East Coast Franchise

[Scotrail88]

With the award due in the next few weeks, has there been any leaks giving any indication of who's in the running.

 

[scotsman]

With the award due in the next few weeks, has there been any leaks giving any indication of who's in the running.

Lots of the staff think it's First, none of them are happy about that

 

[Aictos]

Lots of the staff think it's First, none of them are happy about that

Neither do they want Virgin, Eurostar bid seems popular with EC colleagues to me.

 

[Robertj21a]

Neither do they want Virgin, Eurostar bid seems popular with EC colleagues to me.

I'm confused, when you say Virgin do you mean Stagecoach ?

 

[Suraggu]

No indication at all. Usually one of the big papers leak it 24-48 hours before the official announcement.

Stagecoach 90%/Virgin 10% formed InterCity railways as their business name, First Group formed East Coast Trains and Eurostar/Keolis formed Eurostar/Keolis.... :\.

The ITT was pretty well specified in regards to minimum service requirements, trains staff, but the surprises will be who is running to new destinations, that's pretty much it.

In regards to staff chatter, all 3 have proven records to run rail franchises so I'm not worried at all.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can see why First arnt popular amongst staff, they have bad rep in many of the areas EC Covers. On the flip side I wonder if the CC Would have issues with them getting it due to the good rep and qualitty of Open Access Hull Trains? As a fan of Virgin/SC I'd be happy and cant understand why staff dont want them? Maybe someone can enlighten me? E-Star etc etc would be interesting but thats all I can say with my limmited knoledge of them.↲

 

[gith]

"InterCity Eastern" or something could be nice, they could even bring back a retro livery on the IC225 sets!

 

[KX03HZY]

My bet is on Keolis/Eurostar, and the award possibly tommorow

 

[Aictos]

I was told the reason most staff were NOT looking forward to Virgin/Stagecoach was the proposed staffing cuts they were proposing, Eurostar/Keolis seem quite popular as to First I couldn't comment but if not for DfT cocking it up First would currently be operating the WCML which they won.

 

[SkinnyDave]

If First do not win it then I'd be inclined to think the knives are out!
Out of the three I'd like to see Eurostar/Keolis have a go and wonder if they would be able to offer deals on Europe travel along with domestic travel as part of the franchise..

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was told the reason most staff were NOT looking forward to Virgin/Stagecoach was the proposed staffing cuts they were proposing, Eurostar/Keolis seem quite popular as to First I couldn't comment but if not for DfT cocking it up First would currently be operating the WCML which they won.

Keolis would be the majority owner if their bid succeeded, Eurostar would be the junior partner.
But behind the bid sits SNCF which has a majority share in both companies.
I don't know see how "staff cuts" can figure as nobody knows the content of the bids.
It's also difficult to see a scenario where ICEC shrinks its operation.
Somebody has to run all those IEPs.

 

[DarloRich]

Another great day for the railways – A successful public body returning a premium to the government sold off cheap to meet a dogmatic need to help decent Tory chaps make more money. Pip Pip, pass the port old bean :cry:

 

[jon0844]

Stagecoach 90%/Virgin 10% formed InterCity railways as their business name, First Group formed East Coast Trains and Eurostar/Keolis formed Eurostar/Keolis.... :\.

That'll be how First wins then. The DfT franchising process is now basically someone choosing the bid with the best name...

 

[Robertj21a]

.
I'll put my money on the Stagecoach bid. Brian Souter is a clever cookie at these things.

 

[ainsworth74]

Another great day for the railways – A successful public body returning a premium to the government sold off cheap to meet a dogmatic need to help decent Tory chaps make more money. Pip Pip, pass the port old bean

If previous awards are any indication cheap is one thing it won't be!

No idea whose going to win it but I'd like to see Eurostar/Keolis personally!

 

[alexl92]

Theoretically my preference is the Virgin/Stagecoach bid, but I don't want to see the EC 91s in Virgin Red, and Stagecoach's livery on busses looks tacky enough.. the ideal would be that they create a new corporate branding for Intercity Railways. Preferably something either inspired by the IC Swallow livery or something smart and traditional rather than attempting to be super-modern like First.

If the Eurostar bid wins, it'll be a crying shame to have our main London - Edinburgh route essentially operated by the french.

 

[47802]

Theoretically my preference is the Virgin/Stagecoach bid, but I don't want to see the EC 91s in Virgin Red, and Stagecoach's livery on busses looks tacky enough.. the ideal would be that they create a new corporate branding for Intercity Railways. Preferably something either inspired by the IC Swallow livery or something smart and traditional rather than attempting to be super-modern like First.

If the Eurostar bid wins, it'll be a crying shame to have our main London - Edinburgh route essentially operated by the french.

Personally I think it might be preferable to a S*** Scottish bus company. or another S*** Scottish bus company with possible beardy branding.

 

[Busaholic]

If the Eurostar bid wins, it'll be a crying shame to have our main London - Edinburgh route essentially operated by the french.

The SNP won't mind, they're always trying to play up the Auld Alliance: mind you, haven't noticed the French reciprocating.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Another great day for the railways – A successful public body returning a premium to the government sold off cheap to meet a dogmatic need to help decent Tory chaps make more money. Pip Pip, pass the port old bean :cry:

Isn't the idea that ICEC will deliver more money for the government than the current in-house deal?
It's not just that there is a premium, it's about how much.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

"InterCity Eastern" or something could be nice, they could even bring back a retro livery on the IC225 sets!

Yes, that would be nice. I liked that livery when the sadly short lived Marylebone to Shropshire had it.

 

[Bodiddly]

Stick a tenner on First. I have previously predicted the outcome of the Sleeper and the Scotrail franchises so it must be First!
Seriously though, the word is, First group are throwing all their eggs into the East Coast basket, and going all out to win it. Some have also said they have sacrificed Scotrail and the sleeper so they had no conflict of interest with running Anglo Scottish routes. I wouldn't worry too much about the TUPE over to them either, I have never had a problem working for First and have found them a very decent employer. Several of my colleagues have also indicated if they were to keep a maintenance operation in Inverness, they would try to stay with First.

 

[CockneySparrow]

I think First have won it, and think it has been decided a while back
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone know when the best time to cut and run with the EC rewards, currently got 1 free ticket to use and a few points towards a second ticket

 

[Suraggu]

That'll be how First wins then. The DfT franchising process is now basically someone choosing the bid with the best name...

I was just stating the bidders and their business names... Not who is going to win the franchise just from the business name..... .

 

[3141]

Stick a tenner on First. I have previously predicted the outcome of the Sleeper and the Scotrail franchises so it must be First!
Seriously though, the word is, First group are throwing all their eggs into the East Coast basket, and going all out to win it. Some have also said they have sacrificed Scotrail and the sleeper so they had no conflict of interest with running Anglo Scottish routes. I wouldn't worry too much about the TUPE over to them either, I have never had a problem working for First and have found them a very decent employer. Several of my colleagues have also indicated if they were to keep a maintenance operation in Inverness, they would try to stay with First.

It wouldn't surprise me that First really want to win East Coast. In the past Sea Containers went all out to win their second franchise, and so did National Express a few years later. It did not work out well for either of them. First appear to have gone all out to win West Coast, and there is a fairly widespread view that if the DfT had not messed up, and First had got the franchise, they would now be facing problems.

If First don't win, I don't think we should read into that anything other than that another bid was better - not "knives are out" or anything like that. Companies can do well for a time, and then they do less well. There was a short period when National Express had eight franchises; now they have one. Before First got Greater Western and FCC they had only two franchises, and if they don't get EC they'll have two again.

I doubt that they had to worry much about conflict of interest if they had managed to keep Scotrail. It costs so much to mount a franchise bid that no company is likely to spend all that money and effort but not really try to win. Knowingly letting Scotrail and the Sleeper get away in order to focus on East Coast, which you can't be sure of winning unless you put in such a huge bid that you won't be able to make it work, is something no business in its right mind would do.

 

[Bodiddly]

It wouldn't surprise me that First really want to win East Coast. In the past Sea Containers went all out to win their second franchise, and so did National Express a few years later. It did not work out well for either of them. First appear to have gone all out to win West Coast, and there is a fairly widespread view that if the DfT had not messed up, and First had got the franchise, they would now be facing problems.

If First don't win, I don't think we should read into that anything other than that another bid was better - not "knives are out" or anything like that. Companies can do well for a time, and then they do less well. There was a short period when National Express had eight franchises; now they have one. Before First got Greater Western and FCC they had only two franchises, and if they don't get EC they'll have two again.

I doubt that they had to worry much about conflict of interest if they had managed to keep Scotrail. It costs so much to mount a franchise bid that no company is likely to spend all that money and effort but not really try to win. Knowingly letting Scotrail and the Sleeper get away in order to focus on East Coast, which you can't be sure of winning unless you put in such a huge bid that you won't be able to make it work, is something no business in its right mind would do.

The millions these companies shell out for franchising is already set aside from other profits. They can afford to throw away several million quid on a bid. It's peanuts to them. Franchise bidding is not like a company throwing away money if they don't win, it's more like a disappointing set back in their growth forecast.
First will be looking at the big prize in profit terms, East Coast is worth more to them than the sleeper or Scotrail put together. I'm no expert, but is that not how big business works?

 

[Tetchytyke]

First will win it because the cretins at DafT want to make it up to them after ballsing up the West Coast franchise.

The idea of Worst Group destroying the best intercity railway operator in the country sends shivers down my spine. The only positive from Worst getting it is that Souter won't. But that's a tiny positive, given just how spectacularly amazingly appalling Worst have been with their other franchises. Great Western is dire, Trans Pennine is even worse, and the less said about Crapital Connect the better.

At least I have the alternative of Grand Central for my trips to Bradford and North Tyneside.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Couldnt agree more about FCC and TPE, Though it must be noted Kialis have a part in that too! Never had enough experience of GW to comment.

 

[CockneySparrow]

First will win it because the cretins at DafT want to make it up to them after ballsing up the West Coast franchise.

That's what I was thinking, also the add weight to it is that FCC lost the new Great Northern franchise so now there wont be any competition issues with the OFT, that's why Govia got it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyway whoever wins it, it looks like the dismal Nectar points are coming ??????

 

[Shaggy]

First will win it because the cretins at DafT want to make it up to them after ballsing up the West Coast franchise.

The idea of Worst Group destroying the best intercity railway operator in the country sends shivers down my spine. The only positive from Worst getting it is that Souter won't. But that's a tiny positive, given just how spectacularly amazingly appalling Worst have been with their other franchises. Great Western is dire, Trans Pennine is even worse, and the less said about Crapital Connect the better.

At least I have the alternative of Grand Central for my trips to Bradford and North Tyneside.

Why the total hatred of First Group?

Has Scotrail been that bad?

 

[Suraggu]

First will win it because the cretins at DafT want to make it up to them after ballsing up the West Coast franchise.

The idea of Worst Group destroying the best intercity railway operator in the country sends shivers down my spine. The only positive from Worst getting it is that Souter won't. But that's a tiny positive, given just how spectacularly amazingly appalling Worst have been with their other franchises. Great Western is dire, Trans Pennine is even worse, and the less said about Crapital Connect the better.

At least I have the alternative of Grand Central for my trips to Bradford and North Tyneside.

I didn't realise Grand Central ran services to North Tyneside,?
I have to say most of what you posted is better in the potty. FCC yes I do not deny that for a second, the management had it all wrong, the staff had low morale and it generally was a pretty poor Franchise.

FTPE is a 50/50 split between First and Keolis iirc and I have never had any problems with them except overcrowding which is a DfT issue for not ordering more trailers for the 185's. Delays over the pennines, well a crowded two track railway, need I say anymore.

Great Western has always been the jewel in the crown for First and when the board finally brought in Railway Directors the service got better and better and they do the best with what they have. I do notice a lot of FGW issues are external and not FGW's fault.

Would be lovely though to have an additions HST for EC but I highly doubt any of the bidders will be putting that in their proposal.... even subleasing from another TOC.