Elizabeth line related timetable recast on the North Kent line?

[NorthKent1989]

Wasn’t this supposed to happen at some stage?

Seeing the sheer number of people transferring from the North Kent line onto the Elizabeth line at Abbey Wood (and Woolwich to an extent) I would have thought that a timetable change would occur at some point in the future, when the DLR arrived at Greenwich and Lewisham I recall they waited a while to see how many people would change on to the new service at those stations (hence why the old Gillingham semi fasts were switched to run via Greenwich as it was a quicker interchange)

Weren’t there plans for 4tph from Gravesend to Abbey Wood (then onward to a London destination) and also for a Maidstone West service to connect at Abbey Wood?

 

[zwk500]

Extension beyond Abbey wood was always a long term possibility rather than a firm goal.
At this time there are no concrete plans to change the timetable to accommodate Crossrail, hence why the connection is a single ended siding.
There may be other service changes that increase connectivity, but the major recast coming in a year or so is driven by multiple factors including crossrail, service pattern changes, new stations and other long term strategy.

 

[cle]

With 12tph, you are unlikely to see two successive North Kent services spill onto a single Crossrail service. And it should even have some which are empty for locals and bus/Thamesmead users, with capacity for further in.

I can't see the timetable needing to change, although of course, the Rainham is basically the only service beyond Dartford. I would think there is more than 2tph demand from the likes of Greenhithe and Gravesend onto Crossrail. Lots of rounders still.

 

[cslusarc]

Do all North Kent line trains stop @ Abbey Wood?

 

[cle]

Do all North Kent line trains stop @ Abbey Wood?

All the ones routed that way do, yes. It's always been a semi-fast stop, e.g. on the Charing Cross - Gillinghams (via Lewisham and Woolwich)

 

[NorthKent1989]

Do all North Kent line trains stop @ Abbey Wood?

Yes they do, all 8tph but there’s only 2tph that go beyond Dartford and that’s the very slow Thameslink service.

All the ones routed that way do, yes. It's always been a semi-fast stop, e.g. on the Charing Cross - Gillinghams (via Lewisham and Woolwich)

The CX-Gillingham service sadly no longer runs, but it would have been a useful and much faster link to Abbey Wood

 

[cle]

Yep agreed. It seems that there should now be more than 2tph to Dartford especially, but also beyond. The rounders aren't going to feed Crossrail as much, except for the adjacent east of Abbey Wood stations themselves.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Yep agreed. It seems that there should now be more than 2tph to Dartford especially, but also beyond. The rounders aren't going to feed Crossrail as much, except for the adjacent east of Abbey Wood stations themselves.

Certainly 4tph to Gravesend, the Thameslink isn’t the most reliable service and the Rainham service is usually the one they cut, meaning Medway and Gravesend will have no Elizabeth line connection.

Personally I’d extend the CX-Dartford via Blackheath/Woolwich to Gravesend (calling only at Greenhithe after Dartford) in the peaks these could run from Strood or Rochester or even Maidstone West, divert one of the Rounders (probably the Bexleyheath Rounder service) to Dartford, meaning 6tph from Abbey Wood to Dartford and 4tph to Gravesend.

Any extension to the Elizabeth line won’t happen this side of 2045-2050 so better rail connects to the line must be made in the meantime.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Things we need:

- Quarter-hourly Rounder via Sidcup, reducing the Crayford to Dartford service to half-hourly all day. Crayford to Dartford is quite competitive by bus, and if you’re coming from Lewisham you have options.

- No rounders from the Bexleyheath line. Barnehurst, Bexleyheath, Welling etc are easy bus or even car (and don’t forget many who live in certain places currently use Bexleyheath line stations but it’s marginal) to Abbey Wood and Woolwich.

- Existing Gravesend services all day via Abbey Wood (not Sidcup) and also the Thameslink ones. Make the corridor for Gravesend and Greenhithe competitive to Abbey Wood.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

The hourly Tonbridge to Strood services would never be extended, the hourly Maidstone West to Stroods maybe would make sense to Abbey Wood or Plumstead just for a siding to turn round in resulting in 3tph to the Elizabeth Line from Strood 1tph from Maidstone West adding in another train from Gravesend to Abbey Wood too.

The challenges are most of the daytime train crew on the medway valley line are from Tonbridge and none of them would be route trained resulting in more drivers taking over from Strood...sigh...more difficulties

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Good grief, you guys are all going to be in for shock when the details of Dec 22 are announced.

Things we need:

- Quarter-hourly Rounder via Sidcup, reducing the Crayford to Dartford service to half-hourly all day. Crayford to Dartford is quite competitive by bus, and if you’re coming from Lewisham you have options.

- No rounders from the Bexleyheath line. Barnehurst, Bexleyheath, Welling etc are easy bus or even car (and don’t forget many who live in certain places currently use Bexleyheath line stations but it’s marginal) to Abbey Wood and Woolwich.

- Existing Gravesend services all day via Abbey Wood (not Sidcup) and also the Thameslink ones. Make the corridor for Gravesend and Greenhithe competitive to Abbey Wood.

None of that is going to happen.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Good grief, you guys are all going to be in for shock when the details of Dec 22 are announced.


None of that is going to happen.

I don’t mind if it’s not going to happen, I said “Things we need” based on local transport needs and modal shift desire.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Good grief, you guys are all going to be in for shock when the details of Dec 22 are announced.


None of that is going to happen.

What’s going to happen?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

What’s going to happen?

Probably next to nothing, hence the shock, as we will see a rollover with minor Metro timing alterations and therefore a lack of natural feed to Abbey Wood: