Elizabeth Line - paying for travel

[HantsExile]

I'm planning a day trip to travel on the whole of the Elizabeth Line. As an ex-Londoner who vainly hoped that 'Crossrail' would arrive in time to help my travel in the city, I'm keen to now experience it in action - better late than never?

My planned journey is:

Winchester
Waterloo
Canary Wharf
Abbey Wood
Whitechapel
Shenfield
Whitechapel
Hayes & Harlington
Heathrow
Hayes & Harlington
Reading
Winchester

I have some queries about how I pay for my travel.

• I will be using an Oyster card from Waterloo. At terminus stations i.e. Abbey Wood and Shenfield, do I have to get off my incoming train, tap out and tap in again before retracing my steps?
• The Elizabeth Line diagram says that there are 'special fares' between Brentwood and Shenfield. Are these included in the Oyster card or do I need to buy an extra ticket? If the latter, do I need to tap my Oyster card out at Brentwood and then in again on the return journey?
• I am aware that Oyster does not cover Hayes & Harlington to Reading, and that I will need to buy an extra ticket. Do I have to tap my Oyster card out at Hayes & Harlington before travelling on to Reading?

If anyone can help me with answers to these queries and any other general advice, that would be much appreciated.

 

[JonathanH]

I will be using an Oyster card from Waterloo. At terminus stations i.e. Abbey Wood and Shenfield, do I have to get off my incoming train, tap out and tap in again before retracing my steps?

Is there a reason you wouldn't want to do this using a Outboundary one-day Travelcard?

If you buy a one-day travelcard from Winchester, the only extra ticket you need is a off-peak day return from Boundary of Zone 6 to Shenfield. The travelcard is valid to return from Reading to Winchester on the way back.

If you do need to use an Oyster card, and you expect to hit the cap, then you should touch out at the ends of the routes you cover.

Technically you can't be off-route with Oyster and Contactless, but you can trigger a maximum fare if you take longer than allowed for the relevant journey. With an Oyster card, a ticket inspector gets to see where you have touched in, so may ask questions of someone travelling in the wrong direction.

The Elizabeth Line diagram says that there are 'special fares' between Brentwood and Shenfield. Are these included in the Oyster card or do I need to buy an extra ticket? If the latter, do I need to tap my Oyster card out at Brentwood and then in again on the return journey?

Oyster is valid to Shenfield. The reference to 'special fares' is just because Shenfield is outside Zones 1-9 so the fares aren't structured on a zonal basis. If you touch out at Shenfield and back in, the cap for this station will be the amount you pay. The cap at Shenfield is £23.70. Travel in Zones 1 to 6 on other routes is included in this cap.

I am aware that Oyster does not cover Hayes & Harlington to Reading, and that I will need to buy an extra ticket. Do I have to tap my Oyster card out at Hayes & Harlington before travelling on to Reading?

A return from Winchester to London (or indeed Shenfield) is valid between Hayes & Harlington and Reading.

 

[HantsExile]

Is there a reason you wouldn't want to do this using a Outboundary one-day Travelcard?

If you buy a one-day travelcard from Winchester, the only extra ticket you need is a off-peak day return from Boundary of Zone 6 to Shenfield. The travelcard is valid to return from Reading to Winchester on the way back.

If you do need to use an Oyster card, and you expect to hit the cap, then you should touch out at the ends of the routes you cover.

Technically you can't be off-route with Oyster and Contactless, but you can trigger a maximum fare if you take longer than allowed for the relevant journey. With an Oyster card, a ticket inspector gets to see where you have touched in, so may ask questions of someone travelling in the wrong direction.


Oyster is valid to Shenfield. The reference to 'special fares' is just because Shenfield is outside Zones 1-9 so the fares aren't structured on a zonal basis. If you touch out at Shenfield and back in, the cap for this station will be the amount you pay. The cap at Shenfield is £23.70. Travel in Zones 1 to 6 on other routes is included in this cap.


A return from Winchester to London (or indeed Shenfield) is valid between Hayes & Harlington and Reading.

Many thanks JonathanH for this helpful reply.

I hadn't heard of an Outboundary one-day Travelcard, I will look into this as it may be helpful for other trips as well as potentially this one. I have an active Oyster card used on my many trips to London so I just felt this would be the easiest option.

I thought I couldn't get a return Winchester - London as my outward journey is Winchester - Waterloo and my return journey is Reading - Winchester. I was looking to get Advance Singles for these legs. Maybe a Single Winchester to Shenfield via Waterloo and a Single Hayes & Harlington to Winchester via Reading? Or there may be a possible return? This could be interesting!

You've confirmed that with the maximum fare trigger, inspectors etc., if I do use Oyster it will be safest to tap out and in at terminal stations.

Thanks again for a really comprehensive answer which has given me much food for thought and exploration!

 

[Sunil_P]

I would have thought Winchester-Basingstoke-Woking-Waterloo and Paddington-Reading-Basingstoke-Winchester would both come under "any permitted"?

 

[swt_passenger]

I would have thought Winchester-Basingstoke-Woking-Waterloo and Paddington-Reading-Basingstoke-Winchester would both come under "any permitted"?

Yes they do. I think I’d be using a straightforward Offpeak day travelcard from Winchester for this, and would swerve the last bit out to Shenfield. Is it Harold Wood that’s the last station in zone 6?

 

[JonathanH]

I would have thought Winchester-Basingstoke-Woking-Waterloo and Paddington-Reading-Basingstoke-Winchester would both come under "any permitted"?

Yes, but the original poster appears to be thinking in terms of the saving on SWR by using advance tickets, disregarding the possible higher costs overall. It really depends on how cheap they can get the advance ticket element.

An off-peak day travelcard from Winchester is £56.90, then it is a further £7.80 for an off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Shenfield.

The off-peak cap on Oyster at Shenfield is £23.70, and a single fare on Contactless from Hayes & Harlington to Reading is £8.10, provided travel isn't between 0630 and 0930 or 1600 and 1900 on a weekday.

If advance fares for Winchester to Waterloo, and Reading to Winchester can be had for less than £32.90, then it could be cheaper to use the Oyster option in London, although hitting the time of the advance ticket at Reading would be something of a gamble.

 

[HantsExile]

Yes, but the original poster appears to be thinking in terms of the saving on SWR by using advance tickets, disregarding the possible higher costs overall. It really depends on how cheap they can get the advance ticket element.

An off-peak day travelcard from Winchester is £56.90, then it is a further £7.80 for an off-peak day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Shenfield.

The off-peak cap on Oyster at Shenfield is £23.70, and a single fare on Contactless from Hayes & Harlington to Reading is £8.10, provided travel isn't between 0630 and 0930 or 1600 and 1900 on a weekday.

If advance fares for Winchester to Waterloo, and Reading to Winchester can be had for less than £32.90, then it could be cheaper to use the Oyster option in London.

Many thanks to all who've replied, very useful stuff!

I'm going offline now but will check back later in the day in case any more nuggets of
wisdom are posted.

I'll also do my best to post my eventual solution in case it's helpful to anyone else (though how many people are mad enough like me to want to do a whole-line trip 'just cos it's there').

 

[Sunil_P]

Many thanks to all who've replied, very useful stuff!

I'm going offline now but will check back later in the day in case any more nuggets of
wisdom are posted.

I'll also do my best to post my eventual solution in case it's helpful to anyone else (though how many people are mad enough like me to want to do a whole-line trip 'just cos it's there').

Well, I'll bite! Back in July, I did King's Cross to Edinburgh and back just to do the Newhaven (Leith) tram extension

 

[HantsExile]

Well, I'll bite! Back in July, I did King's Cross to Edinburgh and back just to do the Newhaven (Leith) tram extension

 

[Hadders]

If I was doing this I'd buy:

Off Peak Day Travelcard from Winchester to London Zones 1-6 £56.90
Boundary Zone 6 to Shenfield Off Peak Day Return £7.80

The above fares can be discounted by 34% if an appropriate railcard is held. I don't know how much Advance tickets are between Waterloo and London but I doubt you'd be able to get Advance tickets and the cost of Oyster PAYG travel much cheaper than this. Also no need to touch in or out with this combination.

 

[telstarbox]

There is a handy Sainsbury's with toilets just outside Abbey Wood station if you need it.

 

[HantsExile]

Thanks Hadders - I hold a Senior RailCard and your suggested fare strategy does look good!

And thanks telstarbox for the heads-up (?) re the Sainsbury's with toilets at Abbey Wood - much appreciated.

I happened to be at Winchester station around midday today (posting a letter) and was going to discuss my plans with the helpful ticket office personnel - but there was a queue of ? 10 people waiting for service. My thoughts on that fit another thread (the one about ticket office closures) ...

Next step is to clear a space in my life for a 'deep dive' into all the options, taking all this thread's excellent advice into account.

I'll return when I come up for air!

 

[Class800]

There are toilets at Abbey Wood Station too

 

[cav1975]

No toilets at Woolwich, the next station along the line. The barrier persons seems to spend half her time directing people to nearby public one.

 

[Class800]

No toilets at Woolwich, the next station along the line. The barrier persons seems to spend half her time directing people to nearby public one.

The toilets next to Woolwich Arsenal have been knocked down and the ones in the market square near the Elizabeth line station are the most disgusting I've ever seen. I cannot keep my feet dry. If in dire need, go to Tesco or Wetherspoons, both within 5 minutes walk

 

[Sunil_P]

There are toilets at Abbey Wood Station too

They weren't open the first week of Lizzie Line opening last May, so I had to pop over to Sainsbury's!

 

[HantsExile]

Quick update!

It's all coming together very nicely. The Off Peak Day Travelcard Winchester - London with an additional ticket for Shenfield looks like the best option.

To avoid possible 'evening peak' issues on the Reading leg, I'm now planning the trip the 'other way round':

Winchester
Reading
Whitechapel
Shenfield
Whitechapel
Abbey Wood
Canary Wharf
Waterloo
Winchester

All looks very possible timewise within the off peak hours, including breaks for coffee and lunch (and 'comfort breaks' - thanks for the toilet info!).

I've pencilled the trip in for next Tuesday (3rd), there is an overtime ban then but I think (hope) I've got enough flexibility to deal with any mainline train cancellations.

Thanks again to all who have given such helpful advice. I'll let you know how it goes ...

 

[Haywain]

With an Oyster card, a ticket inspector gets to see where you have touched in, so may ask questions of someone travelling in the wrong direction.

With an Oyster card using PAYG (or having a PAYG balance) as long as you are touched in and remain within the Oyster card area there is no concept of "travelling in the wrong direction" as your journey is only defined when you touch out.

 

[JonathanH]

With an Oyster card using PAYG (or having a PAYG balance) as long as you are touched in and remain within the Oyster card area there is no concept of "travelling in the wrong direction" as your journey is only defined when you touch out.

While that is correct, an inspector seeing where you have touched in and considering you to be "travelling in the wrong direction" could conceivably raise their eyebrow.

Quite what they could then do is unclear.

With the right tap in and tap out strategy, someone could conceivably cover all the Elizabeth Line routes only touching in Zones 1 and 2 and not fall foul of the maximum journey times. That might be interpreted to represent an intent not to pay the correct fare.

 

[Haywain]

an inspector seeing where you have touched in and considering you to be "travelling in the wrong direction" could conceivably raise their eyebrow.

How would they even consider that to be happening? If I touched in at, for example, Whitechapel and boarded a train, which way is the "wrong direction"?

 

[Deerfold]

How would they even consider that to be happening? If I touched in at, for example, Whitechapel and boarded a train, which way is the "wrong direction"?

One where you're heading towards Whitechapel?

 

[Haywain]

One where you're heading towards Whitechapel?

As long as you are touched in, have a PAYG balance, and are within the Oyster area it is valid.

 

[Deerfold]

As long as you are touched in, have a PAYG balance, and are within the Oyster area it is valid.

Yes, I'm aware of that. You asked why someone might consider someone to be travelling in the wrong direction.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Quick update!

It's all coming together very nicely. The Off Peak Day Travelcard Winchester - London with an additional ticket for Shenfield looks like the best option.

To avoid possible 'evening peak' issues on the Reading leg, I'm now planning the trip the 'other way round':

Winchester
Reading
Whitechapel
Shenfield
Whitechapel
Abbey Wood
Canary Wharf
Waterloo
Winchester

You may as well change at one of the other central stations the first time instead of Whitechapel, as you’ll be changing there again.

 

[HantsExile]

You may as well change at one of the other central stations the first time instead of Whitechapel, as you’ll be changing there again.

Yes good point!

One factor is that I have Whitechapel down as a possible lunch spot, quite a trendy area I think. I'm not looking for a 3 course meal but a tasty snack. At the moment - and it's all very woolly at the moment - I should arrive at Whitechapel on the return leg from Shenfield around 13.30, good lunch timing.

That leaves me free to choose a difference change station on the Reading - Shenfield leg. Choices, choices ...

 

[TFN]

The toilets next to Woolwich Arsenal have been knocked down and the ones in the market square near the Elizabeth line station are the most disgusting I've ever seen.

Good news! Those are also permanently closed as of last week.

 

[HantsExile]

Just popped in to say: I was planning to do my Elizabeth Line trip this week but am having to postpone. Other commitments mean I won't be able to re-diarise (!) it till November.

In the meantime, thanks again to all for the advice and guidance, I'll be back with a report when I've done the trip.

 

[HantsExile]

Greetings all! Elizabeth Line trip now completed, with a friend.

We bought tickets in line with the v useful guidance given on this thread i.e. Off Peak Day Travelcard Winchester - London with an additional return ticket for the end section of the Shenfield branch.

All sections of the line completed with minimal delays. Winchester to Reading, then Reading via Heathrow to Hanwell for a nostalgic break of journey. Hanwell used to be my local station, it's Grade 1 (?) listed and I was interested to see how they'd managed to install the lifts. Then Hanwell to Bethnal Green for a decent pub lunch opposite the station (Royal Hospital pub ???), followed by the Shenfield and Abbey Wood branches before returning to Winchester via Canary Wharf and Waterloo.

An enjoyable and interesting day. Many thanks to all who helped with advice and information!