Elizabeth Line: Passengers confused over whether it's a tube or train line and what should be done about it.

[infobleep]

Doubt it. Hasn't happened with other lines and you just know that the Daily Heil et al would spin it as a massive insult to the late Queen.


If that is actually so TfL are massively violating consumer protection legislation and would be crucified in a Court.

I suspect they wouldn't let it get to court.

As for the line, no way would the line be renamed.

 

[Wolfie]

I suspect they wouldn't let it get to court.

As for the line, no way would the line be renamed.

Re your first sentence l absolutely agree. Any decent lawyer would advise them that.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

The Overground could get colour names if the lines do get branded? Thus Overground - colour names, Crossrail - numbers, Underground - random names.

"Elizabeth Line" I feel would be more suitable for a brand new future Underground line as it sounds similiar to the Victoria line.

I thought to myself the Elizabeth Line was just the politicians fawning over the Queen as it was around or the "buzz" coming from the 2012 Olympics & Diamond Jubliee also the likeliness of the upcoming Platinum Jubliee.

EL is probably here to stay, likely too costly & bureaucratic to undo it all so here's to future Crossrails - the Charles Line, Philip Line and William Line etc!

 

[infobleep]

The Overground could get colour names if the lines do get branded? Thus Overground - colour names, Crossrail - numbers, Underground - random names.

"Elizabeth Line" I feel would be more suitable for a brand new future Underground line as it sounds similiar to the Victoria line.

I thought to myself the Elizabeth Line was just the politicians fawning over the Queen as it was around or the "buzz" coming from the 2012 Olympics & Diamond Jubliee also the likeliness of the upcoming Platinum Jubliee.

EL is probably here to stay, likely too costly & bureaucratic to undo it all so here's to future Crossrails - the Charles Line, Philip Line and William Line etc!

What about the Andrew Line?

 

[CBlue]

What about the Andrew Line?

That'll be for the Woking extension! Station to be built under the world's most memorable Pizza Express

 

[Wolfie]

That'll be for the Woking extension! Station to be built under the world's most memorable Pizza Express

No sweat no matter how crowded the trains are, huh....

 

[LLivery]

I suspect they wouldn't let it get to court.

As for the line, no way would the line be renamed.

I imagine it's more likely the mode name would revert back to 'Crossrail' or something like that, and the route would remain as 'Elizabeth'. Mode roundles would need changing, but that's about it.

 

[matt_world2004]

That's quite astonishing. Wonder what would happen if that ended up in court?

They actually sent a briefing out to staff pointing it out as a customer pain point. You can see the briefing in one of the information boards at Maidenhead

Also the respective controls at both MTR and LU do not arrange ticket acceptance on each others services during unplanned disruptio. because they incorrectly assume tickets are valid on each others services.

I believe rail closures planning arrange ticket acceptance during planned disruption but that is only because it is mentioned in the traffic circular

 

[NorthKent1989]

The Elizabeth line in my view is a mix between the London Overground and Thameslink, so in a ideal world, all three of those modes would be under one umbrella mode of transportation.

But one man’s tube is another man’s suburban rail, hear people refer to the East London line as still being part of the tube, yet other parts of the Overground people just say “the overground”

 

[PeterC]

Are passengers actually confused?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Elizabeth line in my view is a mix between the London Overground and Thameslink, so in a ideal world, all three of those modes would be under one umbrella mode of transportation.

But one man’s tube is another man’s suburban rail, hear people refer to the East London line as still being part of the tube, yet other parts of the Overground people just say “the overground”

The term "the overground" has been used for trains in London long before TfL started using the brand. It's just a phrase for "not the Underground", i.e. mainline suburban trains around London, whether they happen to be TfL operated or not, e.g. the extensive suburban networks out of Victoria, London Bridge, Blackfriars, Cannon St and Waterloo. Some of these did briefly carry "Overground Network" branding, but the term has been used since long before that.

Are passengers actually confused?

The vast majority of people don't care, they just tap in their contactless or Oyster and let that work it out.

 

[AdamWW]

Are passengers actually confused?

TFL were quoted as saying that passengers were confused as to how the fares work on the Elizabeth Line.

I don't suppose they'd have much reason to say that if it wasn't the case.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It's not surprising this has happened. Yes they should have kept it as plain old Crossrail, the Elizabeth Line as is has an infuriatingly complicated service pattern that is completely counterintuitive as an Underground line. Even the Metropolitan line clearly states the differing service patterns with platform signage and on car maps. The Elizabeth Line does neither to designate between slow and semi fast services. I wonder how many people have wanted to go to Acton MainLine and ended up in Ealing.

I suggested that Crossrail should return as a mode, with individual lines being made up within it. For instance, Paddington to Shenfield and Abbey Wood to wherever being separate lines to make things clearer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suggested that Crossrail should return as a mode, with individual lines being made up within it.

I can certainly see there being "the Crossrail Elizabeth Line" and "the Crossrail Charles Line" if/what CR 2 happens.

For instance, Paddington to Shenfield and Abbey Wood to wherever being separate lines to make things clearer.

I don't see a huge need for a split by branches, the Northern Line copes fine. It is the stopping patterns that could do with standardisation.

 

[PTR 444]

It's not surprising this has happened. Yes they should have kept it as plain old Crossrail, the Elizabeth Line as is has an infuriatingly complicated service pattern that is completely counterintuitive as an Underground line. Even the Metropolitan line clearly states the differing service patterns with platform signage and on car maps. The Elizabeth Line does neither to designate between slow and semi fast services. I wonder how many people have wanted to go to Acton MainLine and ended up in Ealing.

I suggested that Crossrail should return as a mode, with individual lines being made up within it. For instance, Paddington to Shenfield and Abbey Wood to wherever being separate lines to make things clearer.

What might have been quite poignant if the service pattern had materialised, would have been to name the Reading - Shenfield and Heathrow - Abbey Wood services individually as the Elizabeth Line and Philip Line respectively. A bit like how the Metropolitan Line had the Hammersmith & City Line identity split off from it.

 

[NorthKent1989]

What might have been quite poignant if the service pattern had materialised, would have been to name the Reading - Shenfield and Heathrow - Abbey Wood services individually as the Elizabeth Line and Philip Line respectively. A bit like how the Metropolitan Line had the Hammersmith & City Line identity split off from it.

The Current service pattern is similar to the old Met/HamCity lines.

The Paddington to Shenfield service is an all stopping inner suburban metro similar to the Hammersmith & City, while the Reading/Heathrow to Abbey Wood service has a skip stop/semi fast pattern and is outer suburban like the Metropolitan.

 

[PTR 444]

The Current service pattern is similar to the old Met/HamCity lines.

The Paddington to Shenfield service is an all stopping inner suburban metro similar to the Hammersmith & City, while the Reading/Heathrow to Abbey Wood service has a skip stop/semi fast pattern and is outer suburban like the Metropolitan.

Which gives it more reason to have separate identities (or alphanumeric codes) for different service patterns.

 

[infobleep]

I can certainly see there being "the Crossrail Elizabeth Line" and "the Crossrail Charles Line" if/what CR 2 happens.

That is too long and wordy in my opinion. Needs to be short when someone makes an emergency phone call.

Also not a good idea to start with the word the when naming things such as this.

 

[GC class B1]

To my understanding the key difference between tube (ie London Underground) & DLR and the Overground and Elizabeth line is that although all are the responsibility of TfL, Overground and Elizabeth Line are National Rail and BR concessions are valid on them. Thameslink is not the responsibility of TfL.

 

[AdamWW]

To my understanding the key difference between tube (ie London Underground) & DLR and the Overground and Elizabeth line is that although all are the responsibility of TfL, Overground and Elizabeth Line are National Rail and BR concessions are valid on them. Thameslink is not the responsibility of TfL.

Yes but....

You can buy a National Rail ticket to any Overground station, can't you?
But that's not true on the Elizabeth line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is too long and wordy in my opinion. Needs to be short when someone makes an emergency phone call.

Also not a good idea to start with the word the when naming things such as this.

I didn't mean whacking that across the roundel literally, I meant name it like the Underground, i.e. the mode is Underground and the line is the Victoria Line, or the mode is Crossrail and the line is the Charles Line.

 

[GC class B1]

Yes but....

You can buy a National Rail ticket to any Overground station, can't you?
But that's not true on the Elizabeth line.

I have just checked NRE and it has offered me a ticket to Bond Street Elizabeth line station.

 

[cle]

It's two trains and a tube, with through running!

The far more civilised people of Tokyo have handled this concept for decades, as their legacy subway lines (two companies!) where threaded together with suburban lines - bust through from temini like Shibuya and Shinjuku. And those span far beyond JR to Toei, Tokyu, Odayku, blah... and people don't break down having to compartmentalize it.

Really, it's just a train. But so is the tube. And we could just call that the train, much like they do in Glasgow where we have the same thing at low level. Who cares.

 

[infobleep]

I didn't mean whacking that across the roundel literally, I meant name it like the Underground, i.e. the mode is Underground and the line is the Victoria Line, or the mode is Crossrail and the line is the Charles Line.

I see what you mean now.
So
Crossrail
Elizabeth Line

As opposed to
Crossrail the Elizabeth Line

 

[AdamWW]

I have just checked NRE and it has offered me a ticket to Bond Street Elizabeth line station.

But isn't it offering you a ticket to (e.g.) Paddington with a zone 1 underground add-on?

I thought that's how it worked (and I'll be pleased if I'm wrong).

 

[GC class B1]

But isn't it offering you a ticket to (e.g.) Paddington with a zone 1 underground add-on?

I thought that's how it worked (and I'll be pleased if I'm wrong).

I haven’t bought a ticket as my status pass is valid on this route. It offers me an itinerary of a train to St Pancras, Thameslink to Farringdon and EL to Bond Steet

 

[NorthKent1989]

Which gives it more reason to have separate identities (or alphanumeric codes) for different service patterns.

Certainly, although I believe some Shenfield trains do serve Heathrow, and these ones are all stops while Abbey Wood trains are all semi fast.

Personally I’d have the Abbey Wood-Heathrow/Reading service labelled as Crossrail, then have the Heathrow/Paddington-Shenfield trains as the Elizabeth line

 

[matt_world2004]

I haven’t bought a ticket as my status pass is valid on this route. It offers me an itinerary of a train to St Pancras, Thameslink to Farringdon and EL to Bond Steet

There have been reports here of staff rejecting valid status passes at bond street . If staff are confused the general public certainly are

 

[AdamWW]

I haven’t bought a ticket as my status pass is valid on this route. It offers me an itinerary of a train to St Pancras, Thameslink to Farringdon and EL to Bond Steet

I just tried a test purchase.

I was offered an itinerary to Bond Street (Elizabeth Line).

But the ticket is to "London Underground Zone 1" with an extra £3 to travel that one stop to Bond Street.

 

[matt_world2004]

I just tried a test purchase.

I was offered an itinerary to Bond Street (Elizabeth Line).

But the ticket is to "London Underground Zone 1" with an extra £3 to travel that one stop to Bond Street.

People with priv tickets can get an addon for their existing london terminals tickets that allow then to travel in the core for an extra £1 priv nr oysters should allow travel through the core as well