Elizabeth line ticketing

[transportphoto]

View attachment 115320

Somewhat off topic, but that is the most fake looking real ticket I’ve seen in a long time! I’d expect a higher standard from brand new TVMs.

 

[island]

Regarding the use of London Terminals tickets on the Elizabeth line, the internal version of the National Rail website now states (my highlighting in the second paragraph):

Tickets with Origin/Destination London Terminals​

Fares for travel to or from ‘London Terminals’ are shown in Journey Planners and your Ticket Issuing Systems.

They are valid to or from any of the National Rail stations shown below served by a route or routes permitted for the relevant journey in the Routing Guide. They do not include travel between these stations on London Underground, Elizabeth line, Docklands Light Railway or London Buses services.

(Note: to forbid travel between Abbey Wood and Liverpool Street this should say something like "travel is not permitted on the central section of the Elizabeth line except on the interavailable route between Stratford and Liverpool Street")

Nothing in "internal" websites can forbid or prevent anything; non-public documents are in no way binding on consumers.

 

[Kite159]

Nothing in "internal" websites can forbid or prevent anything; non-public documents are in no way binding on consumers.

I would imagine at some point a route of something like "Not valid via Custom House" will appear on tickets to London Terminals from the South East if they want to prohibit passengers from using a London terminals ticket on the Liz line.

(I did read somewhere that tickets to "Farringdon" as a destination will get "Via City Thameslink" in the routing field to force passengers on the slower route via City Thameslink (although I suspect someone will be very unlucky to come across an on-train RPI between Abbey Wood & Farringdon)

 

[PeterC]

Nothing in "internal" websites can forbid or prevent anything; non-public documents are in no way binding on consumers.

Fine, just don't accuse staff of "making things up" when they follow instructions

 

[matt_world2004]

I would imagine at some point a route of something like "Not valid via Custom House" will appear on tickets to London Terminals from the South East if they want to prohibit passengers from using a London terminals ticket on the Liz line.

(I did read somewhere that tickets to "Farringdon" as a destination will get "Via City Thameslink" in the routing field to force passengers on the slower route via City Thameslink (although I suspect someone will be very unlucky to come across an on-train RPI between Abbey Wood & Farringdon)

Given how prelevent RPIs have been on the western and eastern end . They are probably more likely to run into a RPI on the Elizabeth line than other lines

 

[miklcct]

(I did read somewhere that tickets to "Farringdon" as a destination will get "Via City Thameslink" in the routing field to force passengers on the slower route via City Thameslink (although I suspect someone will be very unlucky to come across an on-train RPI between Abbey Wood & Farringdon)

like the one from Reading to Farringdon, routed "Not Underground" which gained validity on the fast trains to Paddington as a result?

 

[greyman42]

Regarding the use of London Terminals tickets on the Elizabeth line, the internal version of the National Rail website now states (my highlighting in the second paragraph):

Tickets with Origin/Destination London Terminals​

Fares for travel to or from ‘London Terminals’ are shown in Journey Planners and your Ticket Issuing Systems.

They are valid to or from any of the National Rail stations shown below served by a route or routes permitted for the relevant journey in the Routing Guide. They do not include travel between these stations on London Underground, Elizabeth line, Docklands Light Railway or London Buses services.

(Note: to forbid travel between Abbey Wood and Liverpool Street this should say something like "travel is not permitted on the central section of the Elizabeth line except on the interavailable route between Stratford and Liverpool Street")

That makes it sound as if a ticket from York to London Terminals would not be valid from Kings Cross to Moorgate on the Underground when it is. Or have I misunderstood the statement?

 

[Wallsendmag]

That makes it sound as if a ticket from York to London Terminals would not be valid from Kings Cross to Moorgate on the Underground when it is. Or have I misunderstood the statement?

No, it's valid.

 

[Haywain]

That makes it sound as if a ticket from York to London Terminals would not be valid from Kings Cross to Moorgate on the Underground when it is. Or have I misunderstood the statement?

I think it’s saying that there isn’t validity except where there is a specifically expressed inter-availability.

 

[JaJaWa]

That's a little misleading, Elizabeth Line is toc like any other. As tickets issued at the new stations TVMs make abundantly clear...

No roundel in the background like London Overground tickets? Or do those no longer have that

 

[miklcct]

Has anyone tried to buy a ticket between Abbey Wood / any other stations in the South East and London Terminals? If so, what stations are listed as available in the confirmation email?

 

[Watershed]

Has anyone tried to buy a ticket between Abbey Wood / any other stations in the South East and London Terminals? If so, what stations are listed as available in the confirmation email?

The stations listed as available will be purely dependent on the contents of the London Terminals data feed. Which has long been inaccurate and so, despite professing to clarify matters, only adds to the confusion.

 

[Wolfie]

No roundel in the background like London Overground tickets? Or do those no longer have that

Seems to be mixed on the Overground based on what ticket stock they've loaded. I got a return ticket, one part had a roundel, one didn't.

 

[bakerstreet]

Thought I’d post this in relation to some of the understandable confusion - in this thread, and elsewhere.

Confirmation on the status of the Elizabeth line from TfL

• The strike should not affect the new Elizabeth line, which is not a Tube service. However, services may be busier than usual, so check before you travel

Well, I say confirmation.

Many on here probably already know this.

But it is confirmation not on what TfL believes the Elizabeth line actually is, rather it is confirmation on what TfL is certain it is not.

So fortunately the ambiguity can continue in at least some form.

And will leave the general public maybe a little more or a little less confused than they were before!

From https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-strike#on-this-page-1

 

[alistairlees]

Thought I’d post this in relation to some of the understandable confusion - in this thread, and elsewhere.

Confirmation on the status of the Elizabeth line from TfL



Well, I say confirmation.

Many on here probably already know this.

But it is confirmation not on what TfL believes the Elizabeth line actually is, rather it is confirmation on what TfL is certain it is not.

So fortunately the ambiguity can continue in at least some form.

And will leave the general public maybe a little more or a little less confused than they were before!

From https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-strike#on-this-page-1

I was wondering when soneone would spot that!

 

[Kite159]

Thought I’d post this in relation to some of the understandable confusion - in this thread, and elsewhere.

Confirmation on the status of the Elizabeth line from TfL



Well, I say confirmation.

Many on here probably already know this.

But it is confirmation not on what TfL believes the Elizabeth line actually is, rather it is confirmation on what TfL is certain it is not.

So fortunately the ambiguity can continue in at least some form.

And will leave the general public maybe a little more or a little less confused than they were before!

From https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-strike#on-this-page-1

Although I wonder if some of the stations which are shared with LU will be closed meaning the Liz line trains won't call (i.e. Tottenham Court Road). Similar to Overground trains on the Watford DC line & other locations where the station is run by LU.

 

[MikeWh]

Although I wonder if some of the stations which are shared with LU will be closed meaning the Liz line trains won't call (i.e. Tottenham Court Road). Similar to Overground trains on the Watford DC line & other locations where the station is run by LU.

I think they probably have enough staff on their own to be open. There might be some closed corridors, but that's about it.

 

[hkstudent]

I think they probably have enough staff on their own to be open. There might be some closed corridors, but that's about it.

Yeah, and Elizabeth Line is likely to keep a high priority in keeping it open, as they require minimum extra staff to keep the stations open (as the drivers and customer assistant on the Elizabeth Line side will not be on strike, but only the LU staffs)

 

[matt_world2004]

Yeah, and Elizabeth Line is likely to keep a high priority in keeping it open, as they require minimum extra staff to keep the stations open (as the drivers and customer assistant on the Elizabeth Line side will not be on strike, but only the LU staffs)

Most stations in the core are staffed by LU staff iirc with the exception of Canary wharf , Abbey wood and Woolwich

 

[JaJaWa]

Most stations in the core are staffed by LU staff iirc with the exception of Canary wharf , Abbey wood and Woolwich

Paddington isn’t either, it’s the stations with the “round / curvy” design not the “flat / boxy” design that are.

 

[Bread & cheese]

That's TfL's position and so I would expect problems at the barrier line upon trying to re-enter.

But it does not match the position under the NRCoT, namely that if Crossrail forms part of the shortest route, it is no different to any other line, hence break of journey is permitted on a walkup ticket. Accordingly if you were denied re-entry and were told you had to pay an additional fare, that additional fare would be recoverable from TfL.

The internal national rail website now contains the following entry:

Break of Journey​

Break of journey is not allowed on LU/DLR services, nor on Elizabeth line services between Paddington and Abbey Wood, irrespective of the conditions applying to the National Rail leg of the journey, except at jointly served stations on designated ‘inter-available’ routes.

 

[Watershed]

The internal national rail website now contains the following entry:

Break of Journey​

Break of journey is not allowed on LU/DLR services, nor on Elizabeth line services between Paddington and Abbey Wood, irrespective of the conditions applying to the National Rail leg of the journey, except at jointly served stations on designated ‘inter-available’ routes.

Which of course has simply been made up. Still, at least TfL's message is getting through...

 

[Wolfie]

The internal national rail website now contains the following entry:

Break of Journey​

Break of journey is not allowed on LU/DLR services, nor on Elizabeth line services between Paddington and Abbey Wood, irrespective of the conditions applying to the National Rail leg of the journey, except at jointly served stations on designated ‘inter-available’ routes.

A Court wouldn't care in the slightest about internal industry documents.

 

[swt_passenger]

A Court wouldn't care in the slightest about internal industry documents.

Would they care about the National Rail conditions of travel?

 

[AlterEgo]

The internal national rail website now contains the following entry:

Break of Journey​

Break of journey is not allowed on LU/DLR services, nor on Elizabeth line services between Paddington and Abbey Wood, irrespective of the conditions applying to the National Rail leg of the journey, except at jointly served stations on designated ‘inter-available’ routes.

Completely unenforceable unless they update absolutely every ticket restriction. The Elizabeth Line is a National Rail service subject to the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

 

[Wolfie]

Would they care about the National Rail conditions of travel?

Since they explicitly form part of your contact when you buy a ticket, what do you think?

 

[swt_passenger]

Since they explicitly form part of your contact when you buy a ticket, what do you think?

Well I think they say basically the same thing as the internal website…

 

[Watershed]

Well I think they say basically the same thing as the internal website…

They don't mention any restrictions on break of journey on Elizabeth Line services. Though that would be easy enough to change, if they wanted. I'm sure they'd wave it through with the justification "this simply reflects the practical position"!

 

[miklcct]

They don't mention any restrictions on break of journey on Elizabeth Line services. Though that would be easy enough to change, if they wanted.

The "easiest" way to enforce this is to change the NRCoT to exclude Elizabeth line service and refer it to TfL, making it no longer part of National Rail, like excluding onward travel by ship / etc.

 

[swt_passenger]

They don't mention any restrictions on break of journey on Elizabeth Line services. Though that would be easy enough to change, if they wanted. I'm sure they'd wave it through with the justification "this simply reflects the practical position"!

Yes, it’ll just get rubber stamped if asked for.