! I might have a drink to celebrate if true! Not just give it over to First, bring some of GWs management over - Hopwood is ex FGE, bring Pullman Dining back and improve the service at no end!

 

[Simon11]

Where has NX dropping their Anglia bid been mentioned?

I'd also love to know where this rumour came from.

As far as i know NX have not dropped out from the EA franchise- *cough another bidder*

I wonder if there is now a clash with arriva and first taking rolling stock that a bidder wishes to use on EA.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I doubt there would be much of the old management coming back, I didn't realise Hopwood worked at FGE though. Of the top dogs, Dave Kaye has been out of the industry a long time and Bob Breakwell must be in his 70s at least now, but some of the more junior managers might have a chance.

FGE generally were well liked by passengers and staff alike, which is very rare!

 

[dk1]

So Abellio are now bidding for the Anglia franchise alone & are no longer in a joint venture with Stagecoach. The latters companies shares have had a significant drop this morning.

 

[F Great Eastern]

So Abellio are now bidding for the Anglia franchise alone & are no longer in a joint venture with Stagecoach. The latters companies shares have had a significant drop this morning.

More speculation?

 

[dk1]

More speculation?

Internal email to all employees.

 

[JaJaWa]

Surely by Stagecoach not winning TPE, they would want more of a chance at Anglia, not less?

 

[HH]

I doubt there would be much of the old management coming back, I didn't realise Hopwood worked at FGE though. Of the top dogs, Dave Kaye has been out of the industry a long time and Bob Breakwell must be in his 70s at least now, but some of the more junior managers might have a chance.

FGE generally were well liked by passengers and staff alike, which is very rare!

Mark never worked at FGE; he was at FNW. BB did some work on First bids after retiring, but has retired from even that AFAIK. Dave Kaye now works for his own consultancy.

Pretty much all the original directors, and their replacements, are retired, except the FDs (two are still in First, Nick Chevis and Dave Gausby, and Wilma Allen is CFO at GTR). Danny Fox (who was Ops Director in the latter part of the franchise) went to TPE (along with a couple of other Ops people) and then to NR, last I heard. Lots of other managers retired or left during NX's tenure; only a smattering are still there.

No-one is irreplaceable however, what is important is the direction from the top. The current MD is a nice bloke, with his heart in the right place, but doesn't inspire the sort of respect (and yes fear) that Bob did...

 

[dk1]

Surely by Stagecoach not winning TPE, they would want more of a chance at Anglia, not less?

You would think but we will have to wait for the reason given. The truth normally comes out much later :roll:

 

[JaJaWa]

You would think but we will have to wait for the reason given. The truth normally comes out much later :roll:

Here we go:

@philatrail
Stagecoach has pulled out of its 40% joint bid with Abellio for East Anglia franchise. Said it could not agree with elements of the bid.
2 hours ago - View on Twitter

 

[HH]

Franchising update
The Group has 40% of a joint venture with Abellio, which
is shortlisted to bid for a new East Anglia rail franchise.
We have been unable to reach an agreement with
Abellio on elements of the proposed bid. As a result of
that, and taking account of the other rail bidding
opportunities that we anticipate over the next two years,
we have decided not to proceed with an equity
participation in the bid for the new East Anglia franchise.
We have confirmed to Abellio our commitment to
provide support and advice to the franchise if Abellio’s
bid is successful.

http://www.stagecoach.com/~/media/Files/S/Stagecoach-Group/Attachments/media/press/pr2015/2015-12-09.pdf

Having worked with both I'm not surprised that they fell out. Abellio are happy with much lower profit margins than Stagecoach for a start.

 

[F Great Eastern]

You ought to know by now, nothing is predictable in GA franchise.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Mark never worked at FGE; he was at FNW. BB did some work on First bids after retiring, but has retired from even that AFAIK. Dave Kaye now works for his own consultancy.

Pretty much all the original directors, and their replacements, are retired, except the FDs (two are still in First, Nick Chevis and Dave Gausby, and Wilma Allen is CFO at GTR). Danny Fox (who was Ops Director in the latter part of the franchise) went to TPE (along with a couple of other Ops people) and then to NR, last I heard. Lots of other managers retired or left during NX's tenure; only a smattering are still there.

No-one is irreplaceable however, what is important is the direction from the top. The current MD is a nice bloke, with his heart in the right place, but doesn't inspire the sort of respect (and yes fear) that Bob did...

Mark Hopwood was MD of London Lines - which of course - pre the split into Greater Anglia and Thameslink Great Northern - had the West Anglia (GN) operation. A very big job that was to be fair.

 

[Bald Rick]

Stagecoach have a very good reputation for winning the right franchises, and sniffing out those that are trouble.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Having seen the way NX ran WAGN, it should have been no surprise to anyone how badly they ran None/NXEA.

Many of the issues with that franchise, later manifested themselves with the overall greater anglia one.

Wone of the reasons that that FCC suffered so muc was down toyears of it being run down by WAGN.

 

[Sleepy]

Decided the numbers don't add up now Shenfield Metro / WA inners have gone ?

 

[Dave1987]

Decided the numbers don't add up now Shenfield Metro / WA inners have gone ?

I think that probably has a lot to do with it. The Metro's brought in a lot of revenue.
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Stagecoach have a very good reputation for winning the right franchises, and sniffing out those that are trouble.

I think you have probably hit the nail on the head there. The GE mainline requires a lot of money to be spent on it, but the DFT has just agreed to a 30% cut in its funding. I've heard on the grapevine that a lot of the TSR's that have been in for months are because Network Rail simply doesn't have the budget to do the track replacements to get the speed orders lifted. That is just rumour mind you but it would make sense. I think Stagecoach probably see the franchise as more hassle than its worth.

 

[Pugwash]

The Franchise needs a lot of money spent on it at exactly the wrong time, New Rolling Stock for Norwich, Heavy refurbishment on the 321's 360's have to be coming up for something other than just new seat covers now.

This is before you take into account the number of new houses being built along the line and the subsequent increase in passenger numbers.

The Franchise has no spare rolling stock to allow decent numbers of the fleet to go out of service at the same time for the work they need.

All at the same time as the DFT has a 30pct budget cut, this franchise is going to be expected to put a lot more cash into the treasury.

 

[HH]

I think that probably has a lot to do with it. The Metro's brought in a lot of revenue.

Not true I fear. The big money is on the GEML; same as it ever was.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mark Hopwood was MD of London Lines - which of course - pre the split into Greater Anglia and Thameslink Great Northern - had the West Anglia (GN) operation. A very big job that was to be fair.

Yes, Mark was at NX between his times at First. Mark is a very good MD in my opinion, but unlikely to move to EA from GWR.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Forgot about Dave Gatsby, must be pretty close to retirement himself! Can't see MH moving to GA though.

GEML has been run down for a number of years with lots of new stock needed, the new franchise will almost certainly be refurbed stock from elsewhere reading the spec.

 

[MrPIC]

I'm secretly glad Stagecoach are out of the running, I despise their owner and his views!

 

[Dave1987]

Not true I fear. The big money is on the GEML; same as it ever was.

I didn't say that there wasn't a lot of revenue on GEML, the like of Chelmsford and Colchester see huge amounts of passengers. But losing the Metro's to TFL will have given the balance sheets a big hit considering how busy they are.

 

[hwl]

Not true I fear. The big money is on the GEML; same as it ever was.

But the split off metro operator will now be offering a better service in a few years so lots of more GEML passengers may get off and swap to Crossrail at Stratford instead of changing to the tube a Liverpool Street which could mean them losing a few quid a trip /passenger which could add up to quite a bit given the potential numbers doing it.

 

[HH]

I didn't say that there wasn't a lot of revenue on GEML, the like of Chelmsford and Colchester see huge amounts of passengers. But losing the Metro's to TFL will have given the balance sheets a big hit considering how busy they are.

It will have affected cashflow, but a lot of Metro income is washed through TfL, and a fare from Ipswich is ten times a fare from Ilford; so not as much as you think.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But the split off metro operator will now be offering a better service in a few years so lots of more GEML passengers may get off and swap to Crossrail at Stratford instead of changing to the tube a Liverpool Street which could mean them losing a few quid a trip /passenger which could add up to quite a bit given the potential numbers doing it.

I fully expect to see that, but an awful lot of people going to Liverpool Street walk to work and loads already get off at Stratford (if you want to get on the Central Line it's the smart option, for instance).