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Ember: Electric coach service

overthewater

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16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,401
I think it must be noted that Ember is growing the market, and has picked up a new customer base. Ive do spot Flix and Citylink and they can still be busy, I'm all for this if we can get more cars off the roads.
 
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route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
11,255
The things that keeps me with Ember over Citylink are that the site is way easier to use. Though be interesting to see how they manage as the scale up.
I can easily book at short notice without issue and extra costs, whereas with Citylink short notice singles can be expensive and it doesn't appear to be easy to move the return journey should it be needed if you are about to miss the coach, whereas that's easy to do with Ember.
Yes, unless the ember service is sold out its the same price. Dundee is a good price compared to the train. Citylink services sell out too and have lost that walk up nature.
 

peterblue

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2018
Messages
528
Location
Lancashire
I plan on riding the new Fort William route next Friday.

It doesn't look particularly busy at the moment, however, with 1-2 seats sold on most departures next week except for a Wednesday PM journey departing Fort William with about 10 passengers.

I think the route has potential though, especially as we begin to approach the peak season.

My main concern is whether Ember have managed to recruit enough drivers to actually run this service, as I would be stranded should the coach not turn up.

I'm also surprised by the relative lack of stops e.g. there's no stop in Callander or in Crianlarich.
 
Last edited:

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,380
I think it must be noted that Ember is growing the market, and has picked up a new customer base. Ive do spot Flix and Citylink and they can still be busy, I'm all for this if we can get more cars off the roads.
I would suggest that the market has grown because of the generosity of the ScoGov bus pass, now extended to under 22s. When introduced it included coaches (which I define as limited stop and generally booked in advance) because throughout the West Highlands these services also provided the only bus service ( stops almost anywhere on request and no pre-booking). Quite reasonable but this is where the law of unintended consequences comes in. Bus pass reimbursements are now being used to support the growth of Intercity coach services.

The under 22s and 60+ population are the major market for public transport because they are less likely to have cars or at least drive long distances and these Intercity operators are exploiting the rules to provide services which are purely coaches with no bus element. I would guess that outwith the tourist season the vast majority of passengers are getting their fare paid by the ScoGov.

At the same time the ScoGov is heavily subsidising train services operating along the same routes*. Given the state of their finances, it makes no sense. Bus passes should only be valid on routes which provide a bus service for a substantial part of their journey.
But given that there's an election next year, I don't expect this nettle to be grasped.

* I know that the coaches and the train take a different routes between Dundee and Aberdeen buf since most coaches run nonstop, it makes no difference.
 

Porty

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
150
Location
Edinburgh
I would suggest that the market has grown because of the generosity of the ScoGov bus pass, now extended to under 22s. When introduced it included coaches (which I define as limited stop and generally booked in advance) because throughout the West Highlands these services also provided the only bus service ( stops almost anywhere on request and no pre-booking). Quite reasonable but this is where the law of unintended consequences comes in. Bus pass reimbursements are now being used to support the growth of Intercity coach services.

The under 22s and 60+ population are the major market for public transport because they are less likely to have cars or at least drive long distances and these Intercity operators are exploiting the rules to provide services which are purely coaches with no bus element. I would guess that outwith the tourist season the vast majority of passengers are getting their fare paid by the ScoGov.

At the same time the ScoGov is heavily subsidising train services operating along the same routes*. Given the state of their finances, it makes no sense. Bus passes should only be valid on routes which provide a bus service for a substantial part of their journey.
But given that there's an election next year, I don't expect this nettle to be grasped.

* I know that the coaches and the train take a different routes between Dundee and Aberdeen buf since most coaches run nonstop, it makes no difference.
As I understand it a "bus" element will be introduced very soon with shorter hops available just as on the Dundee to Edinburgh corridor. Awaiting formal registration?
 

PG

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Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
3,232
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
As I understand it a "bus" element will be introduced very soon with shorter hops available just as on the Dundee to Edinburgh corridor. Awaiting formal registration?
This could be very significant if it were to limit concession card holders purely to services that permit journeys of 15 miles or less. Perhaps worth of discussion in a new thread?
 

Porty

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
150
Location
Edinburgh
This could be very significant if it were to limit concession card holders purely to services that permit journeys of 15 miles or less. Perhaps worth of discussion in a new thread?
Ember are accepting concession cards from the start of service on Wednesday.
 

Numpt33

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2023
Messages
45
Location
Scotland
How do you get a fuel rebate with an electric vehicle?
Network Support Grand and BSOG in Scotland have been paid per service kilometres for decades now. It has no tie to fuel consumption at all.

It hasn’t been Fuel Duty Rebate since 2002. Adding the stops such as Walnut Grove will allow the operator to claim BSOG (Bus Service Operators Grant), which is paid per live kilometre. The electric buses will qualify for an enhanced rate. Full details of the (Scottish) scheme can be found here. https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/44451/bsog-guidance-march-2019.pdf
Sorry but BSOG was replaced with "Network Support Grant" https://www.transport.gov.scot/NSGGuidance
 

Buzby

Member
Joined
14 Apr 2023
Messages
1,098
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
This could be very significant if it were to limit concession card holders purely to services that permit journeys of 15 miles or less. Perhaps worth of discussion in a new thread?
It’ll certainly be a heated one - the limitations are clearly specified (no special routes, excursions or night services) indeed the AIR service which excluded concession when it started changed to accept them after 12 months. Since Ember have been up front as to why they’ve been manipulated to raise their costs, they’re not likely to want to open this can of worms.
 

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