Elon Musk - the world's "greatest" spiv?

[brad465]

So some big advertisers suspend advertising and this is Musk's response:

Gary Whitta (@gwhitta) on Threads

Absolutely going down in flames.

www.threads.net

Absolutely going down in flames.


Image of Musk tweet saying "Premium+ also has no ads in your timeline. Many of the largest advertisers are the greatest oppressors of your right to free speech.

 

[JKF]

He really doesn’t understand what free speech is, does he? No advertisers are blocking speech.

 

[JamesT]

Today’s test of Starship went better than the last one. All the engines on the first stage appeared to be working, the second stage started and separated successfully.
The first stage then exploded and they lost telemetry from the second stage which suggests it was also lost. But in the iterative way SoaceX works it counts as a successful launch.

 

[Mogster]

Yes. Just having all the engines work on the booster would have been incremental progress, but with separation also working and Starship reaching space this looks like a big step forward.

The launch with the low sun and the hanging cryo mist was very sci fi movie.

 

[gingerheid]

He really doesn’t understand what free speech is, does he? No advertisers are blocking speech.

Hate speech is saying where his aeroplane is. Free speech is everything except saying there is hate speech on Twitter.

It's interesting to see where it'll all end up for him.

I assume he doesn't have any meaningful capital in the hyperloop game anyway.

Neuralink seems pointless and doomed.

Twitter seems doomed to go down the line of Parler or 8Chan or the Daily Stormer (if he first doesn't accidentally delete it while high), probably quite soon. He may believe that people have a duty to hang around while other people are exercising their right to free (or hate) speech, but if the people concerned don't then he's not the school bully so he can't enforce it!

The Boring Company seems doomed to failure at the first of a) a fire b) free capital runs out c) common sense enters the chat. Both a and b could happen at any time, but cumulative odds increasingly work against him the longer it lives. C will probably happen in conjunction with something else.

Tesla doesn't necessarily seem doomed as an entity, but elements of the dream it (or he) sells seem to be, and therefore his involvement in it probably is. It's still too early to tell if electric cars are actually the future. If they are the future then there's no reason why traditional car makers can't produce, distribute and repair them more efficiently. There's no obvious reason why the market needs all the Arrivals / Munros that have appeared, and there's no obvious reason Tesla shouldn't fall to be one of them. If Tesla isn't one of those, then it's not clear that customers and / or regulators will stand for Tesla gatekeeping the world of the car, in the same way as they are trying to not allow Apple to gatekeep the world of the phone. It's not clear if meaningful self driving will ever work, and if does it seems that it won't be the way he wants it to, and if it is then it seems it won't be anything like soon enough. It's not clear that the Tesla Semi serves any meaningful purpose or meets any of the claims made.

SpaceX appears to have sources of revenue, and seems to be successful, and operates in an industry where what might otherwise be regarded as failure is acceptable. How much of the empire can it carry?

 

[jon0844]

I can't help but feel that Tesla and SpaceX would be far more successful without Elon's micro management. In a way, his obsession with X is perhaps aiding both firms.

However, the stuff Elon allows on X - as well as the stuff he endorses which then emboldens some very bad people - is almost certain to result in people losing their lives as he stirs up hate on a global scale (although thus far, he's mostly interested in the US and recently the UK following his meeting with our PM).

 

[birchesgreen]

Tesla are in trouble, their new products are late, flawed and the hype doesn't match the reality, their existing range have sold well but are now starting to look tired and many other manufacturers are catching them up.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Today’s test of Starship went better than the last one. All the engines on the first stage appeared to be working, the second stage started and separated successfully.
The first stage then exploded and they lost telemetry from the second stage which suggests it was also lost. But in the iterative way SpaceX works it counts as a successful launch.

Moments later some Senator tweeted about this rocket being able to deliver astronauts to the Moon.

Yes - but it might be desirable to get the astronauts there in one piece...

 

[jon0844]

How much has Tesla had to work on this stupid Cybertruck and Semi (the former isn't anything like what it was meant to be, and nor was/is the Semi that apparently keeps breaking down) instead of upgrading the existing models and coming up with the new Roadster?

 

[birchesgreen]

How much has Tesla had to work on this stupid Cybertruck and Semi (the former isn't anything like what it was meant to be, and nor was/is the Semi that apparently keeps breaking down) instead of upgrading the existing models and coming up with the new Roadster?

Ah yes the Roadster, still no sign of it. I think they are still waiting for the laws of physics to be changed.

 

[Busaholic]

Moments later some Senator tweeted about this rocket being able to deliver astronauts to the Moon.

Yes - but it might be desirable to get the astronauts there in one piece...

Almost as bad, fulsome praise at today's 'achievement' from NASA, who one might have thought should be more objective.

Musk is going the way of Bankman-Fried in terms of how he's held in public stock, even if he's fortunate enough to escape lengthy incarceration in the long term.

 

[gingerheid]

Ah yes the Roadster, still no sign of it. I think they are still waiting for the laws of physics to be changed.

And how's the $25,000 dollar car coming along?

When I spoke earlier of Arrival and Munro I thought about Mellor, but in my foolishness thought they were too good a company to go on the list as I thought maybe they might make it; I didn't realise that their parent had already failed!

I think Tesla and all these companies have the same problem; "we could produce an amazing vehicle that will be completely uniquely able* to do magical things".

*If someone else produces a battery in a way that it is not clear will ever necessarily be chemically possible, and if every established vehicle manufacturer somehow fails to notice it or want to take advantage of it.

It's really far too early to say that electric vehicles are necessarily the future, and that's why the fluff for the Tesla 2 still regurgitates the same old stuff about it earning you money as a robotaxi that's already still not happened for earlier models!

 

[JohnMcL7]

How much has Tesla had to work on this stupid Cybertruck and Semi (the former isn't anything like what it was meant to be, and nor was/is the Semi that apparently keeps breaking down) instead of upgrading the existing models and coming up with the new Roadster?

I have a hard time believing they're doing much work on the Cybertruck as there's been few signs of any changes and improvements with it, even recently models seen out in public have large panel gaps (in some cases being taped down) and struggling to mount a kerb. The vehicle appears to have numerous hurdles to be viable for mass production, regulatory issues with its crash structure and making it drive and brake well but beyond that, Musk claimed it was the future vehicle of Tesla but I can't see how. Even if they could mass produce the vehicle I can't see there being much demand for it as the looks are divisive but it doesn't seem that practical a vehicle for its size. Also there's been some articles recently that Ford's predictions for the F150 Lightning (which is already available for sale) have been substantially reduced as the demand they expected hasn't been there.

As much as I dislike Musk and Tesla I do think the Cybertruck is a cool looking design but I don't see how it can be anything more than a concept vehicle so by this point I'd have expected a watered down more conventional design ready for mass production.

 

[Pete_uk]

Yes - but it might be desirable to get the astronauts there in one piece...

It's good PR to get them back alive too

 

[Kite159]

Anybody noticed an increase in promoted/adverted tweets from random blue tickers which basically say their names (think Ed Balls).

Only thing I can think is botfarms engaging with that tweet to get a share of the advertising revenue. Likewise on news stories (BbC/Sky etc) you get a few blue tickers posting meaningless posts (like a smiley face or "I see").

 

[JonasB]

How much has Tesla had to work on this stupid Cybertruck and Semi (the former isn't anything like what it was meant to be, and nor was/is the Semi that apparently keeps breaking down) instead of upgrading the existing models and coming up with the new Roadster?

More than they planned it seems like. Meanwhile, traditional manufacturers are delivering electric lorries. https://www.scania.com/group/en/home/products-and-services/trucks/battery-electric-truck.html#

Meanwhile in Sweden, a strike at Tesla has grown with many other unions joining it. Something that might be a huge problem for Tesla.

 

[birchesgreen]

So... Elon has said in the earnings call that until they clear the Cybertruck backlog (of 1.5 million) then the type will not start making the company money.

Then later they hope to ramp up to making 125k a year... so er... yeah. Hopefully he is wrong with that as it does seem a long time otherwise...

Anyway its apparently going to be released next week.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Elon Musk's X sues Media Matters over antisemitism analysis

The lawsuit says Media Matters "manipulated" data in an attempt to "destroy" the social media site.

www.bbc.co.uk

Id be more concerned by outfits like Media Matters who pull the strings on smear campaigns and drive authoritarian left wing agendas.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Elon Musk's X sues Media Matters over antisemitism analysis

The lawsuit says Media Matters "manipulated" data in an attempt to "destroy" the social media site.

www.bbc.co.uk

Id be more concerned by outfits like Media Matters who pull the strings on smear campaigns and drive authoritarian left wing agendas.

Authoritarian left wing agendas like brands not wanting their ads to appear next to racist, antisemitic or nazi supporting content?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Authoritarian left wing agendas like brands not wanting their ads to appear next to racist, antisemitic or nazi supporting content?

So you didn’t read it.

We can all set up an account click on naughty stuff enough times and the clock will tell the right time twice a day.

 

[jon0844]

This should provide an interesting insight into the whole lawsuit Elon has filed, which clearly won't go anywhere and is just Elon grandstanding to his sycophants.

https://x.com/KathrynTewson/status/1727002283496624169?s=20

https://twitter.com/KathrynTewson
@KathrynTewson

With that in mind, here is my lawsplainer thread on Musk v. Media Matters, et al., using only the ten hundred words people use most often. I am allowing myself an exception in the form of proper nouns because otherwise I would die. You can play along here.

 

[takno]

This should provide an interesting insight into the whole lawsuit Elon has filed, which clearly won't go anywhere and is just Elon grandstanding to his sycophants.

https://x.com/KathrynTewson/status/1727002283496624169?s=20

Could you provide some indication of what the thread says? I'm not going to sign up to read it

 

[VauxhallandI]

This should provide an interesting insight into the whole lawsuit Elon has filed, which clearly won't go anywhere and is just Elon grandstanding to his sycophants.

https://x.com/KathrynTewson/status/1727002283496624169?s=20

What’s the opposite of a sycophant?

 

[gingerheid]

Could you provide some indication of what the thread says? I'm not going to sign up to read it

I think I would summarise it as that X is arguing that because the user can influence ad placement by their browsing habits, it was Media Matters that placed the adverts next to the posts rather than X, and that as a result it was false for Media Matters to say that they "found" the adverts in those locations.

- Questions why action is filed in North Texas, which is where neither X nor Media Matters are based
- X alleges that Media Matters "knowning and maliciously manufactured side-by-side images depicting advertisers' posts on X" [beside hate speech] "and then portrayed these manufactured images if they were what typical X users experience on the platform. [snip] "Media Matters designed these images" [to drive advertisers away and] "destroy X".
- Media Matters created these images by manipulating X's algorithms into displaying them, so they are manufactured, inorganic and extraordinarily rare.
+ One way of achieving this was by looking at [hate speech] accounts that were more than 30 days old, bypassing X's ad filter for new users
+ Another was by following only accounts that were either hate speech or major advertisers
+ Media Matters scrolled and refreshed the pages they were looking at 13-15 times more often than an average X user
+ Media Matters didn't mention that there were also pages that didn't show major advertisers adverts alongside hate speech
- In doing so Media Matters interfered with contracts with major advertisers (the commentary says they have to argue something like this in order for there to be a wrong that they can ask Texan law to put right)
- Media Matters stated that what it said was facts, and these facts included that X placed the adverts and Media Matters found them. These statements were false, and made with intentional malice.

There is definitely a tiny element of truth in what X are arguing. Before covid I bought shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt but didn't like to pay full price. I noticed, by accident, that at that time it was easy to manipulate their FB ads into giving me discounts that weren't available on their website by searching for competitors.

However even in this extreme example, is wasn't me that actually placed the adverts. It was (I assume) Facebook and Charles Tyrwhitt acting together.

 

[JohnMcL7]

There's a good explanation of the problems with the lawsuit here:

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/11/21...this-stupid-but-you-crazy-b&stard-you-did-it/

Edit: The swear filter is catching this, change the ampersand to an 'a' to get the link or it should be on this page:

Techdirt

www.techdirt.com

 

[VauxhallandI]

I think I would summarise it as that X is arguing that because the user can influence ad placement by their browsing habits, it was Media Matters that placed the adverts next to the posts rather than X, and that as a result it was false for Media Matters to say that they "found" the adverts in those locations.

- Questions why action is filed in North Texas, which is where neither X nor Media Matters are based
- X alleges that Media Matters "knowning and maliciously manufactured side-by-side images depicting advertisers' posts on X" [beside hate speech] "and then portrayed these manufactured images if they were what typical X users experience on the platform. [snip] "Media Matters designed these images" [to drive advertisers away and] "destroy X".
- Media Matters created these images by manipulating X's algorithms into displaying them, so they are manufactured, inorganic and extraordinarily rare.
+ One way of achieving this was by looking at [hate speech] accounts that were more than 30 days old, bypassing X's ad filter for new users
+ Another was by following only accounts that were either hate speech or major advertisers
+ Media Matters scrolled and refreshed the pages they were looking at 13-15 times more often than an average X user
+ Media Matters didn't mention that there were also pages that didn't show major advertisers adverts alongside hate speech
- In doing so Media Matters interfered with contracts with major advertisers (the commentary says they have to argue something like this in order for there to be a wrong that they can ask Texan law to put right)
- Media Matters stated that that what said was facts, and these facts included that X placed the adverts and Media Matters found them. These statements were false, and made with intentional malice.

There is definitely a tiny element of truth in what X are arguing. Before covid I bought shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt but didn't like to pay full price. I noticed, by accident, that at that time it was easy to manipulate their FB ads into giving me discounts that weren't available on their website by searching for competitors.

However even in this extreme example, is wasn't me that actually placed the adverts. It was (I assume) Facebook and Charles Tyrwhitt acting together.

I’d wager its more than a ting element.

Thanks for the in depth summary, nice to see someone looking beyond a headline.

 

[gingerheid]

By tiny I was meaning more than "homeopathic", but far less than "relevant"!

It seems to me that what Media Matters did is equivalent to walking through a puddle slowly to check if wellies were watertight, without mentioning that the wellies didn't let water in when it wasn't wet.

 

[brad465]

Just when you think he can't go any more insane:

Elon Musk launches profane attack on X advertisers

The billionaire accuses firms of trying to blackmail him with ad dollars, claiming they will kill X.

www.bbc.co.uk

In a profanity-laced outburst, Elon Musk has slammed advertisers that have left X, warning they will kill the social media platform.
At an event in New York, he accused companies that have joined an ad boycott of the site formerly known as Twitter of trying to blackmail him.
"Go [expletive] yourself," the billionaire said in an interview.
Some firms have paused advertising on X amid concerns over antisemitism, including a post from Mr Musk himself.
The Tesla and SpaceX boss apologised on Wednesday for that post, saying it might be the "dumbest" thing he has ever shared online.
But it was his response to a question about an advertising boycott by companies including Disney, Apple and Comcast that caused a stir at the gathering of leaders from the worlds of business, politics and culture.
"I don't want them to advertise," Mr Musk said at the New York Times' DealBook Summit.
"If someone is going to blackmail me with advertising or money go [expletive] yourself.

"Go. [Expletive]. Yourself. Is that clear? Hey Bob, if you're in the audience, that's how I feel."
He was apparently referring to Disney chief executive Bob Iger, who spoke at the summit earlier in the day.
In the room with Mr Musk was Linda Yaccarino, X's chief executive, who has been charged with trying to bring back advertisers to the platform.
Mr Musk also said that advertisers could kill X.
"What this advertising boycott is going to do is it's going to kill the company," he said.
"The whole world will know those advertisers killed the company, and we will document it in great detail," he added.
Ms Yaccarino has since reposted what she called his "candid interview", adding her perspective on advertising that "X is standing at a unique and amazing intersection of Free Speech and Main Street — and the X community is powerful and is here to welcome you".
Mr Musk has been on a visit to Israel after he last month appeared to personally back an antisemitic conspiracy theory.
"I'm sorry for that tweet... it might be literally the worst and dumbest post that I've ever done," he said on Wednesday.
The boycott isn't just to do with that post, though.
Many advertisers had already decided to spend their dollars elsewhere.
In an interview with the BBC in April, Mr Musk said "almost all of them [advertisers] have either come back or they're going to come back".
Three months later he acknowledged in a post on X that ad revenue had fallen by 50%.
That was before a report by liberal pressure group Media Matters, which claimed to have found evidence that some adverts had been placed next to Nazi content.

 

[jon0844]

Freedom of speech really doesn't translate to companies must support you through advertising. Free country and all that.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Disney and Apple, such lovely people! Good riddance to them.