East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[Gloster]

£760 million for Bicester-Bletchley. The junction at Bicester appears to be laid in, the formation seems to be complete, there are only a few level-crossings to replace with bridges and it looks like only one intermediate station. Is it work at Bletchley that is costing so much and have they included in the £760 million the cost of the work that has recently been done?

 

[alexx]

I’m not sure how many times you can announce the go ahead of a project, but there you go:

East West and Northumberland rail lines get £794m boost

The government says the funding will connect "left-behind" communities.

www.bbc.co.uk

East West and Northumberland rail lines get £794m boost​

Two railway lines, closed to passengers since the 1960s, are to get almost £800m funding from the government.
East West Rail, which will eventually connect Oxford and Cambridge, will get £760m to open new parts of the line.
The Northumberland Line, which still carries freight, will get £34m for initial work aimed at reintroducing passenger services.
Reopening closed lines like these would help connect "left-behind" communities, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said.
"Restoring railways helps put communities back on the map and this investment forms part of our nationwide effort to build back vital connections and unlock access to jobs, education and housing," he said.
These investments would return these routes "to their former glory" and was part of the government's "levelling up" agenda, Mr Shapps added.

 

[The Ham]

I’m not sure how many times you can announce the go ahead of a project, but there you go:

East West and Northumberland rail lines get £794m boost

The government says the funding will connect "left-behind" communities.

www.bbc.co.uk

There's got to be a few more times yet though, it's not finished after all!

 

[a_c_skinner]

Eh? £700M. Fine. Good. But I thought we were already building that bit? £30M for Ashington. Initial work. Are we going to build it or not? What is the point of trumpeting part funding or making a big deal of funding for something we are already building so presumably someone has given in on the money already. Is the UK alone in being able to decide something is an excellent idea, good value for money but then having official pathways to delay by a generation or more?

Are these announcements real progress or just political news?

 

[Kingham West]

Eh? £700M. Fine. Good. But I thought we were already building that bit? £30M for Ashington. Initial work. Are we going to build it or not? What is the point of trumpeting part funding or making a big deal of funding for something we are already building so presumably someone has given in on the money already. Is the UK alone in being able to decide something is an excellent idea, good value for money but then having official pathways to delay by a generation or more?

Are these announcements real progress or just political news?

Yes , the Treasury had to agree to pay, this is the announcement we had been waiting for, it’s real progress ( at last )

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It looks like full Treasury funding for Bicester-Bletchley, and initial enabling works for Ashington.
No plans for electrification, in fact Shapps seems to be forcing them to use alternative technology.
No mention of Aylesbury-Milton Keynes either.
It may seem to be a re-announcement of E-W but obtaining Treasury approval to build the thing is not easy to obtain, especially in the current climate.
Meanwhile the picture in the BBC item looks like a Mk4 set - with lineside masts!

"We're building it in such a way that we can use, probably, the very latest technology, potentially, in the future," he said.
"The most important thing is the infrastructure," he said.
"It's about building the stations, things you need to do no matter what kind of train you're going to run on there, if it's going to take passengers."

Transport Secretary launches £794 million investment to boost rail links in north and south - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The works between Bicester and Bletchley are expected to create 1,500 jobs. This phase of the project will include the construction of a new stations at Winslow, as well as enhancements to existing stations along the route, including Bletchley. By 2025, 2 trains per hour will run between Oxford and Milton Keynes via Bletchley.
The investment on the Northumberland line will fund preparatory works, including land acquisition, detailed design work and early site works.

 

[Kingham West]

It looks like full Treasury funding for Bicester-Bletchley, and initial enabling works for Ashington.
No plans for electrification, in fact Shapps seems to be forcing them to use alternative technology.
No mention of Aylesbury-Milton Keynes either.
It may seem to be a re-announcement of E-W but obtaining Treasury approval to build the thing is not easy to obtain, especially in the current climate.
Meanwhile the picture in the BBC item looks like a Mk4 set - with lineside masts!


Transport Secretary launches £794 million investment to boost rail links in north and south - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

750£million is a bit trimmed back , aylesbury can follow HS2 completion, it can’t really start before .

 

[Bletchleyite]

750£million is a bit trimmed back , aylesbury can follow HS2 completion, it can’t really start before .

Why can't it start before? The trackbed is all there.

 

[Western Sunset]

Looks like the APT will be providing the train service!

East West and Northumberland rail lines get £794m boost

The government says the funding will connect "left-behind" communities.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bald Rick]

Eh? £700M. Fine. Good. But I thought we were already building that bit? £30M for Ashington. Initial work. Are we going to build it or not? What is the point of trumpeting part funding or making a big deal of funding for something we are already building so presumably someone has given in on the money already. Is the UK alone in being able to decide something is an excellent idea, good value for money but then having official pathways to delay by a generation or more?

Are these announcements real progress or just political news?

to break this down...

1) yes it is real progress

2) EWR - had not been formally approved. Work being done so far was enabling works. In theory, after that it could have been stopped (see the Met Line extension in Watford). This is the announcement of the formal approval for full construction - which actually happened a couple of weeks ago, but the announcement was delayed, presumably to fit in with the Government announcement schedule (yes there is such a thing).

3) Northumberland Line - this is the penultimate decision point. This enables progression of all design, consents (it needs an order under the Transport and Works Act), enabling works, land purchase etc. Effectively this is the level of work that EWR had been previously granted. This is good news, and shows the project is going well - had there been some major issues Government could have said “no”. However, evidently Government is unwilling to commit to the full cost of reopening until it is fully understood and the consent process is substantially complete. You wouldn’t want to commit to a project at, say, £150m and then find that the consents process requires you to build lots of bridges you hadn’t allowed for, meaning it now costs £300m.

So EWR is all systems go for Bicester to Bletchley, and Northumberland Line is progressing quickly. Good news I say.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

So EWR is all systems go for Bicester to Bletchley, and Northumberland Line is progressing quickly. Good news I say.

Thanks for the explanation.

In practical terms, does that mean EWR is all systems go for through trains Oxford-Bedford and Oxford-Milton Keynes, or is any additional work/funding required for infrastructure East of Bletchley for that?

 

[popeter45]

Looks like the APT will be providing the train service!

East West and Northumberland rail lines get £794m boost

The government says the funding will connect "left-behind" communities.

www.bbc.co.uk

In what looks like a modernized midland mainline livery

 

[The Planner]

Why can't it start before? The trackbed is all there.

Better to do it at the same time and integrate the works, north of Quainton they are only metres apart so chances are that if you did E-W first you would be closing it immediately after to allow HS2 to do their bit.

Thanks for the explanation.

In practical terms, does that mean EWR is all systems go for through trains Oxford-Bedford and Oxford-Milton Keynes, or is any additional work/funding required for infrastructure East of Bletchley for that?

Id gamble on it only being Oxford MK

 

[Andyjs247]

So the £794 million is supposed to represent a “boost” for EWR and now includes some funding for Northumberland.

This is in fact a cut - Government had agreed to £1bn of additional funding in the budget on 22 November 2017. The announcement by the then Chancellor, Philip Hammond, and meant the Western Section of the East West Rail Project can now be completed.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Feel free to get a job in one of planning construction and logistics, consents or transport planning and see if you can do it better yourself, whilst retaining value for money for the taxpayer.

I don't think it's too controversial to say that some aspects of the closures could have been handled better.

For example, NR have closed the cycle route between Milton Keynes and Winslow - ok, fine, these things happen, all for the greater good - without signposting a diversion route.

This is pretty basic stuff and they should be getting it right.

 

[jfowkes]

I have a question about EWR. As I understand it they are going to "own" the infrastructure in some sense, not NR. Where are the formal boundaries of EWR land and NR land?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Btw - £760M to build the line from Bicester to Bletchley?!?!? I realise it's easy to knock the cost of infrastructure projects and I don't have much knowledge of how the costs are justified but....

That's £760M to build 30km of double track, mostly in the middle of the countryside, on land that is already owned by the railway. (OK I realise there's a station there too, but that's not going to take more than a small fraction of that cost).

Let's make the assumption that, if you already own the land, you can easily build a house on it for £150K. Based on typical house prices, that seems pretty reasonable - even, generous.

Then for £760M you could build 5000 houses.

If each house + garden extends 15m in length, and you laid them all in a line, then 5000 houses would stretch 75km.

In other words, for £760M, you could probably completely cover an area as great as the entire Bicester-Bletchley trackbed with housing about 2 and a half times over.

You would think that 15m of double track railway should be simpler/cheaper to build than a complete house?

 

[jfowkes]

Btw - £760M to build the line from Bicester to Bletchley?!?!? I realise it's easy to knock the cost of infrastructure projects and I don't have much knowledge of how the costs are justified but....

That's £760M to build 30km of double track, mostly in the middle of the countryside, on land that is already owned by the railway. (OK I realise there's a station there too, but that's not going to take more than a small fraction of that cost).

Let's make the assumption that, if you already own the land, you can easily build a house on it for £150K. Based on typical house prices, that seems pretty reasonable - even, generous.

Then for £760M you could build 5000 houses.

If each house + garden extends 15m in length, and you laid them all in a line, then 5000 houses would stretch 75km.

In other words, for £760M, you could probably completely cover an area as great as the entire Bicester-Bletchley trackbed with housing about 2 and a half times over.

You would think that 15m of double track railway should be simpler/cheaper to build than a complete house?

There's two stations, if you count Bletchley as being a new station (which is kind of is).

It's not clear if the £760M is just for the section to Bletchley or if there's any for work to be done on the Marston Vale line. How many level crossing closures can you get out of £760M?

 

[BrianW]

I'm struggling to see Oxford and Milton Keynes as 'left behind communities'; maybe Aylesbury, Bedford and Cambridge will be left behind?

 

[Snow1964]

There's two stations, if you count Bletchley as being a new station (which is kind of is).

It's not clear if the £760M is just for the section to Bletchley or if there's any for work to be done on the Marston Vale line. How many level crossing closures can you get out of £760M?

I have just read the DfT Press release and it is quite vaguely worded, one part refers to Oxford-Cambridge (and the costs of building a new alignment to Cambridge would make spending £760m lot easier). But reference to phase one suggests not.

But it isn’t clear as also refers to first phase Bicester- Bletchley and if you assumed £20m for every station, and £10m for every new bridge still going to struggle to spend that much as the land and earthworks already there.

It also refers to an Oxford-Milton Keynes service of 2 trains per hour by 2025

Transport Secretary launches £794 million investment to boost rail links in north and south

Final round of Restoring Your Railway Ideas Fund opens, inviting proposals to restore railway lines, services and stations that were closed to passengers in 1964.

www.gov.uk

I wonder if costs of rebuilding Oxford station and adding extra north facing bays are part of this big cost. Or adding extra platforms at Milton Keynes

 

[BrianW]

I have just read the DfT Press release and it is quite vaguely worded, one part refers to Oxford-Cambridge (and the costs of building a new alignment to Cambridge would make spending £760m lot easier). But reference to phase one suggests not.

But it isn’t clear as also refers to first phase Bicester- Bletchley and if you assumed £20m for every station, and £10m for every new bridge still going to struggle to spend that much as the land and earthworks already there.

It also refers to an Oxford-Milton Keynes service of 2 trains per hour by 2025

Transport Secretary launches £794 million investment to boost rail links in north and south

Final round of Restoring Your Railway Ideas Fund opens, inviting proposals to restore railway lines, services and stations that were closed to passengers in 1964.

www.gov.uk

I wonder if costs of rebuilding Oxford station and adding extra north facing bays are part of this big cost. Or adding extra platforms at Milton Keynes

I note this from the GOV 'News story' these words: the construction of a new stations at Winslow,

That's not quite grammatical; might it be an amendment from an earlier draft with more 'new stations' intended than just Winslow? A Freudian slip, or an Enigma?

 

[Neen Sollars]

The article states Bicester to Bletchley not Bicester to Bedford, but is on the subject of re-opening closed lines and Bletchley to Bedford line is operational. But there appears to be a funding cut, which sort of indicates there is no money for Bletchley to Bedford. Just thinking whether the substantial refurb costs of Bletchley flyover are being borne by NR and not EWR. The construction cost of Bletchley HL station will be borne by EWR. So it looks as if initial running will be Oxford to MK with the single line chord re-instated between Bletchley HL and Fenny Stratford? Have to wait for more details from EWR.

I wonder if costs of rebuilding Oxford station and adding extra north facing bays are part of this big cost. Or adding extra platforms at Milton Keynes

Rebuilding Oxford station a separate and costly project.

 

[Western Sunset]

The picture of the APT now seems to have disappeared from the BBC link. Someone at Network Rail having a laugh?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think it's too controversial to say that some aspects of the closures could have been handled better.

For example, NR have closed the cycle route between Milton Keynes and Winslow - ok, fine, these things happen, all for the greater good - without signposting a diversion route.

This is pretty basic stuff and they should be getting it right.

What would be really helpful would be a page on the Network Rail website clearly showing the closures and their applicable dates (kept up to date) plus recommended diversions. There is a central repository of road closures (forget the URL) but it's not very clear.

Furthermore, where they have closed public footpaths, no doubt permanently, if the diversionary route is by road they should put in a pavement at their cost, and also negotiate other replacement accesses (e.g. there's a privately owned bridge which could provide a replacement to a couple of paths near Swanbourne). Because of the lack of pavements on rural roads, public footpaths in rural areas are often more important than just people going for a Sunday afternoon wander. An example of this (looking at Swanbourne again) is access to Horwood House.

The picture of the APT now seems to have disappeared from the BBC link. Someone at Network Rail having a laugh?

More likely someone just typed "fast train" into Google image search, or somesuch.

 

[kevin_roche]

The BBC has the following:

The East West Rail investment will rebuild a train line between Bicester and Bletchley which was closed in 1968.

The project is being delivered by a publicly-owned body called the East West Company.

The first phase of East West Rail, which was completed in 2016, connected Oxford and Bicester.

But at the moment, rail passengers wishing to go from Oxford to Bletchley have to take a detour via Coventry.

The aim is to get trains running between Oxford and Bletchley by 2025, with new stations at Winslow and Bletchley.

The Department for Transport said the works will create 1,500 jobs, and have a wider economic benefit for the area.

The eventual aim of the project, which the government expects to be completed by the end of the decade, is to connect Oxford and Cambridge by rail via Bedford, taking in Milton Keynes and Aylesbury on branches.

So I think the government are counting the station at Bletchly as new.

 

[Hughby]

So EWR is all systems go for Bicester to Bletchley, and Northumberland Line is progressing quickly. Good news I say.

Yes. Excellent news!

I came back to this thread expecting much jubilation and metaphorical high fiving. What I got was grumpy complaints about how much and pedantic complaints about use of stock pictures.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I think the government are counting the station at Bletchly as new.

I suppose it kind of is - it's on a different site (the flyover) and will also create a new entrance on the town centre/bus station side (about time!). None of the existing site will be used, other than connecting to the end of the footbridge.

 

[Domh245]

With the "East West Rail consortium" logo on the front of the train, I'm fairly sure it's an (old) stock photo put out by that group that's been reused for this story

 

[Wyrleybart]

I don't think the DfT have made any concerted attempt to tell us what is what.
Many years ago there was a proposal for EWR to be formed as a vehicle to build a new railway line independently of the state owned Network Rail. There were suggestions that NR was too cumbersome and expensive and didn't deliver vfm.

Not seen the EWR "mission" refuted anytime since and have believed EWR to be an independent company, but working with NR due to the connections. AIUI Oxford to Gavray Jn is owned by NR, as is Bletchley-Bedford. I therefore assume that EWR will own Gavray Jn - Bletchley exc including the rather expensive new viaduct they need to build over the WCML at Bletchley. As far as Claydon Jn - Aylesbury, I have no ideas. I believe it is owned by NR but not sure how much of it still exists. I assume the EWR trains will run on their own infrastructure between Gavray Jn and Bletchley with NR track access to Oxford / Bedford and MKC. Also assume EWR will have an agreement for operating over NR between Aylesbury, through Aylesbury Parkway to wherever the fringe is with EWR metals.

 

[Techniquest]

Yes. Excellent news!

I came back to this thread expecting much jubilation and metaphorical high fiving. What I got was grumpy complaints about how much and pedantic complaints about use of stock pictures.

I'll issue a metaphorical high-five for your use of the word 'jubilation' That's cheered me right up while I feel sorry for myself this afternoon, following the coming off my bike (didn't see anything on the road though) earlier. The use of a word like jubilation has made me smile, so thanks!

The investment in EWR and, indeed, the Ashington line pre-works is good news all round. Stock photo or not, who cares? Investment of serious money into the railway is certainly cause to get a party started, even if EWR was supposed to have been years ago. That £794,000,000 could easily have been spent just on roads...