The Planner
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Yuck, turning them back in P4 at Bletchley means running any Up Slow moves via the Bletchley relief lines which are 25 - 30mph. Much worse than doing it at MK which was built for that.
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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]
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Minstral25
Established Member
Never travelled north of Shepherds Bush/ West Brompton on it but I was a regular riding between West Brompton and East Croydon in 2016/7 and as a rule it was totally packed with hardly any standing room to at least Norbury where it would start to empty. Mind you I mostly travelled peak but it was always busy so I am not sure why you think it quiet south of Clapham Junction unless it has changed since 2017 because it was the opposite with a lot of direct traffic from West London line (Shepherd's Bush/West Brompton/Imperial Wharf) to Balham and Norbury.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I was travelling south in the morning peak and north in the evening peak - perhaps loadings were the other way round in the other direction?
Probably didn't help that the 0706 off Bletchley sits at Clapham for 10 minutes to regain its path; most people found it quicker to change. The rest leave Bletchley at xx17 and don't have that long stop. However that's not the only one I used; the 0817 was similar. And the 1710 and 1810 off East Croydon were very quiet until Clapham where people tended to pile on.
Just a gentle reminder that this is a thread in the infrastructure section to discuss progress updates.
Any suggestions/ideas belong in Speculative Ideas please.
Thanks
Any suggestions/ideas belong in Speculative Ideas please.
Thanks
Minstral25
Established Member
The main employment flows are from Norbury/Balham in the morning and return from Shepherds Bush/West Brompton in the evening, so yes you are travelling against the main flow. When I travelled it was often physically difficult to actually get on the train at West Brompton or Imperial Wharf in the evening in both Directions.
Class 170101
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The other issue is that you will also have a move from the Upside of Bletchley to the Down Slow crossing the slow at the north end of Bletchley. So its better to just allow the Southern service to run to Milton Keynes and have just the EWR service contemplating this crossing move, maybe upto twice per hour, once from Bedford to Milton Keynes via Bletchley (reverse) and either Oxford or Aylesbury to Milton Keynes.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't support this idea, but what's wrong with Platform 5?
Class 170101
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Still a crossing move from Platform 5 towards Milton Keynes crossing the Up Slow isn't it?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think we need to head to Speculative Ideas for this:
3141
Established Member
I’m clearing out files as we’ll be moving soon, and I’ve come across an article about East West Rail from the Sunday Telegraph on 6th July 1997. I’ll quote the most interesting bits here and will post a scan of the whole thing if it’s clear enough. Actually it will need two scans as it’s a bit too wide for one.
The headline is “Rail route aims to link east and west”, and the sub heading refers to a “New £172m. service to cut one hour off trips”. (The “m” stands for “millions” and not “minutes”!)
The scheme could be in operation as early as 2003, it was claimed. Some new stretches of line would be required, but it would also use “long stretches” of existing routes such as the East Coast main line.
That would have seemed realistic at the time, when the number of trains on the ECML north of Hitchin was smaller.
The estimated cost of £172 millions seems unbelievable today and perhaps was even then, but that’s for a line suitable for freight as well as passenger traffic, with a connection to Felixstowe. A passenger-only line would cost a mere £98 million.
I like the comment that it would “partially replace” Crossrail, the “doomed plan for a massive rail tunnel” under London. Can we feel totally confident that Crossrail is not doomed even now? This East West scheme would have been a lot cheaper.
The final paragraph is slightly puzzling. It may mean that sending goods by this new route would be quicker than sending them by road, though I doubt that there’d be much in it. Or it may be trying to imply that putting goods onto this line and reducing road traffic would speed up other road journeys, which seems over-optimistic to me.
The headline is “Rail route aims to link east and west”, and the sub heading refers to a “New £172m. service to cut one hour off trips”. (The “m” stands for “millions” and not “minutes”!)
The scheme could be in operation as early as 2003, it was claimed. Some new stretches of line would be required, but it would also use “long stretches” of existing routes such as the East Coast main line.
That would have seemed realistic at the time, when the number of trains on the ECML north of Hitchin was smaller.
The estimated cost of £172 millions seems unbelievable today and perhaps was even then, but that’s for a line suitable for freight as well as passenger traffic, with a connection to Felixstowe. A passenger-only line would cost a mere £98 million.
I like the comment that it would “partially replace” Crossrail, the “doomed plan for a massive rail tunnel” under London. Can we feel totally confident that Crossrail is not doomed even now? This East West scheme would have been a lot cheaper.
The final paragraph is slightly puzzling. It may mean that sending goods by this new route would be quicker than sending them by road, though I doubt that there’d be much in it. Or it may be trying to imply that putting goods onto this line and reducing road traffic would speed up other road journeys, which seems over-optimistic to me.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It has nothing really to do with Crossrail, which like Thameslink will have most journeys not crossing the core.
3141
Established Member
I suppose that at the time, with Crossrail off the agenda, a reporter might think that a scheme running in the same direction might have some vague relationship, even though it was around 50 miles away. My comment that this would have been a lot cheaper wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Proposed Bletchley curve. Deep breath. deep breath. hold me back ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The benefits can be delivered for a fraction of the cost and inconvenience by reversing in the platform at Bletchley!
(@Bald Rick HELP! make the nasty men stop!)
The benefits can be delivered for a fraction of the cost and inconvenience by reversing in the platform at Bletchley!
(@Bald Rick HELP! make the nasty men stop!)
The Planner
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The curve is being looked at, very high level, but its being looked at.
DarloRich
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I know it is. I just don't think the business will stand up. It is a lot of money to deliver something you can get for next to nothing almost immediately.
PS not going to complain if it does happen as it will make my life a touch easier!
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Probably depends on the diagrams, as to whether that extra reverse and Bletchley call would require an extra unit and crew.
ABB125
Established Member
I could be useful* for freight (if freight capacity is still on the agenda).
*Yes I am aware that any project described as "useful" will almost never be justified!
Compare cost of unit and crew with a curve!
And women / other genders
(Yes I’ve done the training).
ABB125
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swt_passenger
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Well at least at a very high level it might pass over all the obstacles.
I‘ll get my crayons on the way out...
a good off
Member
If it was gauge cleared, there would be no reason why liners to/from Felixstowe couldn’t use a Bletchley Curve.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This is an interesting point, but I'm not sure what flows it would serve that the investment in Nuneaton doesn't already?
a good off
Member
As a controller, any extra diversionary routes that we have to play with are always a bonus.
One "benefit" would be during engineering works. However that's not something that ever counts for much (see the debate on Dawlish, which doesn't help the case for the reopening even though it would have a much stronger case than this) when deciding if something should be built.
Class 170101
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No value unless you make Newmarket Tunnel W10 clearance on standard wagons as well which it isn't now.
a good off
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The route would have to be gauge cleared as I already stated...
richieb1971
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Nice to see new prospects on the horizon even if they don't come to fruition. Bedford to MKC services would be used by me more often if it was a direct connection in 30 minutes.
The Planner
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Its being considered to be there when it opens, as an overlay. Things should start ramping up now the funding is agreed.
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