All at a stand at Newark until just now. 0535 to KGX arrived 4E but departed 53L. Apparently a train stuck near Grantham. 0606 to KGX just left Newark 0640. A number of cancellations as there was also a failed train outside Leeds. As the lady in the buffet said: "I do love Monday mornings on the railway."
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ECML delays morning of 30/10/2017
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The down fast at Hatfield. Trains diverted via Hertford Loop.
Not sure why GN said Stevenage.
SpacePhoenix
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NRE says near Hatfield. Looking at both RTT and OTT looks like 3R47 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G46935/2017/10/30/advanced) might possibly have been the train that was involved.
Yes, all services including this 1A01 diverted via Hertford N. We were just held 5-10 S of Cuffley for no apparent reason with blocks through Gordon Hill clear but now moving ok. Now well over 85 late.
Whilst as ever I feel deeply for the driver of 3R47 (and the person hit of course) at least it was ECS so no passengers on board.
This lot may take quite a while to clear up so expect the return journey this afternoon to be a bit of a mess too.
Refer to the buffet lady's comment in my first post....
Whilst as ever I feel deeply for the driver of 3R47 (and the person hit of course) at least it was ECS so no passengers on board.
This lot may take quite a while to clear up so expect the return journey this afternoon to be a bit of a mess too.
Refer to the buffet lady's comment in my first post....
Just had mention of "an incident". That's it.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I would, rather obviously, assume delays and possible cancellations.
Clearly. Just surprises me that I find out info on an internet forum quicker than via the train I'm on.
Lines were reopened at 0830 after the coroner had been and it wasn't deemed suspicious, but obviously lots of delays to come.
Quite impressed at the speed of getting everything done, but Uno apparently needed a kick up the backside to allow passengers 'free' travel between Hatfield or WGC and St Albans. Many drivers apparently not aware acceptance was in place during disruption.
Quite impressed at the speed of getting everything done, but Uno apparently needed a kick up the backside to allow passengers 'free' travel between Hatfield or WGC and St Albans. Many drivers apparently not aware acceptance was in place during disruption.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I am fairly sure the staff on the train aren't clairvoyant. If no one tells them what can they tell you? Surely it is better to wait until proper information is available before setting the hares running?
To be fair, there was information on Twitter but the hashtag was #Stevenage for some reason (perhaps set up by Network Rail in error or to have it shown to a wider audience).
tsr
Established Member
A very nasty incident, by all accounts. Further line blocks being taken between trains to deal with the effects on the infrastructure. The location was indeed Hatfield. There was also a passcom activated on a diverted train.
As for the signalling issues on the diversionary route, I have been advised this was due to a precautionary method of working implemented between Hertford North and Watton-at-Stone, nothing to do with the original fatality, but which would cause trains to have greater space between them than usual. I believe this may be due to contaminants suspected to be insulating the railhead, but can't confirm from the details in front of me at the moment.
As for the signalling issues on the diversionary route, I have been advised this was due to a precautionary method of working implemented between Hertford North and Watton-at-Stone, nothing to do with the original fatality, but which would cause trains to have greater space between them than usual. I believe this may be due to contaminants suspected to be insulating the railhead, but can't confirm from the details in front of me at the moment.
Quakkerillo
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Just to answer you quickly, but you're on TL/MML, while this was for ECML related issues. There was an ECS 5O33 at Hendon waiting for another train at Cricklewood to finish shunting, so that it could go in. Issues in the core seem to have been the reason for the (extra) moves.
bb21
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https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thameslink-core-30-oct.156351/
2O25 sat down at Farringdon.
Problems at Leeds this morning also did not help matters on the ECML AIUI.
Mentioned here because so many people were moved from Hatfield/WGC to St Albans and have possibly found themselves further delayed than waiting. But people like to keep moving, which is why I went to St Albans myself.
Hatfield reopened at 0835 but of course there would be residual delays, but social media was saying anything from 10am to midday - even end of day (should note this wasn't official comment, rather Chinese whispers) which in itself probably caused problems for passengers and staff alike.
bb21
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GTR are struggling to recover services due to 1P09 reporting hitting an object at Welwyn (Digswell), sending everything through the slow lines.
All lines now open but recovery might go on for a while.
All lines now open but recovery might go on for a while.
I suspect GN were taking a more circumspect view in line with The Samaritans guidelines of not stating the place specifically, and that has percolated through into the hash tag National Rail Enquiries have set up for the incident.
Maybe, although Hatfield has been mentioned in all other public communication.
bramling
Veteran Member
It's all very well not giving a location, but it is something people potentially *need* to know. For example, an incident at Hatfield could potentially mean people travelling in from further out can assume at least some sort of service will be running with diversions via Hertford. Conversely, an incident at Stevenage means the job will be completely stopped. In the former case I might chance taking the train and leave some extra time for the journey. In the latter case forget it and take the car.
Indeed, if it was at Stevenage, those living at WGC and south would assume the Moorgate trains would be running as normal. Even perhaps some others turning back or starting at WGC.
People at Welwyn North and Knebworth might drive south and only then discover that was pointless. Indeed, they'd have been better off going to Stevenage.
FWIW, staff on the ground knew what was going on so people at the stations would have been informed properly. Even if the options were a bit limited.
People at Welwyn North and Knebworth might drive south and only then discover that was pointless. Indeed, they'd have been better off going to Stevenage.
FWIW, staff on the ground knew what was going on so people at the stations would have been informed properly. Even if the options were a bit limited.
class387
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Got caught up in the disruption today. Took me 2hrs 15min to cover Hatfield to Potters Bar, probably the longest it has ever taken (more than Storm Doris). The staff informed me that it would take 4 hours for lines to reopen and to "prepare for being late" as there are no buses Hatfield Station to Potters Bar. I took a 602 to UH Forum and then waited 45 minutes for a 610, delayed as Uno sent out a Bendybus which isn't allowed past Brookmans Park, arriving at Potters Bar just 10 minutes before the train arrived. Tickets were accepted on both the 602 and 610.
class387
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I'm pretty sure in their first Twitter update they said that "All lines are blocked through Hitchin".
bramling
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I'm glad I took the car today, which as it happens was largely a whim of fancy rather than for any particular reason.
I remember one occasion some years ago when I had it take 3 hours from Potters Bar to Hatfield due to the train striking a person near Brookmans Park. That journey sticks out for other reasons as it happened to be on 365526. Train was taken out of service at Welwyn GC as I remember.
I've had at least two journeys where the train has got as far as Potters Bar, then been held there due to problems further on, and ending up reversing at Potters Bar and heading back to Finsbury Park, reversing there and having another go at going north via Hertford.
I planned to travel from Stevenage to Kings Cross on the 1137 from Stevenage. It was cancelled as was the 1141 semi fast. Ended up on the 1207 which was around 15 minutes late.
A couple of VTEC trains due to call at Stevenage around 1200 were both running around 15 minutes late.
A couple of VTEC trains due to call at Stevenage around 1200 were both running around 15 minutes late.
The suggestion is that the section of the route where trains cannot operate is described as the location (forgive my geography) 'due to the emergency services dealing with an incident between Stevenage and Potters Bar...'
It must have caused confusion and allowed some people to attempt journeys that were futile, as they mistakenly thought the disruption wouldn't affect them.
Giving the correct station is, IMO, vital so people can make up their own mind on what to do. While the Hertford Loop is known by most commuters (but arguably NOT Virgin EC and longer distance services), the 'normal' route is usually just referred to as the mainline. So you might say that there are no trains running on the mainline via Welwyn Garden City, or better yet, Alexandra Palace to Stevenage. Then with that info, people can surmise that trains are going via Hertford (as they were, albeit delayed) and to not bother going further up/down the line.
Someone at Knebworth or Welwyn North hears about problems at Stevenage and makes for WGC to pick up slow services (by car, bus, even bike), assuming nothing is coming south from Stevenage but they can get a 313 to Moorgate and change at Finsbury Park if needed.
Thing is, it seems that besides the initial message, GN was giving accurate information and saying it was Hatfield - so anyone that followed #Stevenage may have struggled to get accurate info, or any info. It seems someone realised and changed things accordingly.
All in all, given the problems on Thameslink, the best way for someone at Hatfield to get into London would have been to get a bus to Barnet or Queensbury, or get over to Hertford North (or even Hertford East). But hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Giving the correct station is, IMO, vital so people can make up their own mind on what to do. While the Hertford Loop is known by most commuters (but arguably NOT Virgin EC and longer distance services), the 'normal' route is usually just referred to as the mainline. So you might say that there are no trains running on the mainline via Welwyn Garden City, or better yet, Alexandra Palace to Stevenage. Then with that info, people can surmise that trains are going via Hertford (as they were, albeit delayed) and to not bother going further up/down the line.
Someone at Knebworth or Welwyn North hears about problems at Stevenage and makes for WGC to pick up slow services (by car, bus, even bike), assuming nothing is coming south from Stevenage but they can get a 313 to Moorgate and change at Finsbury Park if needed.
Thing is, it seems that besides the initial message, GN was giving accurate information and saying it was Hatfield - so anyone that followed #Stevenage may have struggled to get accurate info, or any info. It seems someone realised and changed things accordingly.
All in all, given the problems on Thameslink, the best way for someone at Hatfield to get into London would have been to get a bus to Barnet or Queensbury, or get over to Hertford North (or even Hertford East). But hindsight is a wonderful thing!
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