EMR mass cancellations on Liverpool-Norwich, 19/04/25

[LowLevel]

My understanding is that this isn’t wholly accurate for drivers. Drivers knowledge is link based. Guards do sign pretty much everything.

Correct, drivers have link based route knowledge though there is a spare link that progressively come to sign everywhere though that does take years.

Diversionary route knowledge is very patchy amongst drivers and almost universal amongst guards.

 

[43096]

Correct, drivers have link based route knowledge though there is a spare link that progressively come to sign everywhere though that does take years.

Diversionary route knowledge is very patchy amongst drivers and almost universal amongst guards.

I thought some of the early morning/late evening workings (incl the ECS) on the Liverpool route were booked via diversionary routes specifically to maintain competence?

 

[LowLevel]

I thought some of the early morning/late evening workings (incl the ECS) on the Liverpool route were booked via diversionary routes specifically to maintain competence?

They are - there is a not particularly large pool of drivers on them regularly, often from the spare link.

Getting new drivers up to speed with diversions has been patchy back to Stagecoach days. The logistics of learning and then passing them as competent on the route are tricky though some effort has been made of late. COVID period in particular was not good for "non essential" route learning.

Conversely guards have to learn all diversions certainly at Nottingham before they're allowed to pass as competent.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They are - there is a not particularly large pool of drivers on them regularly, often from the spare link.

Getting new drivers up to speed with diversions has been patchy back to Stagecoach days. The logistics of learning and then passing them as competent on the route are tricky though some effort has been made of late. COVID period in particular was not good for "non essential" route learning.

Conversely guards have to learn all diversions certainly at Nottingham before they're allowed to pass as competent.

Given that situation how on earth do EMR get to the day before and realise majority of train crew don't have the route knowledge and have to can off over half the service. Mr Booths promoting how good private companies are running train service has rather fallen flat here and no sign of any apologies from EMR.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Clearly EMR will have to increase their drivers' route knowledge before the main Stockport blockade to replace the Greek Street bridge (2nd to 22nd August).

 

[SirAlf]

Today’s EMR fun and games. Their web site says “Liverpool – Nottingham/Norwich Minor disruption”

They then proceed to list 14 changes to services, though admittedly 5 of then relate to additional stops “because a train was cancelled” (I'm guessing one of theirs but they don't say so). So 9 trains cancelled for at least part of the journey. If they class that as minor disruption I hate to think what they class as major

 

[Sleepy]

Given that situation how on earth do EMR get to the day before and realise majority of train crew don't have the route knowledge and have to can off over half the service. Mr Booths promoting how good private companies are running train service has rather fallen flat here and no sign of any apologies from EMR.

The lack of ASLEF rest day working is probably a convenient excuse to pass on all EMR cancellations blame in direction of drivers & or the DfT ?

 

[gingerheid]

EMR from Norwich Thursday morning had multiple cancellations too.

All week has been pretty grim, really.

 

[tram21]

Clearly EMR will have to increase their drivers' route knowledge before the main Stockport blockade to replace the Greek Street bridge (2nd to 22nd August).

Looking on RTT they aren't actually going that way at all during the block, it's showing until the 15th and they are only running Sheffield to Norwich, with replacement buses from Chesterfield to Manchester Piccadilly via Stockport. Hopefully learnt their lesson from this, but that's not great!...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The lack of ASLEF rest day working is probably a convenient excuse to pass on all EMR cancellations blame in direction of drivers & or the DfT ?

Irrespective of the underlying reasons this was a known fact so they should have responded accordingly however unpalatable the impact was on the service they could have published it beforehand and potentially strengthened what was left running so at least passengers knew what the options were.

 

[duffield]

Today’s EMR fun and games. Their web site says “Liverpool – Nottingham/Norwich Minor disruption”

They then proceed to list 14 changes to services, though admittedly 5 of then relate to additional stops “because a train was cancelled” (I'm guessing one of theirs but they don't say so). So 9 trains cancelled for at least part of the journey. If they class that as minor disruption I hate to think what they class as major

I regularly look at the service disruptions information on the EMR website and their categorisation of "major" and "minor" disruption is frequently laughably inappropriate.

 

[High Dyke]

Clearly EMR will have to increase their drivers' route knowledge before the main Stockport blockade to replace the Greek Street bridge (2nd to 22nd August).

Don't hold yer breath there... Management have made decisions to allow route knowledge to lapse. For example, Lincoln traincrew no longer sign for the Skegness line. This precludes diversion of Lincoln - Nottingham services via Sleaford. So, these things aren't as cut and dried as some may think.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Don't hold yer breath there... Management have made decisions to allow route knowledge to lapse. For example, Lincoln traincrew no longer sign for the Skegness line. This precludes diversion of Lincoln - Nottingham services via Sleaford. So, these things aren't as cut and dried as some may think.

Lack of diversionary route knowledge is a poor decision but far worse is to then not understand the impact its going to have on the planned service until the day before. Thats just unacceptable and somebody needs to be held to account for it.