py_megapixel
Established Member
Surely the corridor width is irrelevant if the only thing they are to connect to in the future is 170s, which don't have gangway connections on the front?
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EMR Class 170 updates
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WillPS
Established Member
No; this is to allow passengers to travel to and from the 'split' unit through to the 2 car unit. The mid-unit corridor on 158s is a different width to the corridor which goes through the cab (which was kept the same width as other Sprinters to allow corridor compatibility).
I believe the adaptor plates were originally manufactured to allow the 158s to be split and operated with half a 156 when there was some sort of adhesion issue early on. (156s have the same corridor width throughout).
fgwrich
Established Member
Interestingly, this makes this the second time this batch has gone on a sublease arrangement as GTR originally took on the leases of 416 - 424, then subleased them back to ScotRail until they could be made available for use in the South. In the end, GTR only took 421-424 and gave up the leases of 416-420 when they decided not to proceed with further 171/2 & 171/4s, and allowed the 4 to be snapped up by EMR.
5 not 4 - Southern were only able to immediately receive 4 of the 9, with the remaining 5 (416-420) moving to EMR following the sublease cancellation.
Logos or full EMR livery?
CR165022
Member
just logos
Chiltern006
Member
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 658
Amazing, thanks!
I asked my MP about this rumoured move of units from Southern to East Midlands and she in turn asked Southern. Their answer was
“We are still in negotiation with the Department for Transport and East Midlands Railway regarding the transfer of up to four Class 171 trains from Southern to East Midlands Railway. We are continuing to monitor our passenger numbers on the Uckfield Line and will make changes to our fleet in accordance to this.”
Which implies they are either being economical with the truth or it is not as clear cut as it might seem, or Southern havent been told yet!
“We are still in negotiation with the Department for Transport and East Midlands Railway regarding the transfer of up to four Class 171 trains from Southern to East Midlands Railway. We are continuing to monitor our passenger numbers on the Uckfield Line and will make changes to our fleet in accordance to this.”
Which implies they are either being economical with the truth or it is not as clear cut as it might seem, or Southern havent been told yet!
The deal is already done, apparently - the units are being subleased from EMR to GTR at present.
Exactly but that’s not what the reply from Southern says!
Confirmed in Modern Railways the 4 171/2s and /4s are coming over from Southern to EMR.
Well as I say the response from Southern doesn’t seem that clear cut, and it was written yesterday so they would have had time to read Modern Railways!
grumpyoldman01
Member
The Modern Railways article doesn't show it's author, but the wording implies that he/she (or somebody else at Modern Railways) had discussed this transfer with GTR as it states:
"GTR said it could not provide further information about how it was able to release these four sets"
This to me implies that the actual transfer of them to EMR is happening. The wording quoted by Chrisgr31 can be interpreted in many ways, even as an honest summary of the present position; for example, it squares with Modern Railways' statement that it is EXPECTED that they will transfer during the autumn. After all, if the actual date of transfer has yet to be agreed, GTR would be "in negotiation with the Department of Transport and East Midlands Railways regarding the transfer of up to four Class 171 trains from Southern to East Midlands Railway" wouldn't they?
The article does say that the re-forming of some of the retained GTR fleet to 3-car sets is speculation as the "operator would not confirm this"
"GTR said it could not provide further information about how it was able to release these four sets"
This to me implies that the actual transfer of them to EMR is happening. The wording quoted by Chrisgr31 can be interpreted in many ways, even as an honest summary of the present position; for example, it squares with Modern Railways' statement that it is EXPECTED that they will transfer during the autumn. After all, if the actual date of transfer has yet to be agreed, GTR would be "in negotiation with the Department of Transport and East Midlands Railways regarding the transfer of up to four Class 171 trains from Southern to East Midlands Railway" wouldn't they?
The article does say that the re-forming of some of the retained GTR fleet to 3-car sets is speculation as the "operator would not confirm this"
WillPS
Established Member
Reread it. They're not denying the Class 171 release is already agreed and happening, what they're saying is they're still in negotiation regarding the transfer - it's a cagey bit of wording because it suggests the 171s are still in play but if you imagine it as a game of chess, and one player describes themselves as 'negotiating regarding the transfer of the trasfer of up to 4 pieces to the other player' - that could mean they are trying to protect those pieces or they're trying to restrategise accepting those individual pieces are gone.
As echoed by many above, GTR more or less confirmed in the article they’re releasing the sets, they’re just not providing an answer as to why or how. Moreover, the sets are now subleased to GTR from EMR, which very much shows they are aware of the transfer…
fgwrich
Established Member
Given the way that it is worded, ie very carefully, I would perhaps suggest that it’s been written to avoid another TPE to Chiltern Class 170 scenario. At least to the Media / Public and potentially riled up MPs? The DfT are obviously aware of the move and have cleared it, so they can’t play the blind card there.
Liam L
Member
Any ideas?
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 593Q 1218 Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs | 28/05/2022
Real-time train running information for 593Q 1218 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
172s/170s used the wheel lathe there a couple of years back, could be that? Otherwise only other thing I can think of is one of the 170s being releasedAny ideas?
Realtime Trains | 593Q 1218 Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs | 28/05/2022
Real-time train running information for 593Q 1218 departure from Tyseley L.M.D. to Etches Park Sdgs on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Liam L
Member
Tyseley have there own wheel lathe though iirc
I think there was a problem with theirs which is why they went to Etches - pretty sure there’s something about it up thread.
Realtime Trains | 2W13 1225 Nottingham to Worksop | 27/05/2022
Real-time train running information for 2W13 1225 departure from Nottingham to Worksop on 27/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
I take it this is the working? Departed quite late and arrived from Etches just before, so I can imagine it’s covered for a failed unit
QSK19
Member
I think it could be more a case of if the DfT authorises a good refresh - I always take their promises with a pinch of salt until I actually see them.Tables have been taken out. I assume they were removed by staff, but apparently according to several other forumers it is due to continuous vandalism and damage by local yobs.
When all the fleet get a good refresh by EMR, it won’t be a second too soon.
EDIT: With all the talk of the Turbostars, I genuinely believed this was the 170 thread! Here is the link to that, for anyone who wants to continue the discussion. It might be better to refrain from discussing them on this Desiro thread to avoid mass confusion
EMR Class 170 updates
It feels like this gets mooted every couple of years by a 158 operator, EMT might have been one in the past. It always tends to get stopped in its tracks because of the lack of adaptor plates to compensate for the different corridor width - I seem to recall there being a relatively small number...www.railforums.co.uk
Mind you, missing tables and vandalism is a different matter - would be a complete dereliction of duties and decency if the DfT didn’t authorise repairs and replacement tables!
NB: the quotation I’m referring to has been taken from the Class 360 thread in order to encourage 170 discussion to return to its correct place.
170638 is now show in on Real time trains allocations (with a purple 170 image). Looks like it is staying the night at Boston.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 2S31 1946 Nottingham to Boston | 28/05/2022
Real-time train running information for 2S31 1946 departure from Nottingham to Boston on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
It is indeed, seen it in arriving in the sidings next to Boston station about half hour ago170638 is now show in on Real time trains allocations (with a purple 170 image). Looks like it is staying the night at Boston.
Realtime Trains | 2S31 1946 Nottingham to Boston | 28/05/2022
Real-time train running information for 2S31 1946 departure from Nottingham to Boston on 28/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Prestige15
On Moderation
Its also worth mentioning also from Modern Railways that EMR is concidering on retaining the 158's and reform some of them to 3 cars to make 5/6 cars, I'm guessing it'll be for the Liverpool-Nottingham service as has been a few mentions before that there is not enough 170's to cover all service on that route.
Yes, the 158s are staying with EMR and are due a full refurb IIRC - I just hope that EMR pool the 158s with the 170s so we do get to see both on the Liverpool - Nottingham route, as the extra capacity and faster boarding the 170s have over the 158s will be very much appreciated there.