East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[dewsnapsliding]

this same 'cheap electrification' seems to be holding up reasonably well, also the early 1950's Picc to Hadfield catenary seems to be original in most sections so BR cannot have been that bad at electrification.

That (I believe) is to do with the size of the cable that was required to carry DC electric which of course Woodhead was, and therefore the very substantial structures currently support a cable that is tiny in comparison to that which it used to carry.

Iirc the cable that was sold by BR after Woodhead closure was sold for a small fortune.

 

[Roger B]

That (I believe) is to do with the size of the cable that was required to carry DC electric which of course Woodhead was, and therefore the very substantial structures that therefore support a cable that is tiny in comparison to that which it used to carry.

Iirc the cable that was sold by BR after Woodhead closure was sold for a small fortune.

One of my treasured possessions is a three-inch length of Woodhead catenary contact cable. It's surprisingly heavy!

 

[edwin_m]

Re Tobbes: One thing that strikes me about EWR is what kind of route will it ultimately be
Was it thought it might provide a route to and from significant container ports like Southampton and Felixstowe to connect with just about all the main lines radiating from London to 'the North'? To be built to whatever that Loading Gauge is, and with bridges high enough for 25Kv 'safety'?
Also thereby facilitating diversion opportunities for trains to/from London from 'the North'?
And finally (for now!) having lived in Oxford, I never understood why anyone would want to travel from there to 'the other (light blue) place' (aka Cambridge). A guy had plans for an air service from Oxford (London) Airport- it never took off (haha)- no demand.

Linking Southampton northwards was the "Electric Spine" proposal - convert Southampton to Basingstoke from DC to AC and electrify Basingstoke to Reading, Oxford to Bedford and to the West Midlands (Birmingham and Nuneaton I think). It would also have used bits of GWML and MML electrification that had previously been announced, some of which were later cancelled. The Spine was an early casualty of the overoptimism about the cost and deliverability of electrification, and I don't think any design work was done.

In relation to EWR this would have allowed Oxford-MK and Oxford-Bedford to be electric (plus the Marston Vale stopper assuming an EMU short enough to fit in the platforms) but not Aylesbury-MK. However the EWR Central Section to Cambridge would have introduced a problem, as the trains were always intended to continue eastwards to Ipswich and Norwich. So electrifying Bedford-Cambridge wouldn't have made much sense without continuing to those destinations too, or using bi-modes.

 

[MarkRedon]

So let's think long-term and yes, big. Why not plan now - for implementation over a couple of decades - the changes that would be necessary to have an east-west electric spine from Norwich to Swindon and Bristol? It's perfectly possible to put a rough schedule on the various elements in accordance with necessity, net benefit and affordability. Pure suggestions, not at all the necessary rigorous planning, but perhaps:

• Oxford station rebuild
• Electrification from Didcot and Swindon to Oxford
• Build Cambridge South with four platforms
• Complete EWR Phase 2 (just like that!)
• Sort Ely and Trowse Bridge
• Build Bedford to Cambridge - electrified from day 1 (or year 5)
• Increase capacity Cambridge to Norwich (and Ipswich)
• Infill electrification

This sort of thinking would not be regarded as impossible in certain rival economies.

 

[work-traveller]

A busy Easter bank holiday weekend of works ahead on Bletchley Flyover. The Mercury House car park on Buckingham Road now has a 750T crane set up, to start the process of removing spans from the flyover. The smaller office block has been demolished and the middle sized office block is in the process of being demolished.

 

[Ladder23]

A busy Easter bank holiday weekend of works ahead on Bletchley Flyover. The Mercury House car park on Buckingham Road now has a 750T crane set up, to start the process of removing spans from the flyover. The smaller office block has been demolished and the middle sized office block is in the process of being demolished.

I drove through the yard yesterday isn’t that crane one of the biggest in Europe or something? I’m sure someone spoke of it.

 

[work-traveller]

I drove through the yard yesterday isn’t that crane one of the biggest in Europe or something? I’m sure someone spoke of it.

The largest crane is currently working in Somerset at Hinckley Point C.

 

[Ladder23]

The largest crane is currently working in Somerset at Hinckley Point C.

Ahh, there we go then someone got confused ha.

 

[cle]

So let's think long-term and yes, big. Why not plan now - for implementation over a couple of decades - the changes that would be necessary to have an east-west electric spine from Norwich to Swindon and Bristol? It's perfectly possible to put a rough schedule on the various elements in accordance with necessity, net benefit and affordability. Pure suggestions, not at all the necessary rigorous planning, but perhaps:

• Oxford station rebuild
• Electrification from Didcot and Swindon to Oxford
• Build Cambridge South with four platforms
• Complete EWR Phase 2 (just like that!)
• Sort Ely and Trowse Bridge
• Build Bedford to Cambridge - electrified from day 1 (or year 5)
• Increase capacity Cambridge to Norwich (and Ipswich)
• Infill electrification

This sort of thinking would not be regarded as impossible in certain rival economies.

I didn't even think this was that grandiose - all very logical! Every route radiating from Cambridge and Ely should be electrified, and line speeds upgraded across the Fens, Chat Moss style.

I would add a second platform to Bletchley, possibly additional to MKC including a running line, and a Bletchley avoiding line from the Bedford direction to MKC.

Once upon a time, EWR was going to be another XC-type mainline, routes from Reading-Manchester via MKC, or Oxford to Nottingham. I'd hope these can still go ahead - and in turn possibly speed up the MML services, by covering more of the local stops and allowing more skip stopping on London.

 

[swt_passenger]

I didn't even think this was that grandiose - all very logical! Every route radiating from Cambridge and Ely should be electrified, and line speeds upgraded across the Fens, Chat Moss style.

I would add a second platform to Bletchley, possibly additional to MKC including a running line, and a Bletchley avoiding line from the Bedford direction to MKC.

Once upon a time, EWR was going to be another XC-type mainline, routes from Reading-Manchester via MKC, or Oxford to Nottingham. I'd hope these can still go ahead - and in turn possibly speed up the MML services, by covering more of the local stops and allowing more skip stopping on London.

XC type services via the WCML were explicitly withdrawn from scope in 2017 due to lack of track capacity north of Milton Keynes, as shown in the TWA inspectors report.

 

[59CosG95]

XC type services via the WCML were explicitly withdrawn from scope in 2017 due to lack of track capacity north of Milton Keynes, as shown in the TWA inspectors report.

Perhaps HS2 would be able to release some capacity on the WCML for such services? Oxford - Notts still seems viable, at a pinch.

 

[cle]

They somehow think they are starting a HS2 Leeds service from Bedford. Perhaps that could run onto this? I can't see how it'd work for turning at Bedford, or frankly the demand.

Notts might be easier for a more regional service, and run on to Swindon/Bath/Bristol which don't have any service across the South or East Midlands. Lots of potential new journey pairs, and seat churn on a service like that.

 

[work-traveller]

I would add a second platform to Bletchley, possibly additional to MKC including a running line, and a Bletchley avoiding line from the Bedford direction to MKC.

A new line from Bletchley to Milton Keynes along the east side of the WCML was considered at GRIP 2, along with chords from OXD directly onto the WCML fast lines.

 

[BrianW]

A busy Easter bank holiday weekend of works ahead on Bletchley Flyover. The Mercury House car park on Buckingham Road now has a 750T crane set up, to start the process of removing spans from the flyover. The smaller office block has been demolished and the middle sized office block is in the process of being demolished.

Can someone save me looking back through 3700 odd postings please-
I'm trying to see why the flyover is being demolished, and these buildings come to that.
I find it hard to believe that it is envisaged trains from Oxford will cross on the flat toward Bedford; I saw a plan some time ago with I thought High Level platforms on the east side of Bletchley station, lifts etc.
Thanks.

 

[Hattermick]

Can someone save me looking back through 3700 odd postings please-
I'm trying to see why the flyover is being demolished, and these buildings come to that.
I find it hard to believe that it is envisaged trains from Oxford will cross on the flat toward Bedford; I saw a plan some time ago with I thought High Level platforms on the east side of Bletchley station, lifts etc.
Thanks.

Believe some of the beams have concrete cancer and need replacing.

 

[jfowkes]

The flyover is receiving a major upgrade to support EWR traffic, plus an entrance building and platforms, it's not going away. I imagine that probably includes replacement of a lot of things on it. All the parapets have already been removed I think.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

p

A new line from Bletchley to Milton Keynes along the east side of the WCML was considered at GRIP 2, along with chords from OXD directly onto the WCML fast lines.

Did they ever consider reinstating the chord from the Bicester line that used to cross over Water Eaton Road on an overbridge? It may have been into a bay previously. I'm sure somebody knowledgeable will know.

 

[RT4038]

p

Did they ever consider reinstating the chord from the Bicester line that used to cross over Water Eaton Road on an overbridge? It may have been into a bay previously. I'm sure somebody knowledgeable will know.

Trains from Oxford and Buckingham used that line, and either terminated in a bay or crossed the main line on the flat. There has never been a plan to terminate any services at Bletchley (i.e. re-instating any bay platforms) and I guess crossing (or continuing up) the main line on the flat would be difficult to schedule in today's traffic levels. I am sure that if the expense of building new platforms on , and refurbishing, the viaduct could have been avoided (descoped) it would have been!

 

[swt_passenger]

The flyover is receiving a major upgrade to support EWR traffic, plus an entrance building and platforms, it's not going away. I imagine that probably includes replacement of a lot of things on it. All the parapets have already been removed I think.

There has also been a relatively recent decision to completely rebuild the entire sections over the WCML, and over Buckingham Road. It will be a completely new construction, (rather than fiddling around with the existing flyover components and pillars), and is subject to a new planning application, as per post #3624. The pdf drawing shows the significant section that is to be demolished and completely replaced:

 

[BrianW]

There has also been a relatively recent decision to completely rebuild the entire sections over the WCML, and over Buckingham Road. It will be a completely new construction, (rather than fiddling around with the existing flyover components and pillars), and is subject to a new planning application, as per post #3624. The pdf drawing shows the significant section that is to be demolished and completely replaced:

Thank you- it's good seeing physical progress.

 

[edwin_m]

Did they ever consider reinstating the chord from the Bicester line that used to cross over Water Eaton Road on an overbridge? It may have been into a bay previously. I'm sure somebody knowledgeable will know.

They need to join the WCML Slow lines on the east side, as they don't want to conflict with the non-stopping trains on the Fasts and the Slows also have a bay platform at MK. Even if they had been heading for Manchester or somewhere on the Fasts, I think someone would have insisted on a grade-separated curve off the Up Fast towards Oxford, which would have been a huge job.

 

[JonathanH]

They need to join the WCML Slow lines on the east side, as they don't want to conflict with the non-stopping trains on the Fasts and the Slows also have a bay platform at MK. Even if they had been heading for Manchester or somewhere on the Fasts, I think someone would have insisted on a grade-separated curve off the Up Fast towards Oxford, which would have been a huge job.

If they are going to stop at Milton Keynes anyway, it would almost be easier to bring trains off EWR to join the WCML slow lines and then cross at Hanslope (or even go 'fast' via Northampton) and use the grade separation at Rugby rather than try and build a spur onto the fast lines at Bletchley, at least in the first instance.

 

[cle]

It seems like in addition to the terminating slow platforms at MKC (one being only four cars, but maybe fine for starters) - it could be worthwhile sending a service per hour to Northampton which might have some capacity too. It could definitely do with some broader destinations.

 

[JonathanH]

it could be worthwhile sending a service per hour to Northampton which might have some capacity too. It could definitely do with some broader destinations.

Not really - it is pretty unlikely that EWR would want to effectively lease a unit to duplicate service provision between Milton Keynes and Northampton that already exists on the trains to London - there would always be one unit north of Milton Keynes and in reality Northampton doesn't have that much spare capacity.

 

[Hughby]

It may not be the largest but it's quite big!

Taken while on my exercise walk today...

 

[RT4038]

It seems like in addition to the terminating slow platforms at MKC (one being only four cars, but maybe fine for starters) - it could be worthwhile sending a service per hour to Northampton which might have some capacity too. It could definitely do with some broader destinations.

Passengers for Northampton will be able to change at Bletchley or Milton Keynes Central. There is no need for more trains between Milton Keynes and Northampton. Much of our railways are already congested, which results in unreliability.

 

[Ladder23]

drove through the yard today its quite impressive to see such a change in the time since I last drove through.

 

[swt_passenger]

Passengers for Northampton will be able to change at Bletchley or Milton Keynes Central. There is no need for more trains between Milton Keynes and Northampton. Much of our railways are already congested, which results in unreliability.

In any case, isn’t the statement in the TWA report somewhat definitive, in that DfT have stated there will be no services beyond Milton Keynes due to lack of track capacity? I mentioned it only a few days ago. It surprises me why this thread still includes so much speculation...

 

[Neen Sollars]

Hughby, Please continue to take your daily exercise and please keep posting great pics of EWR works as per the above.

 

[Hughby]

I would love to post pictures of flyover sections dangling precariously from a large crane but as of lunchtime today nothing much had changed (unless you count the building demolition). Will look again tomorrow...

I guess that crane operators job is one of those 'days of boredom, seconds of panic' type of things!