EMR Class 170 updates

[Bevan Price]

170.201 (on its own) was on 10:51 Liverpool / Norwich today (29 February)

 

[LowLevel]

I saw it this morning still white. I believe 207/208 are also white

I'm not sure if this is mentioned but on 170419 I noticed that the former first class seats have been reupholstered using the same purple fabric as the other (standard class) seats. It may be the same on the other ex Scotrail units

Yes, the worst seats have been recovered on the 170/4 including the first class compartments.

 

[childwallblues]

1R52 0635 Nottingham-Liverpool Lime Street is today 170206+170417.

 

[LowLevel]

Some information finally available on refurb spec - new Fisa seats in the 170/5s which makes up about half the fleet, repaired, repadded and recovered seats in the /2s and /4s, 5G WiFi, new carpets, refreshes of pretty much everything else, more luggage stacks, new PIS, CCTV and forward facing CCTV fitting and various other background improvements.

Not a complete rebuild, but not too bad either.

158s will get seat covers and foams, new table tops, USB sockets where not already fitted, some repainting of panels etc and an upgrade to the PIS to work from Darwin with the expectation that the fleet will be life expired in the early 2030s.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Some information finally available on refurb spec - new Fisa seats in the 170/5s which makes up about half the fleet, repaired, repadded and recovered seats in the /2s and /4s, 5G WiFi, new carpets, refreshes of pretty much everything else, more luggage stacks, new PIS, CCTV and forward facing CCTV fitting and various other background improvements.

Not a complete rebuild, but not too bad either.

158s will get seat covers and foams, new table tops, USB sockets where not already fitted, some repainting of panels etc and an upgrade to the PIS to work from Darwin with the expectation that the fleet will be life expired in the early 2030s.

158s are good - I hope they'll go another 15-20 years yet.

 

[AJDesiro]

158s are good - I hope they'll go another 15-20 years yet.

They're 33-35 years old, realistically they'll probably get to 40, maybe 45 before the majority of examples are taken out of service.

 

[STINT47]

The 158s need new carpets. If they do these along with new seat foam and covers then they should last.

 

[Jamie153333]

Great news and thanks for the update @LowLevel. Been a long time coming as some of the 170/5s are in terrible condition. Is there any indication as to when the 1st unit will go off for refurbishment and the timescales involved to complete the fleet?

 

[Trainman40083]

Some information finally available on refurb spec - new Fisa seats in the 170/5s which makes up about half the fleet, repaired, repadded and recovered seats in the /2s and /4s, 5G WiFi, new carpets, refreshes of pretty much everything else, more luggage stacks, new PIS, CCTV and forward facing CCTV fitting and various other background improvements.

Not a complete rebuild, but not too bad either.

158s will get seat covers and foams, new table tops, USB sockets where not already fitted, some repainting of panels etc and an upgrade to the PIS to work from Darwin with the expectation that the fleet will be life expired in the early 2030s.

You might wonder if new seats in 170s will be thinner, thereby giving more seats.

 

[Wolfie]

Some information finally available on refurb spec - new Fisa seats in the 170/5s which makes up about half the fleet, repaired, repadded and recovered seats in the /2s and /4s, 5G WiFi, new carpets, refreshes of pretty much everything else, more luggage stacks, new PIS, CCTV and forward facing CCTV fitting and various other background improvements.

Not a complete rebuild, but not too bad either.

158s will get seat covers and foams, new table tops, USB sockets where not already fitted, some repainting of panels etc and an upgrade to the PIS to work from Darwin with the expectation that the fleet will be life expired in the early 2030s.

Sounds good. Any idea why the difference in seat application between the 170 sub-classes?

 

[Halish Railway]

Sounds good. Any idea why the difference in seat application between the 170 sub-classes?

The Class 170/5s are fitted with the dreadful Lazzerini seats as ordered by Central Trains and Midland Mainline, whereas the other subclasses have the much more well designed Chapman seats as ordered by Southern and Scotrail.

The aesthetics and comfort of the Chapman and modified Fisa Lean seats are pretty similar so will provide a pretty similar experience.

 

[Class172]

The Class 170/5s are fitted with the dreadful Lazzerini seats as ordered by Central Trains and Midland Mainline, whereas the other subclasses have the much more well designed Chapman seats as ordered by Southern and Scotrail.

As ever that is your subjective opinion on those particular seats, I personally find them some of the most comfortable on the network but I wouldn't espouse them to be qualitatively the best. As far as I'd be concerned is that seat-window alignment is retained as it is currently excellent on the 170/5s.

 

[Trainman40083]

As ever that is your subjective opinion on those particular seats, I personally find them some of the most comfortable on the network but I wouldn't espouse them to be qualitatively the best. As far as I'd be concerned is that seat-window alignment is retained as it is currently excellent on the 170/5s.

I certainly like the 170 seats.

 

[Wolfie]

The Class 170/5s are fitted with the dreadful Lazzerini seats as ordered by Central Trains and Midland Mainline, whereas the other subclasses have the much more well designed Chapman seats as ordered by Southern and Scotrail.

The aesthetics and comfort of the Chapman and modified Fisa Lean seats are pretty similar so will provide a pretty similar experience.

Ah, ok, TY. I have to say though that l used the 170s in the Central Trains, London Midland and West Midlands Trains eras and never had issues with the seats (unlike on many other trains). I guess that shows how subjective the whole thing is.

 

[AJDesiro]

Ah, ok, TY. I have to say though that l used the 170s in the Central Trains, London Midland and West Midlands Trains eras and never had issues with the seats (unlike on many other trains). I guess that shows how subjective the whole thing is.

They're like armchairs, definitely some of the best seats post-privatization, well-shaped with tonnes of padding. They did get a little bit worse for wear by the end of their tenure in the West Midlands though, presumably, this seat replacement reflects that.

The FISA LEAN isn't too bad, indeed the bases will wear in and provide decent levels of comfort, and the EMR variant may be the best one yet (I've only tried the 196 and 745/755 variants) at least, it should be, given all of the hype EMR have made about it.

One thing I must say about new train seats from the last few years is that they're much cleaner, with fold-down tables/armrests having much less space for dirt to accumulate. Tray tables on the LEAN are brilliant for this reason.

 

[Wolfie]

They're like armchairs, definitely some of the best seats post-privatization, well-shaped with tonnes of padding. They did get a little bit worse for wear by the end of their tenure in the West Midlands though, presumably, this seat replacement reflects that.

The FISA LEAN isn't too bad, indeed the bases will wear in and provide decent levels of comfort, and the EMR variant may be the best one yet (I've only tried the 196 and 745/755 variants) at least, it should be, given all of the hype EMR have made about it.

One thing I must say about new train seats from the last few years is that they're much cleaner, with fold-down tables/armrests having much less space for dirt to accumulate. Tray tables on the LEAN are brilliant for this reason.

Your last para is very true. I had similar thoughts when sampling the seats in 196s and refurbished 350/1s yesterday....

 

[43102EMR]

Sounds good. Any idea why the difference in seat application between the 170 sub-classes?

Only thing I can think of is the different leasing companies (at least in the case of the /4s) - not sure why the same seats aren’t being used for the /2s

 

[QSK19]

Only thing I can think of is the different leasing companies (at least in the case of the /4s) - not sure why the same seats aren’t being used for the /2s

Could it be because the /2s were refurbished only a few years ago hence no need to give them a full makeover? I have it in my head that they were refurbed in 2019 when with GA (but I stand to be corrected!).

 

[tel]

Any knowledge if the EMR 158s are to be put into the purple livery same as the 170s? Thanks

Tel

 

[Trainman40083]

Any knowledge if the EMR 158s are to be put into the purple livery same as the 170s? Thanks

Tel

I the original idea was that all the 158s would be replaced with Liverpool to Norwich worked by other operators. And that never happened. We have 158773/774 in interim livery. Not sure any more are planned.

 

[Ethan1852]

Any knowledge if the EMR 158s are to be put into the purple livery same as the 170s? Thanks

Tel

I the original idea was that all the 158s would be replaced with Liverpool to Norwich worked by other operators. And that never happened. We have 158773/774 in interim livery. Not sure any more are planned.

Somewhere it was mentioned they are to be repainted when they go for refurbishment.

 

[Killingworth]

It's good to see 170201 and 170202 wee teamed together on 1R52 0635 Nottingham to Liverpool Lime Street this morning.

Unfortunately they started 22 minutes late and were diverted away from Sheffield and Dore round the Dore chord. Users from Hazel Grove will have had plenty of space on an on time train from there until Liverpool.

Fortunately TPEs 8.08 from Sheffield is 6 car today and on time.

 

[CR165022]

170208 is out today, still in GA livery but with the lower valance part now painted in EMR purple for some reason.

 

[170UTD]

170207 seems to be taking a while. Strange that 208 would come over after it but be in service first

 

[43102EMR]

170208 is out today, still in GA livery but with the lower valance part now painted in EMR purple for some reason.

Probably to prepare for vinyl application - everything else seems to have been done bar that. Strange how the 170/2s are the only ones not to be repainted, does anyone know why?

 

[43096]

Strange how the 170/2s are the only ones not to be repainted, does anyone know why?

Presumably they are not due repaint.

 

[Anonymous10]

Probably to prepare for vinyl application - everything else seems to have been done bar that. Strange how the 170/2s are the only ones not to be repainted, does anyone know why?

If ex TFW and GA I believe they received a full refurb in 2019 , may be the paint is still under warranty.

 

[43102EMR]

If ex TFW and GA I believe they received a full refurb in 2019 , may be the paint is still under warranty.

I thought that was 2016/17? Anyway, yes I guess that could most likely be the case regardless.

 

[170UTD]

This may have been asked up thread, but is there any update on 170421 (171201) coming from GTR?

 

[MCR247]

Yes I believe the update is that it is staying at GTR as a 171