East Midlands Railway short formed services

[LowLevel]

If they can get everyone trained on the 170s, can any new ones that arrive go straight into service? Hopefully they won't go immediately for refurbishment/repainting - the 360s didn't and they sound to be in a worse condition internally than any 170s I can think of.

Is there any Skegness strengthening in half term week?

Now some in-person office work is resuming I'm probably going to have to put in an appearance at the Manchester office at some point. Hoping to postpone that as long as possible.

273 did go into traffic in white but the Welsh ones have a very different maintenance regime by the sound of it to be standardised. They've all been painted and presumably will just be vinyled.

Don't know whether they'll strengthen October half term. Possibly the usual weekend and Monday/Friday bits.

 

[londonmidland]

Kind of ironic EMR are advertising on the radio and TV, to visit various regional destinations across their network, followed by ‘Travel with confidence’

 

[dk1]

06:51 ex-Norwich took the Dore curve again this morning after departing Nottingham 27 down. Made a few minutes up to Chesterfield but amazing what this recovers as arrived Piccadilly 2 mins early.

 

[Killingworth]

06:51 ex-Norwich took the Dore curve again this morning after departing Nottingham 27 down. Made a few minutes up to Chesterfield but amazing what this recovers as arrived Piccadilly 2 mins early.

But probably not short formed as it should have been connected to incoming 2S04 Skegness service at Nottingham. Did that happen?

 

[dk1]

But probably not short formed as it should have been connected to incoming 2S04 Skegness service at Nottingham. Did that happen?

No idea. It sat at Nottingham for 42 minutes though.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I do frequent checks throughout the day for service issues on the EMR app. I think today was the first time in ages the Liverpool route hasn't been affected. Have any trains returned back into service these past few days to help service levels?

 

[Skymonster]

But almost every service in the Robin Hood was short-formed today…

 

[tommy2215]

According to RTT, EMR plan to go back to a full service on Liverpool-Norwich bar one train but all the other decimated routes continue their much reduced service. Unsurprisingly their promise of the temporary timetable lasting only until December doesn't seem to have been met.

 

[Killingworth]

According to RTT, EMR plan to go back to a full service on Liverpool-Norwich bar one train but all the other decimated routes continue their much reduced service. Unsurprisingly their promise of the temporary timetable lasting only until December doesn't seem to have been met.

After over promising in May, and having major difficulty delivering even the slimmed timetable (and with full length trains), it's a start.

The reduced timetable was announced with an implication that some restoration might be possible before December, or was that wishful thinking? Realistically, without positive news of new stock introduction, delay until a robust reintroduction can come by May is making the best of a bad job.. Question is, can it even be done by then?

Since last weekend It seems to have been mostly 4 car between Nottingham and Liverpool, albeit a 156 on many.

 

[43055]

According to RTT, EMR plan to go back to a full service on Liverpool-Norwich bar one train but all the other decimated routes continue their much reduced service. Unsurprisingly their promise of the temporary timetable lasting only until December doesn't seem to have been met.

Newark to Crewe gets an extra diagram which means only 1 train every 5 hours will be missed but Skegness now gets a few 2 hour gaps.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I've noticed on the EMR app that some of the Skegness trains today are 4 carriages instead of 2.

 

[LowLevel]

I've noticed on the EMR app that some of the Skegness trains today are 4 carriages instead of 2.

A diagram is 4 car 15x vice 3 car 170.

 

[londonmidland]

Quite a few trains reported as full and standing on the Liverpool-Norwich route. Not sure if this is down to short forms or just because a lot of people are travelling.

Does anyone know if there’s any events on anywhere along the route today, which could contribute to this?

(11/09)

 

[43055]

Quite a few trains reported as full and standing on the Liverpool-Norwich route. Not sure if this is down to short forms or just because a lot of people are travelling.

Does anyone know if there’s any events on anywhere along the route today, which could contribute to this?

(11/09)

Probably football related I would say. Sheffield United are playing Peterborough United (at Sheffield) while Leicester City play Manchester City (at Leicester).

 

[Foxcover]

The big Heaton Park music festival in Manchester this weekend will also be part of it at that end of the route - a lot of people heading there by train and metrolink, TfGM warning regular travellers on their website and Twitter feed

 

[Llandudno]

Got caught up in the EMR mayhem this morning.

0920 from Chesterfield to Liverpool, 2 car 158 full and standing arriving at Chesterfield where 50+ where waiting to board some managed to board at Chesterfield but many left behind.

On arrival at Sheffield chaos, a handful wanted to alight but circa 100 wanted to board. Tempers frayed on the platform, people demanding to be let on. After much argy bargy a handful of the Sheffield passengers boarded the train and left Sheffield 10 minutes late, crush loaded with poor air conditioning all the way to Manchester.

Mix of passengers on board:
Usual Saturday daytime drinking/party crowd to Manchester and Liverpool
Manchester United ‘home’ fans going to Old Trafford
Park Life Festival goers

My journey was for none of those reasons!

perhaps it was as well the cricket test match at Old Trafford was cancelled after all!

 

[Killingworth]

Got caught up in the EMR mayhem this morning.

0920 from Chesterfield to Liverpool, 2 car 158 full and standing arriving at Chesterfield where 50+ where waiting to board some managed to board at Chesterfield but many left behind.

On arrival at Sheffield chaos, a handful wanted to alight but circa 100 wanted to board. Tempers frayed on the platform, people demanding to be let on. After much argy bargy a handful of the Sheffield passengers boarded the train and left Sheffield 10 minutes late, crush loaded with poor air conditioning all the way to Manchester.

Mix of passengers on board:
Usual Saturday daytime drinking/party crowd to Manchester and Liverpool
Manchester United ‘home’ fans going to Old Trafford
Park Life Festival goers

My journey was for none of those reasons!

perhaps it was as well the cricket test match at Old Trafford was cancelled after all!

Anyone wanting to travel between Sheffield and Manchester at present should be very strongly advised to use TPE or Northern services. Which is what they are encouraged to do by ticket pricing! But occasional users and those joining earlier may not realise what they're letting themselves in for.

I've witnessed the EMR mayhem at Sheffield on a Saturday morning. It happens too regularly for it not to have been noticed by the station managers who are - EMR!

EMR have a page on their website giving a heat map of services. On the section between the two cities it shows all trains on Saturday with 276 seats. The 9.37 shows as orange, busy. None are rated red, crowded. OK, how many Class 158 carriages add up to 276 seats? If 100 wanted to board at Chesterfield it isn't 2!

Management can't be so blind as not to be able to at least update their heat map! These trains would be busy with 4 coaches. TPEs 6 will be well loaded at these times. Northern had 2 car Pacers 3 years ago. On Saturdays their 3 car 195s or 4 car 150s are now busy.

The leisure market is doing very well.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, They should definitely be directing people to the TPE services between Sheffield and Manchester. Particularly as these are now six carriages.

It sounds as though it's getting to the stage where questions ought to be asked in the House about EMR. A few less 135's surely can't explain the levels of short forming being reported.

 

[ashworth]

Yes, They should definitely be directing people to the TPE services between Sheffield and Manchester. Particularly as these are now six carriages.

It sounds as though it's getting to the stage where questions ought to be asked in the House about EMR. A few less 135's surely can't explain the levels of short forming being reported.

Questions do not seem to be being asked anywhere. Nothing from MPs or in the press. Questions do need to be asked and quickly.

This temporary inadequate reduced timetable has been in operation for 3 months now. We were told the reduced timetable was to help run a reliable service without cancellations and short formed trains. We were led to believe that it was an emergency temporary measure and some trains would be restored to the timetable by September. Now it’s not going to happen until December which is another 3 months away. There have been some indications in these forums that some routes may not now get their full timetables back then. Will it then be next May or never.

At first I had a bit of sympathy for EMR with staff shortages, due to covid, and problems maintaining the old 156 and 158 stock. However, things are not getting that much better. EMR might have lost a few 153s but on the regional side they haven’t lost any other stock since EMT days. They have in fact already gained a few 170’s. With some routes currently running at very reduced timetables where are all the units from these trains cut from the timetables?
Problems like the overcrowding between Nottingham and Liverpool on Saturday mornings and as others have reported on the RHL on Saturday afternoons will only get worse as more leisure passengers try to use the trains as Christmas approaches.

 

[yorksrob]

Questions do not seem to be being asked anywhere. Nothing from MPs or in the press. Questions do need to be asked and quickly.

This temporary inadequate reduced timetable has been in operation for 3 months now. We were told the reduced timetable was to help run a reliable service without cancellations and short formed trains. We were led to believe that it was an emergency temporary measure and some trains would be restored to the timetable by September. Now it’s not going to happen until December which is another 3 months away. There have been some indications in these forums that some routes may not now get their full timetables back then. Will it then be next May or never.

At first I had a bit of sympathy for EMR with staff shortages, due to covid, and problems maintaining the old 156 and 158 stock. However, things are not getting that much better. EMR might have lost a few 153s but on the regional side they haven’t lost any other stock since EMT days. They have in fact already gained a few 170’s. With some routes currently running at very reduced timetables where are all the units from these trains cut from the timetables?
Problems like the overcrowding between Nottingham and Liverpool on Saturday mornings and as others have reported on the RHL on Saturday afternoons will only get worse as more leisure passengers try to use the trains as Christmas approaches.

Indeed. The fact that they're running a reduced timetable means that there should be more stock for the services they do run to be full length. The current situation defies all logic.

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes, They should definitely be directing people to the TPE services between Sheffield and Manchester. Particularly as these are now six carriages.

It sounds as though it's getting to the stage where questions ought to be asked in the House about EMR. A few less 135's surely can't explain the levels of short forming being reported.

Will you be reporting this to your MP ?

 

[yorksrob]

Will you be reporting this to your MP ?

I doubt they'd be that concerned since EMR aren't a major operator on their constituency.

Needs to come from a local.

 

[Jamesrob637]

According to RTT, EMR plan to go back to a full service on Liverpool-Norwich bar one train but all the other decimated routes continue their much reduced service. Unsurprisingly their promise of the temporary timetable lasting only until December doesn't seem to have been met.

The problem is that, unless I've misinterpreted, the missing train is the 09:45 from Manchester. This is inconvenient for off-peak travel through the Peak District.

 

[ricoblade]

Happened on Saturday morning. 2 car arrived at Sheffield going to Liverpool, already crowded and couldn't fit all the waiting passengers on. Cue the station team trying to disembark anyone for Manchester and pointing them to the next Manchester service. Still didn't get everyone on board and departed late like two sardine cans!

 

[Mariner16]

More failures on the Cleethorpes to Barton upon Humber line, more buses than trains at the minute. Believe 156 training starting imminently?

 

[chrisdevlin]

I did actually get in touch with my MP about this back in June/July, who forwarded my questions onto the DfT. Attached is their response. Doesn't really say much tbh.

 

[LowLevel]

To illustrate the fluid nature of train allocations, I've been on the same trains for 2 days. The first part of the job is booked 170/2 car, the second 156/2 car. Yesterday this did indeed produce as booked. Today the 170 is a 156, and the 156 is a 158.

There will be reasons for it - whether it's down to traction knowledge, unit faults, issues on the fuel line, exam miles and so on - but each night the relevant people have to look at the pool of trains and crew working and try and make the best they can of it.

 

[londonmidland]

The Barton-On-Humber - Cleethorpes train (153379) has broken down yet again.

Rail replacement being sourced.

 

[Mugby]

I did actually get in touch with my MP about this back in June/July, who forwarded my questions onto the DfT. Attached is their response. Doesn't really say much tbh.

I'm puzzled by the bit which says 'Both EMR and Network Rail are carrying out reviews into why the May timetable uplift failed'

What has Network Rail got to do with it? I'm not aware of any of the problems being attributed to infrastructure failures, I thought the mess was down to trains, training, staffing difficulties and maintainance problems?

It's not as if all new timetables were involved, surely May was simply supposed to be a return to the old timetable with the odd extra journey here and there, certainly nothing which could have caused the meltdown we've seen.

 

[MML]

EMR should reintroduce the stored class 153 stock until sufficient class 170s can be sourced. They obviously aren't PRM approved but surely so long as they always operate attached to PRM approved class 156 stock, then 2 or 4 car consists can instead operate as 3 or 5 car to alleviate overcrowding.
PRM utilise the 156, while able bodied sit in the 153. Better than standing or being left on the platform.
Surely a short term lease can be arranged?