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ECML Power Supply Upgrade

59CosG95

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The new TSC at King Edward Bridge Junction (Gateshead side of said bridge) was landed today.
Only Chester-le-Street (new building on the old building's foundation) remains to be installed for Phase 2 (including Marshall Meadows!), and only Bretton remains for Phase 1.
 
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So south of Peterborough where it's mainly 4 track, does the AT feeding system use 4ATFs (one per contact line) or just two on the outsides?
 

Edvid

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Just two (one per direction), whether it's a 2-track or 4-track layout.
 
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what if it's an Up/Dn Up/Dn arrangement? Would that be one ATF for the fasts and one for the slows? (Specifically I'm interested in the arrangement on GEML post crossrail works)
 

59CosG95

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what if it's an Up/Dn Up/Dn arrangement? Would that be one ATF for the fasts and one for the slows? (Specifically I'm interested in the arrangement on GEML post crossrail works)
I think it might be, with the paralleling switching up at a drop-down to 2 tracks.

The Dn/Up/Dn/Up arrangement surprisingly works better for ATF from an isolation perspective; one track pair and AT feeder can be isolated while the other remains open.
 

Richard123

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Has ATF ever been implemented as looking at the feeder wire its still incomplete and earthed in multiple locations
You will find plenty earthed up on WCML too. It has a tendency to fail in the spring when neighbouring trees grow, as the live wire is almost above the railway boundary fence in many places.

There are multiple youtube videos of ATF versus tree with long periods of flames before the wires give in.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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You will find plenty earthed up on WCML too. It has a tendency to fail in the spring when neighbouring trees grow, as the live wire is almost above the railway boundary fence in many places.

There are multiple youtube videos of ATF versus tree with long periods of flames before the wires give in.
Umm so another example of enhancement investment failing to deliver the improvement in infrastructure capability.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I'd counter that and say it's a symptom of there being insufficient funds for devegetation works undertaken alongside high-risk electrical equipment.
Veg management is op costs and would get left because there is no op reason to have it energised. I.e. the current timetable is runable without it. Begs the question why it was ever installed though especially as we now have weak sections that require diesel under the wires.
 

59CosG95

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Acfb

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The ECML is power limited north of Newcastle, specifically around Berwick, in the current timetable. That‘s why TPE still run on diesel, so it’s almost certain a theoretical bimode XC service would also have to do the same.

(Work on the new SFC feeder station at Marshall Meadows appears to have started but then been deferred until some unknown date, but it’s probably better to keep that discussion in the ECML thread.)

I was at East Linton on Saturday and I noticed my return TPE service (802216) had the pantograph up. How long have the 802s been using the wires in Scotland?
 

Bald Rick

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I was at East Linton on Saturday and I noticed my return TPE service (802216) had the pantograph up. How long have the 802s been using the wires in Scotland?

AIUI there’s a trial inderway to assess power draw.
 

Scotrail88

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AIUI there’s a trial inderway to assess power draw.
Surely with units being more efficient nowadays, this should allow additional power use.

Hopefully this is successful as always seems stupid why running electric units under wires on diesel.

Is it just extended to Reston from Longriddry?

Hopefully test to introduce as part of Dec tt
 

GRALISTAIR

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Surely with units being more efficient nowadays, this should allow additional power use.

Hopefully this is successful as always seems stupid why running electric units under wires on diesel.

Hopefully test to introduce as part of Dec tt
I thought with modern power at seats, aircon etc etc they were more power hungry?
 

Bald Rick

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Surely with units being more efficient nowadays, this should allow additional power use.

Efficiency doesn’t really come into it. It is simply a question of power draw, and the 80x draw lots,and there’s lots of them.
 

Trainbike46

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It is important to consider the difference between mean power draw (which may well be lower due to better efficiency), and peak power draw (which is likely higher due to faster accelleration and possibly higher hotel loads).

The OHLE needs to be able to handle unfortunately-timed/coinciding peak power draw
 

Bald Rick

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I thought with modern power at seats, aircon etc etc they were more power hungry?

The trains they replaced all had this, and power at seats is essentially nothing compared to 2.64MW of traction motors on a 5 car. It’s simply about the physics of shifting c300 tonnes of train + load to 125mph.
 

Trainbike46

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I thought with modern power at seats, aircon etc etc they were more power hungry?
People often say this, but reasonably efficient AC really shouldn't be drawing more than electric train heating would, and it should always be one or the other

The trains they replaced all had this, and power at seats is essentially nothing compared to 2.64MW of traction motors on a 5 car. It’s simply about the physics of shifting c300 tonnes of train + load to 125mph.
though of course, with the 80x coming into service many diesel (HST) trains were replaced with electric ones (a good development!), so there was a big increase in electric services
 

AM9

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Surely with units being more efficient nowadays, this should allow additional power use.

Hopefully this is successful as always seems stupid why running electric units under wires on diesel.

Is it just extended to Reston from Longriddry?

Hopefully test to introduce as part of Dec tt
Power efficiency of the 801s may be higher than the class 91s that the line was electrified. If their maximum power is higher than the previous stock, i.e. the class 92's 4.5/4.7MW, it is possible for there to be peak demand that exceed the supply capability for short periods. Such a case would be during acceleration where more than one higher powered 801 would reach the cruising speed quicker whereas the 91s, - would spread that power for a longer period at a lower levels, therefore keeping within the supply limit.
 

GRALISTAIR

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The trains they replaced all had this, and power at seats is essentially nothing compared to 2.64MW of traction motors on a 5 car. It’s simply about the physics of shifting c300 tonnes of train + load to 125mph.

Being the nerdy type I am, that’s sounds like some fun for me one night doing the calcs when I have not consumed any alcohol of course!

People often say this, but reasonably efficient AC really shouldn't be drawing more than electric train heating would, and it should always be one or the other

though of course, with the 80x coming into service many diesel (HST) trains were replaced with electric ones (a good development!), so there was a big increase in electric services
Sorry yes, that’s my point.
So PSU1 and 2 took care of most of the needs especially if Marshall Meadows ever gets done?
 
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Have there been any further commissionings over Christmas/new year?

I'm not sure anyone has suggested unaffordable? A National Grid connection costs many tens of millions up front, and around half a million a year in annual service fees. It is big infrastructure.

It was written at the time that GBR considered there to be too many trains on the northern ECML for future passenger demand, and a "benefit" of GBR would be scaling back services through a whole-industry view. See Modern Railways. MM seems to have been a casualty of this rescoping, among other schemes.

That passenger numbers are now above pre-Covid is a moot point, and we are now in a different control period.

Regarding rapid change in other projects, I doubt this. National Grid contracts are committed many years ahead due to their timescales. Not a good look to change course, if maybe 10% of the overall electrification cost has already been sunk in Grid contracts, even if it saved money overall?
Sorry to conjure up something from so long ago - but what/where is the Modern Railways article that discusses GBR scaling back services on the Northern Part of ECML? Like what month/year could help.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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NR has written to ORR about access rights on ECML which has section (11) on the the power supply noting sections which aren't yet upgraded to ATF.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/defaul...-general-representation-2025-03-14-letter.pdf

11.4 King’s Cross to Reston
11.4.1 ESDD have modelled two scenarios: 1) where the power supply upgrade (PSU) project is fully commissioned by December 2025 and 2) where the PSU project is delayed. There will be a delay to the commissioning of some of the PSU sites, in particular autotransformer feeders (ATF) between Welwyn and Hitchin, and at this time Network Rail cannot confirm when the PSU project will be fully commissioned.
11.4.2 As a result of this delay, scenario 2 has been modelled by ESDD for December 2025 without the ATF commissioned. Scenario 2 concludes that the power supply for the ECML ESG baseline will be compliant during normal feeding arrangements but there is operational risk during perturbation, in particular between Welwyn and Hitchin until ATF is commissioned and Grantham and Retford as well as north of Newcastle to Reston until a solution is developed and funded for these areas.
Surprised they don't have full ATF at the South end had thought the problem was further North?

11.5 North of Reston to Edinburgh
11.5.1 The ESDD modelling assumes no additional alteration to existing infrastructure for December 2025 on ECML north of Reston. The modelled timetable is consistent with Eastern region in that the ESG timetable has been modelled. The Scotland model looks into different scenarios of the proposed timetable alterations and combined composite scenarios to look at the collective impact of proposed timetable alterations.
11.5.2 Early draft indications have shown that individual modelling scenarios for some proposals are within compliant parameters under normal operating scenarios with established local operational mitigations (in order to protect the power supply), the composite modelling scenarios remain a challenge with voltage regulation and loading parameters.
11.5.3 A modelled scenario, to extend the feeding area of Portobello Feeder station to Drem, has been looked at with early results looking like this will provide incremental improvements with voltage regulation and capacity concerns at Innerwick.
11.5.4 Alternate Feeding (N-1) remains a challenge for Innerwick Feeder Station with select operators required to operate in diesel under Grid Outages or unplanned outages. There may be some operational risk during perturbation, until such point future power upgrades are carried out at Innerwick Feeder Station. Network Rail will continue to work with industry colleagues to mitigate this risk.

No mention of Marshall Meadows and thus presumably certain trains will still need to run on diesel on some sections.
 

Edvid

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Surprised they don't have full ATF at the South end had thought the problem was further North?
The planned ECML South upgrade to autotransformer feeding was (almost) entirely descoped to boosterless classic feeding. The requirement for insulated ATF runs because of possession arrangements with respect to the ECML's non-bidi paired-by-direction configuration may have been a factor in that.
 
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What is special about the stretch between Welwyn to Hitchin that it was deemed worthwhile to fit AT? Especially since all the trains that are there are also still there south of Welwyn?
 

St. Paddy

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The new feeder at Grantham was advertised to Drivers as being switched on at 0700 last Monday, 24th March
 

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