East coast problems evening 26/1/2016 - diverted via Hertford

[merry]

Signalling problems tonight - reportedly in Hatfield area both ways. I'm on the 1N32 1930 Newcastle (actual d1943). Held 4 mins before Alexandra Palace both DF snd DS plus carriage washer stationary. Now diverted via Hertford, they say 'to reduce the delay'. Ph well, it's been a while since I went this way. And par for the course with severe disruption on Thameslink too (where gateline staff at West Hampstead probably exaggerated saying it was a 'signal box blown up at Tulse Hill').
I assume one reason to hold S of Ally Pally, beside congestion, would be to check the driver signs the Hertford route.

UPDATE: 36 Late after going over the Hertford Loop, even with a clear run (seems we were thankfully put in front of the local), and waiting again 3-4 mins on the DF S of Hitchin. No idea why...no excuse for a train in front crossing on the flat now the flyover's properly in service.

 

[Antman]

Signalling problems tonight - reportedly in Hatfield area both ways. I'm on the 1N32 1930 Newcastle (actual d1943). Held 4 mins before Alexandra Palace both DF snd DS plus carriage washer stationary. Now diverted via Hertford, they say 'to reduce the delay'. Ph well, it's been a while since I went this way. And par for the course with severe disruption on Thameslink too (where gateline staff at West Hampstead probably exaggerated saying it was a 'signal box blown up at Tulse Hill').
I assume one reason to hold S of Ally Pally, beside congestion, would be to check the driver signs the Hertford route.

UPDATE: 36 Late after going over the Hertford Loop, even with a clear run (seems we were thankfully put in front of the local), and waiting again 3-4 mins on the DF S of Hitchin. No idea why...no excuse for a train in front crossing on the flat now the flyover's properly in service.

There have been signal problems at Herne Hill delaying Southeastern and Thameslink services but I'm not aware of any signal box blowing up though!

 

[yorkie]

I assume one reason to hold S of Ally Pally, beside congestion, would be to check the driver signs the Hertford route.

I'd be surprised if they didn't all sign it.

...and waiting again 3-4 mins on the DF S of Hitchin. No idea why....

The 1910 KGX-PBO (which was heavily delayed around Hatfield) was held in the Stevenage area for the 1933 KGX-LDS (which had gone via Hertford, incurring less delay) to get in front, but the 1910 calls at Hitchin these days, so it had to wait for the Leeds train to clear before it could leave the Down Fast, and so you had to wait for it to clear before you could proceed.

The delay could have been kept to a minimum if there was a crossover from Down Slow to Down Fast south of Stevenage station; then all 3 trains could have been on the correct side in the first place, without conflict.

The layout at Stevenage is overly restrictive, and not fit for purpose, in my opinion.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I'd be surprised if they didn't all sign it.

The 1910 KGX-PBO (which was heavily delayed around Hatfield) was held in the Stevenage area for the 1933 KGX-LDS (which had gone via Hertford, incurring less delay) to get in front, but the 1910 calls at Hitchin these days, so it had to wait for the Leeds train to clear before it could leave the Down Fast, and so you had to wait for it to clear before you could proceed.

The delay could have been kept to a minimum if there was a crossover from Down Slow to Down Fast south of Stevenage station; then all 3 trains could have been on the correct side in the first place, without conflict.

The layout at Stevenage is overly restrictive, and not fit for purpose, in my opinion.

I think you're thinking too logically & sensibly.

I think you should moderate yourself!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There have been signal problems at Herne Hill delaying Southeastern and Thameslink services but I'm not aware of any signal box blowing up though!

I'm guessing it actually means a relay box? Given that we have had heavy driving rain today it wouldn't surprise me if water had got into somewhere undesirable.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm guessing it actually means a relay box? Given that we have had heavy driving rain today it wouldn't surprise me if water had got into somewhere undesirable.

Short circuit of the third rail to running rail caused by a can, blew various parts of the track circuit and insulation rather spectacularly.

Another reason why OLE is better...

 

[bramling]

Short circuit of the third rail to running rail caused by a can, blew various parts of the track circuit and insulation rather spectacularly.

Another reason why OLE is better...

Hardly reassuring to think that more areas will be vulnerable to delays on the third-rail system when Thameslin Programme's expansion occurs.

 

[tsr]

Short circuit of the third rail to running rail caused by a can, blew various parts of the track circuit and insulation rather spectacularly.

Another reason why OLE is better...

I shall remind you of this next time a plastic bag gets caught in the contact wire at Stevenage

 

[NSEFAN]

At least with 25kV OLE you can tell the difference between a train and a short circuit!

 

[QueensCurve]

UPDATE: 36 Late after going over the Hertford Loop, even with a clear run (seems we were thankfully put in front of the local), and waiting again 3-4 mins on the DF S of Hitchin. No idea why...no excuse for a train in front crossing on the flat now the flyover's properly in service.

I do get the impression quite a lot of trains are not using the Hitchen flyover. What is the reason for this?

 

[bramling]

I do get the impression quite a lot of trains are not using the Hitchen flyover. What is the reason for this?

The main reason for not using the flyover could be if an overtake is being done, with an all-stations Cambridge train held on the flyover whilst a faster train takes the old route. Bear in mind this is the last realistic overtake opportunity before Cambridge (Royston will affect the up line), so a fast train getting stuck behind an all-stations will lose 10-15 mins potentially.

Otherwise, the flyover might not be used if the signaller is departing a down Peterborough train from Hitchin platform. I think freight trains also avoid it due to gradients, although I'm not sure if/what the actual restriction may be.

I'm sure others will be able to expand on this, but I think the overtake facility is the main reason for using the old route.

It's worth adding that whilst the flyover gives various new options to the signallers in terms of train movements, it can't always resolve the situation of out-of-path trains trying to use the same sections of railway. Only a right-time railway can achieve that when everything runs to book and in its planned path.