EMR refusing Scottish money

[Haywain]

In the UK, I would therefore expect all note-accepting TVMs to accept all UK banknotes.

I don't believe any TVMs accept £50 notes, and I would be very surprised if any accept notes issued by Northern Ireland banks.

 

[kkong]

I don't believe any TVMs accept £50 notes, and I would be very surprised if any accept notes issued by Northern Ireland banks.

OK. How about "all UK banknotes up to and including £20"?

There are also £100 notes in Scotland, albeit rarely seen outside of banks, casinos, cash-in-hand tradesmen etc.

 

[Wallsendmag]

TVMs and other payment terminals (such as supermarket self-checkouts) have sophisticated banknote readers which can detect whether banknotes are genuine or not.

Such readers should - if they are properly maintained - be regularly updated with the "signatures" of all valid banknotes.

It takes no extra effort on behalf of the maintainers to include the various Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes in the list.

In the UK, I would therefore expect all note-accepting TVMs to accept all UK banknotes.

The major supermarkets certainly seem to manage to do this.

Lol you have a sense of humor there.

I don't believe any TVMs accept £50 notes, and I would be very surprised if any accept notes issued by Northern Ireland banks.

Or the Scottish £100

 

[kkong]

Lol you have a sense of humor there.

Please clarify.

Do you think I am expecting too much for the rail industry to configure and maintain its TVMs correctly?

Or something else?

 

[43066]

You referring to Scottish bank notes used by millions of people in the UK as an 'obscure currency' tells us all we need to know.

Used by millions, but rarely encountered outside Scotland. I’ve not handled more than half a dozen in my lifetime. Why you’re bashing London on a thread about Scottish currency acceptance in Northern England is anyone’s guess, but I’d suggest it’s off topic!

then the tendency of some posters to defend anything and everything done by the rail industry

Not what I’m doing. I’ve just pointed out why this is a non issue. In this case people can pay using many methods of payment, smartphones, cards and cash including sterling bank notes, just not Scottish ones! I’m confident 99% of people would agree.

Are we sure this isn't something just printed locally by someone who doesn't like Scottish notes? Is it displayed at all EMR stations ?

Not sure if it’s elsewhere. However there are direct trains to Scotland from Sheffield (unlike most of EMR’s locations), which might explain it. It seems odd to imagine that anyone would care enough, or risk getting into hot water with their employer, by printing such a notice if they hadn’t been instructed to!

I assume so, until and unless somebody reports encountering similar signs or having Scottish banknotes rejected elsewhere.

Why not just accept the reason is the one given on the notice? Why assume it’s some sort of conspiracy against Scottish notes? I suspect there’s no mileage in discussing further.

I have only ever held one £50 note in my life. Why are such an issue though? There are bigger denominations of Euros. Cash machines issue 100 Euro notes.

Same here, even in the days when I used cash. I’m not sure why those notes in particular - possibly because they’re so rare that it’s thought forgeries will be harder to spot?

I don't believe any TVMs accept £50 notes, and I would be very surprised if any accept notes issued by Northern Ireland banks.

So there we have it. The railway doesn’t accept some English currency either!

 

[Haywain]

It seems odd to imagine that anyone would care enough, or risk getting into hot water with their employer, by printing such a notice if they hadn’t been instructed to!

Such blissful innocence.

The railway doesn’t accept some English currency either!

The railway does, it's the TVMs that don't (in the case of the Flowbird TVMs that LNER have, and presumably those of Northern and Chiltern, because they are too big for the note slot).

 

[Essan]

It used to be a not entirely uncommon occurrence for shops in England to refuse Bank of England £20 notes due to forgeries being in circulation. Perfectly legal. And even today some may refuse a £50.

As for switching to all cashless - that's what the banks want so they can hold on to our money longer. You pay me cash today, I can use that cash to immediately pay someone else. You pay me by card and whilst it's immediately removed from your bank account, it takes 3 working days to reach mine.

 

[Bikeman78]

I've never had Scottish notes from HSBC.

My understanding is that the Scottish banks only issue their own notes. Other cash machines, e.g. at a supermarket, tend to issue English notes.

 

[kkong]

My understanding is that the Scottish banks only issue their own notes. Other cash machines, e.g. at a supermarket, tend to issue English notes.

Your understanding is incorrect.

I withdrew cash from a Sainsbury's Bank ATM in Aberdeen last week and was issued with a mixture of Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank £20 notes.

This is entirely normal in Scotland.

 

[Haywain]

As for switching to all cashless - that's what the banks want so they can hold on to our money longer.

And businesses would prefer you not to use cash as it removes security risks and handling charges.

You pay me by card and whilst it's immediately removed from your bank account, it takes 3 working days to reach mine.

You need a better bank account - I can transfer money between banks and it is available to spend immediately.

 

[Essan]

You need a better bank account - I can transfer money between banks and it is available to spend immediately.

Bank transfers yes - and I'd be happy to see that become a more common method of payment.

But not if you pay me by debit or credit card. Which also incur a bank charge!

 

[Bikeman78]

Your understanding is incorrect.

I withdrew cash from a Sainsbury's Bank ATM in Aberdeen last week and was issued with a mixture of Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank £20 notes.

This is entirely normal in Scotland.

Fair enough. First hand evidence. Do the banks only issue their own notes?

 

[kkong]

Fair enough. First hand evidence. Do the banks only issue their own notes?

I think so, but I have not visited a Scottish bank's own ATM for some time.

If they are any nearby when I next require cash, I will try them out.

 

[redreni]

Why not just accept the reason is the one given on the notice? Why assume it’s some sort of conspiracy against Scottish notes? I suspect there’s no mileage in discussing further.

I must confess I haven't the slightest inkling what you're talking about at this point, so yes, more than happy to let it lie.

 

[Richardr]

As for switching to all cashless - that's what the banks want so they can hold on to our money longer. You pay me cash today, I can use that cash to immediately pay someone else. You pay me by card and whilst it's immediately removed from your bank account, it takes 3 working days to reach mine.

People using cash will have withdrawn cash from an ATM, and that will often be some time, and in all cases will be before they make cash payments.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Please clarify.

Do you think I am expecting too much for the rail industry to configure and maintain its TVMs correctly?

Or something else?

It's a lucrative business for TVM suppliers

 

[Buzby]

When I was in Scotland a lot of non-Scottish banks e.g. Santander were issuing Clydesdale bank notes

Still did as of yesterday nice new polymer ones. I did laugh at how the Hong Kong & Shanghai Banking Corporation was an ‘English’ bank (HSBC).

RBS now NatWest is an English bank, as is the Bank of Scotland (Lloyds) so there’s no consistency.

 

[Mainline421]

People using cash will have withdrawn cash from an ATM, and that will often be some time, and in all cases will be before they make cash payments.

Not necessarily, a lot of people receive cash.

 

[TUC]

I used to do the opposite. Whenever I visited Scotland, I used to make sure I took some notes back to Wales. Great fun seeing the perplexed look on the face of the cashier in Tesco or Kwiksave.

Me too!

 

[Halwynd]

Still did as of yesterday nice new polymer ones. I did laugh at how the Hong Kong & Shanghai Banking Corporation was an ‘English’ bank (HSBC).

RBS now NatWest is an English bank, as is the Bank of Scotland (Lloyds) so there’s no consistency.

NatWest operates under a UK banking licence and is registered in England & Wales. RBS operates under a separate UK banking licence and is registered in Scotland. Both are separate legal entities but subsidiaries of an intermediate holding company - NatWest Holdings Limited - which is registered in England & Wales. This intermediate company is owned by NatWest Group plc which is registered in Scotland.

Bank of Scotland has a UK banking licence and is registered in Scotland. Lloyds has a separate UK banking licence and is registered in England & Wales.

So, RBS and Bank of Scotland both remain Scottish banks.

 

[Thirteen]

With the Channel Islands and Isle of Man, their sterling isn't legal tender in the UK and Northern Ireland because they aren't part of the UK and it's not legal currency like Scottish and Irish banknotes.

I always find it funny when tourists still have really old banknotes, surely if you're going away, you would check if your old money is still valid.

 

[WestCoast]

I used to do the opposite. Whenever I visited Scotland, I used to make sure I took some notes back to Wales. Great fun seeing the perplexed look on the face of the cashier in Tesco or Kwiksave.

My preferred payment method for pretty much anything now is card, but I reserve my Scottish banknotes for taxi drivers in (southern) England with signs on their vehicles saying cards accepted but then want cash, soon gets their card machines working again..

 

[Bungle965]

I don't believe any TVMs accept £50 notes, and I would be very surprised if any accept notes issued by Northern Ireland banks.

Avanti TVMs have accepted £50 notes from the outset.

 

[Hadders]

TVMs and other payment terminals (such as supermarket self-checkouts) have sophisticated banknote readers which can detect whether banknotes are genuine or not.

Such readers should - if they are properly maintained - be regularly updated with the "signatures" of all valid banknotes.

It takes no extra effort on behalf of the maintainers to include the various Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes in the list.

In the UK, I would therefore expect all note-accepting TVMs to accept all UK banknotes.

The major supermarkets certainly seem to manage to do this.

One of the reasons the King Charles bank notes aren't yet in general circulation is to allow the retail industry time to update self-checkouts. All TVMs will require this update (and have probably already had it in preparation). There's really no good reason to prevent TVMs from accepting Scottish and Northern Irish notes.

I don't believe any TVMs accept £50 notes, and I would be very surprised if any accept notes issued by Northern Ireland banks.

They certainly should accept them. There's no reason why they couldn't be programmed to accept them. I'd say there's more of a risk not accepting them - a TVM should be able to identify a forged note, but if TVMs aren't programmed to accept them then customers will use ticket offices where there is more risk of a forged note slipping through.

 

[Deerfold]

I always find it funny when tourists still have really old banknotes, surely if you're going away, you would check if your old money is still valid.

Many countries don't change their currency as often as we do.

In the US, currency does not become expired, although well-used notes are removed from circulation so they become rarer. Many faces on their notes have been unchanged for over 100 years.

Euro notes also do not expire (though typically they're in circulation for 3 years so few of the first series remain in circulation).

 

[RJ]

Working in a ticket office, we get Scottish and Northern Irish sterling notes from time to time. We book them up and carry on with our day.

If there is a fraud pretext for having issues accepting them then fair enough. Anyone who runs a business won’t want to be losing money in this way so until they find a way to effectively filter out the counterfeit notes, it’s understandable they won’t take them. Rightly or wrongly, acceptance of Scottish notes in England has been patchy as long as I can remember so like with Amex, it’s always worth carrying more readily accepted alternatives.

 

[WAB]

You referring to Scottish bank notes used by millions of people in the UK as an 'obscure currency' tells us all we need to know.

You mean the sub-type of an outmoded and declining form of payment which only circulates in an area with 8% of the UK population, and which only forms a proportion of the notes in circulation in said area? That counts as obscure to me...

 

[185143]

My preferred payment method for pretty much anything now is card, but I reserve my Scottish banknotes for taxi drivers in (southern) England with signs on their vehicles saying cards accepted but then want cash, soon gets their card machines working again..

I usually bring some Scottish notes back with me, pretty much the only time I use cash. I like a couple to go to the local taxi drivers

Who, to be fair, (Private Hire at least) are perfectly happy taking cash or card. They usually give them more of a look than English notes, but can't recall having one refused or being asked to pay by card instead. In fairness, I'm on the WCML up North, albeit still a good way from Scotland.

I paid with one in Costco in Manchester once and the member of staff I handed it to didn't even attempt to check it herself, but went straight over to the manager's desk and put it under the UV light, discussed it and then came back and gave me my change. Was tempted to bite the pound coin to check it wasn't chocolate, as per one of Peter Kay's jokes.

 

[317 forever]

I lived in Edinburgh for a few years and came to London on August Bank Holiday 2002.

It amused me when I bought my Travelcard at Victoria using a Scottish £20 note, and was given a Scottish £10 note as part of the change. It was a logical decision by the ticket clerk, as I was (in theory as well as in practice) more likely to agree it was useful than other passengers.

 

[CyrusWuff]

They certainly should accept them. There's no reason why they couldn't be programmed to accept them.

A key reason for TVMs not accepting £50 notes is that not all of them recycle notes to use them to give change. As such, if you paid for a £3 ticket with one you'd potentially get 47 £1 coins back.

Also stops people from using them as a change machine: Choose a ticket costing more than £50, insert a £50 note, hit Cancel and get 50 £1 coins in return.