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ECDP (East Coast Digital Programme) Updates

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59CosG95

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Well, seeing as most of the other threads relating to ETCS/ERTMS on the southern ECML have been closed, I thought I'd start a new thread relating to updates on the scheme.

Most recently: Peterborough PSB (1972-2023) has now been closed, with Biggleswade to Grantham now under the control of York ROC.

Screenshots yesterday from OpenTrainTimes:
Screenshot_20230827_175225_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20230827_175240_Chrome.jpg
(ISTR the P6/P7 signals said "GOOD NITE -GOD BLES")
 
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Steve Harris

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Well, seeing as most of the other threads relating to ETCS/ERTMS on the southern ECML have been closed, I thought I'd start a new thread relating to updates on the scheme.

Most recently: Peterborough PSB (1972-2023) has now been closed, with Biggleswade to Grantham now under the control of York ROC.

Screenshots yesterday from OpenTrainTimes:
View attachment 141704View attachment 141705
(ISTR the P6/P7 signals said "GOOD NITE -GOD BLES")
Thanx for the explanation Re P6/P7, as I noticed the messages on OTT yesterday myself and couldn't quite understand P6/P7.

As an aside, am I right in thinking it's now just 3 signalling centres which control London King's Cross - Newcastle?
 

59CosG95

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Thanx for the explanation Re P6/P7, as I noticed the messages on OTT yesterday myself and couldn't quite understand P6/P7.

As an aside, am I right in thinking it's now just 3 signalling centres which control London King's Cross - Newcastle?
It would appear so; York ROC, Doncaster PSB (which isn't slated for closure any time soon), and Tyneside IECC (or ROC).
 

Steve Harris

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It would appear so; York ROC, Doncaster PSB (which isn't slated for closure any time soon), and Tyneside IECC (or ROC).
Which kind of makes it a bid odd that York ROC controls either side of it.

I'm guessing Peterborough and King's Cross PSB's were life expired but Doncaster isn't just yet?
 

Geeves

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1972 for Peterborough and 1979 for Doncaster with the full panel working by 1981. You would imagine Doncaster is in the "difficult pile"
 

snowball

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There are quite a few paradoxes of around the network, aren't there? Where, for example, you move further away from a box while moving into its control area.
 

Freightmaster

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Most recently: Peterborough PSB (1972-2023) has now been closed, with Biggleswade to Grantham now under the control of York ROC.
Just to be pedantic, today's resignalling covers the section between Sandy and Stoke Summit;
Biggleswade was already controlled from York ROC (transferred from Kings Cross in August 2019)
and Grantham remains under the control of Doncaster PSB.



MARK
 

Steve Harris

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Just to be pedantic, today's resignalling covers the section between Sandy and Stoke Summit;
Biggleswade was already controlled from York ROC (transferred from Kings Cross in August 2019)
and Grantham remains under the control of Doncaster PSB.



MARK
And being even more pedantic the boundary between York ROC and Peterborough PSB was at 43 miles and 19 chains* from King's Cross which is neither Biggleswade nor Sandy !! :p:p


*As stated in the Sectional Appendix.. Biggleswade is 41M 13C and Sandy is 44M 10C according to the Sectional Appendix.
 

High Dyke

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Which kind of makes it a bid odd that York ROC controls either side of it.

I'm guessing Peterborough and King's Cross PSB's were life expired but Doncaster isn't just yet?
There's already suggestions that Doncaster may go next year. Then again we've these sort of stories before. Peterborough was essentially only a recontrol, with signal numbers still the same. A slight adjustment in the operating areas of NX panels vice the two new workstations. To put it simply, the signalling was unplugged at Peterborough and the plug inserted at York in the Service Delivery Centre, as it's known as.
 

swt_passenger

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I was wondering if the comparatively recent decision to make Tyneside a mini-ROC is a sign that the ETCS/ERTMS plan won’t extend that far north for many years?

I don’t think the full extent of the Tyneside ROC expected area of control has ever been publicised, but you’d expect it will take in at least to Tweedmouth, somewhere about half way towards Carlisle? Then can anyone predict how far south it will go, perhaps there’ll be boundaries on both the main line and the Durham Coast?
 

ainsworth74

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I don’t think the full extent of the Tyneside ROC expected area of control has ever been publicised, but you’d expect it will take in at least to Tweedmouth, somewhere about half way towards Carlisle? Then can anyone predict how far south it will go, perhaps there’ll be boundaries on both the main line and the Durham Coast?

I would think the smart money would be on the boundary ending up around the present York/Tyneside boundary on the ECML (just north of Northallerton on the ECML) and most likely where the current York/Low Gates boundary is (just north of Northallerton on the Yarm branch). With the present Middlesbrough and Hartlepool workstations being evicted from York ROC (where I believe they technically sit under Sheffield sub-ROC at the moment!) to Tyneside mini-ROC. I also suspect that it's a fair bet that Morpeth, Alnmouth and Tweedmouth will all end up in Tyneside as well in due course with the line north of Tweedmouth being inside Edinburgh IECC already I can't see the boundary moving further north and operationally it surely makes sense for Tweedmouth to go into Tyneside on the basis that it keeps it within the relevant Network Rail region. I think the real question marks are what happens to the Tyne Valley boxes (how many go into Tyneside, you'd think at least to Hexham?) and how you fit all the relevant workstations into Tyneside! A further extension may well be required...
 

swt_passenger

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I would think the smart money would be on the boundary ending up around the present York/Tyneside boundary on the ECML (just north of Northallerton on the ECML) and most likely where the current York/Low Gates boundary is (just north of Northallerton on the Yarm branch). With the present Middlesbrough and Hartlepool workstations being evicted from York ROC (where I believe they technically sit under Sheffield sub-ROC at the moment!) to Tyneside mini-ROC. I also suspect that it's a fair bet that Morpeth, Alnmouth and Tweedmouth will all end up in Tyneside as well in due course with the line north of Tweedmouth being inside Edinburgh IECC already I can't see the boundary moving further north and operationally it surely makes sense for Tweedmouth to go into Tyneside on the basis that it keeps it within the relevant Network Rail region. I think the real question marks are what happens to the Tyne Valley boxes (how many go into Tyneside, you'd think at least to Hexham?) and how you fit all the relevant workstations into Tyneside! A further extension may well be required...
Yes, I probably should have said to Tweedmouth inclusive, I assumed Alnmouth and Morpeth would be included eventually anyway, and obviously the Blyth and Tyne on opening.

Does seem odd that the York ROC control area will nearly all be south of York though, I think there’s possibly an expectation that a ROC would be roughly central in terms of the overall route length. But maybe that’s too simple…
 

ainsworth74

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Does seem odd that the York ROC control area will nearly all be south of York though, I think there’s possibly an expectation that a ROC would be roughly central in terms of the overall route length. But maybe that’s too simple…
That's presumably becuase when it was planned there wouldn't be a Tyneside mini-ROC as it was all going to be in York. However as someone once said "no plan survives first contact with the enemy" :lol:
 

12LDA28C

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Which kind of makes it a bid odd that York ROC controls either side of it.

I'm guessing Peterborough and King's Cross PSB's were life expired but Doncaster isn't just yet?

Peterborough box was built in 1972 and was expected to last for 10 years so it's done pretty well to survive for over half a century...
 

AlexNL

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Nothing as permanent as a temporary solution (see also: the HST, the Pacer).

If I've got my memory correct, the Northern City Line is already fully kitted out but the dependency is now on driver training. What are the next steps for ECML resignalling and the roll-out of ETCS?
 

507020

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Peterborough box was built in 1972 and was expected to last for 10 years so it's done pretty well to survive for over half a century...
So what was the plan for it to be replaced in 1982 that got scrapped?
 

snowball

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Press release


Network Rail and Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) have successfully demonstrated that the recently installed digital signalling system on the Northern City Line, between Finsbury Park and Moorgate, is ready for passenger service. This is a significant milestone for the first phase of the East Coast Digital Programme (ECDP).

Mirroring Great Northern’s peak timetable on the Northern City Line by running six digitally signalled trains in 30-minute periods*, the testing proved that the state-of-the-art in-cab signalling system - European Train Control System (ETCS) - will support the high-frequency metro service.

A team of Train Test Officers, formed of representatives from across the ECDP’s industry partners including the freight sector, provided support on the overnight tests when stations were closed.

It was the final event in a series of proving runs designed to build confidence in the system before Great Northern drivers begin their training on ETCS in passenger service. This will start once the trackside system has received the required safety approvals from the Office of Road and Rail (ORR).

Once introduced, ETCS will provide more reliable and greener services for Great Northern passengers on the Northern City Line.

Ed Akers, Network Rail’s Principal Programme Sponsor, ECDP, said: “We’ve now done all the testing, have submitted the operational safety case to the relevant review bodies and we await final regulatory approval to move to operating passenger trains in ETCS. We’ve got to this point through excellent collaboration, innovation and ‘learning by doing’. We’ll continue to work that way as we progress to reliable digitally signalled operations on this important first phase of ECDP."

Oliver Turner, GTR’s Head of ERTMS, said: “We are all delighted with the results from this week’s system reliability testing on the Northern City Line. Having all the necessary paperwork and approvals in place is one thing, but we won’t start driver training until we have demonstrated we can reliably deliver our timetabled passenger service in ETCS. Thanks to the proving runs this week, we can now say we are fully confident in the system and in a good position to start training our drivers as soon as the trackside system gains formal approval.

"I am so proud of my team here at GTR, and colleagues at Network Rail, who’ve worked very hard behind the scenes to get us to this point, and would like to thank everyone involved.”
 

68000

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Digital signalling has been around since the 1980s and the use of it today to describe ETCS is nothing short of PR guff
 
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