End of the line for Paris’ iconic metro ticket

[Feuillesmortes]

What do I do now? Can I get a smart card from Eurostar? Or in advance of arrival at GdN?

Simply need to buy a top-of-the-range Samsung phone, or find a non-registered Navigo pass on ebay!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Useful thread folks appreciate it. Never crossed Paris but about to do it for the first time from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon and seems like getting some tickets from Eurostar buffet car will be easiest? Flying home so even with five of us it seems excessive to get the smart card or app for one time only trip.

 

[AdamWW]

Useful thread folks appreciate it. Never crossed Paris but about to do it for the first time from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon and seems like getting some tickets from Eurostar buffet car will be easiest? Flying home so even with five of us it seems excessive to get the smart card or app for one time only trip.

Crossed from Gare de Lyon ton Gare du Nord recently. No problem finding an RATP ticket machine to sell me a card ticket. (It asked me if I had a Navigo card, I said no, and it offered the ticket).

 

[CC 72100]

Useful thread folks appreciate it. Never crossed Paris but about to do it for the first time from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon and seems like getting some tickets from Eurostar buffet car will be easiest? Flying home so even with five of us it seems excessive to get the smart card or app for one time only trip.

In that situation, buffet car on the Eurostar may be for the best.

As pointed out, you can use the self service ticket machines, but my experience of arriving on Eurostar is that the ones you come to first are rammed and roving customer service people to help people having issues with the machines aren't really RATP/SNCF's thing.

That and the fact you'd be doing the same transaction 5 times.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

As pointed out, you can use the self service ticket machines, but my experience of arriving on Eurostar is that the ones you come to first are rammed and roving customer service people to help people having issues with the machines aren't really RATP/SNCF's thing.

Also groups of teenage pickpockets operate very efficiently in these crowded areas.

 

[185]

To not have Contactless bank cards in this day and age for any metro is an embarrassment. Sydney, Melbourne, London, New York... but no, not Paris, 'nous protestons'

 

[mike57]

Also groups of teenage pickpockets operate very efficiently in these crowded areas.

As we discovered a few years ago, had my wallet lifted while trying to sort tickets on arrival at Gare du Nord. Had just purchased our onward travel tickets at a machine, as we needed more than a t+ ticket, so couldn't buy on Eurostar, and wallet dissappeared whilst sorting cases and bags. Fortunately it was only my travel wallet, had about £20, 40E and one card with very little money on it, so irratating but not a major loss. Thats why we always top up our Navigos before departure now, when we get to Gare du Nord, just head staight down the Metro/RER.

Gare du Nord really is a den of thieves and scam artists, with some beggars thrown in, not violent, but working every scam known to man on unwary tourists, seems much worse than any of the other major stations in Paris.

 

[CC 72100]

Unfortunately Gare du Nord serves Paris' most difficult suburbs in the North which can't be coincidental in then some of the behaviour.

Gare de l'Est, albeit practically next door, is (well was during my time there) a peaceful oasis in comparison.

The RER platforms underground at Nord are horrible; narrow, dingy and then has some of the interesting characters as previously described.

 

[AdamWW]

That and the fact you'd be doing the same transaction 5 times.

I'm fairly sure when I bought one a few days ago the machine would have let me order 5 in one transaction.

To not have Contactless bank cards in this day and age for any metro is an embarrassment. Sydney, Melbourne, London, New York... but no, not Paris, 'nous protestons'

No contactless on Spanish metros either (at least not Madrid and Barcelona). And I think it's only just starting to be implemented in the Netherlands.

Gare du Nord really is a den of thieves and scam artists, with some beggars thrown in, not violent, but working every scam known to man on unwary tourists, seems much worse than any of the other major stations in Paris.

I was once travelling for work with a colleague who had his wallet lifted at Gare du Nord. I went with him when he went to report it to the police and managed to hold my tongue every time he badly mis-pronounced Gare du Nord. It really wasn't the time...

 

[YorkshireBear]

Noted about Paris gare du Nord. I am off to Italy anyway so was already wary enough of pickpockets that I was planning my clothing accordingly.

 

[Austriantrain]

No contactless on Spanish metros either (at least not Madrid and Barcelona). And I think it's only just starting to be implemented in the Netherlands.

As far as I am aware, no contactless in the German speaking countries either, and mostly no concrete plan to offer it.

Which can be explained by the fact that we tend not to have ticket barriers in metro systems and no „tapping in/tapping out“, so the entire infrastructure would have to be built from scratch. Given the extremely high share of season ticket users, probably not cost-effective, so I expect things to change only with mobile-based services (the mobile phone „taps in and out“ and no physical infrastructure needed).

 

[AdamWW]

As far as I am aware, no contactless in the German speaking countries either, and mostly no concrete plan to offer it.

Which can be explained by the fact that we tend not to have ticket barriers in metro systems and no „tapping in/tapping out“, so the entire infrastructure would have to be built from scratch. Given the extremely high share of season ticket users, probably not cost-effective, so I expect things to change only with mobile-based services (the mobile phone „taps in and out“ and no physical infrastructure needed).

I don't see so much need for it where paper tickets are used - it's places where you have to get yourself the right sort of contactless card to travel where it's really useful to just be able to use a credit or debit card.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Which can be explained by the fact that we tend not to have ticket barriers in metro systems and no „tapping in/tapping out“, so the entire infrastructure would have to be built from scratch.

A few composteurs dotted about is much cheaper and it makes for a superior journey experience without having to stop to get through barriers.

 

[Austriantrain]

I don't see so much need for it where paper tickets are used - it's places where you have to get yourself the right sort of contactless card to travel where it's really useful to just be able to use a credit or debit card.

Thanks, now I understand your point.

Being able to buy a ticket on your phone at any time is a good substitute too, IMO.

 

[BahrainLad]

I like Berlin back in March. Walk down to the S Bahn at BER, sit on train, open BVG app, buy 24h ticket at the last minute right before the train leaves. €10 or thereabouts paid using Apple Pay from the EUR balance on my Revolut account, so no fees. Then forget about tickets completely until the same time the next day.

About as seamless as can be…even if I did have to show for inspection on another S Bahn at around midnight on the way back from dinner!

 

[miklcct]

I like Berlin back in March. Walk down to the S Bahn at BER, sit on train, open BVG app, buy 24h ticket at the last minute right before the train leaves. €10 or thereabouts paid using Apple Pay from the EUR balance on my Revolut account, so no fees. Then forget about tickets completely until the same time the next day.

About as seamless as can be…even if I did have to show for inspection on another S Bahn at around midnight on the way back from dinner!

How about having just a few journeys in a day? I'm sure that buying a ticket on your app, when you are running for a train, and do it 4 times a day, is less convenient than just tapping in and out your card.

I'd say that tapping in and out is always far superior for anyone compared to buying / activating mobile tickets on the phone.

The barrierless experience is at the expense of having to buy tickets before travel every single time. Imagine the same is replicated in London, with the cheap fare only accessible in app, I'd then need to activate a single ticket every time before I board a train which is vastly inconvenient.

 

[ashkeba]

As far as I am aware, no contactless in the German speaking countries either, and mostly no concrete plan to offer it.

I think Bonn's "BONNsmart" lets you use a contactless card not only their smartcard.

 

[BahrainLad]

How about having just a few journeys in a day? I'm sure that buying a ticket on your app, when you are running for a train, and do it 4 times a day, is less convenient than just tapping in and out your card.

I'd say that tapping in and out is always far superior for anyone compared to buying / activating mobile tickets on the phone.

The barrierless experience is at the expense of having to buy tickets before travel every single time. Imagine the same is replicated in London, with the cheap fare only accessible in app, I'd then need to activate a single ticket every time before I board a train which is vastly inconvenient.

Well, 4 tickets in a day on the BVG in zone AB would be €12, so you're better off buying a 24h ticket for €8.80...

In any case, I didn't comment on whether it was a better system, just that I liked it because (as a visitor) it was super easy and seamless. It was certainly easier than buying a carnet and then using it on the Paris metro.

Presumably barrierless systems exist where the network is quite heavily subsidised and the assumption is that most travellers have some kind of pass or concession, either personally purchased or through their company/school/uni etc.?

 

[Austriantrain]

Presumably barrierless systems exist where the network is quite heavily subsidised and the assumption is that most travellers have some kind of pass or concession, either personally purchased or through their company/school/uni etc.?

Certainly the case here in Vienna, where the vast majority of passengers has a yearly pass at EUR 365,-

Single tickets are comparatively expensive, but daily/weekly passes are easily amortized.

I don’t think we will ever get contactless; just not worth the investment. I expect that at some point we will be able to check in/out by phone though.

 

[BahrainLad]

One thing I have used in Zurich is the ZVV app where you swipe a slider to start your journey, make your journey (for as long and via as many services/modes as you like) and then slide the slider back when you’re finished. The app knows exactly how you have travelled using GPS and its live timetable knowledge, and then adds it up at the end of the day and deducts the lowest applicable fare. Again no barriers anywhere.

 

[Austriantrain]

One thing I have used in Zurich is the ZVV app where you swipe a slider to start your journey, make your journey (for as long and via as many services/modes as you like) and then slide the slider back when you’re finished. The app knows exactly how you have travelled using GPS and its live timetable knowledge, and then adds it up at the end of the day and deducts the lowest applicable fare. Again no barriers anywhere.

Yes, the Swiss are quite advanced in this and I fully expect this system to expand to other places in Central Europe, completely skipping the step of contactless payment at (as yet mostly inexistent) ticket barriers. It offers the same benefits with no infrastructure costs.

 

[scragend]

Unfortunately Gare du Nord serves Paris' most difficult suburbs in the North which can't be coincidental in then some of the behaviour.

Gare de l'Est, albeit practically next door, is (well was during my time there) a peaceful oasis in comparison.

The RER platforms underground at Nord are horrible; narrow, dingy and then has some of the interesting characters as previously described.

Gare du Nord is the only place where beggars have wanted to enter into a discussion with me as to why I don't want to give them any money.

Walking out of the front of the station they descend on me with outstretched palms. I shake my head and they reply "Why not?"

 

[AY1975]

So the single paper tickets will be fully withdrawn after another year?

Has any date been mentioned for the end of use of card mètro tickets, i.e. the point at which the barrier readers may be taken out of service? The articles I have seen are silent on this point.

Like no doubt many, I have a fair stock of them and it would be handy to know.

Agreed, this article (in French) says that single paper tickets will continue to be available and that paper carnet tickets already bought will remain valid, with no cut-off date mentioned for either:

Suppression carnet de tickets métro bus RATP : dates, conditions, alternatives

Depuis le 21 septembre 2023, il est impossible d’acheter des carnets de tickets papier pour voyager dans les métros, les bus, les tramways et les RER de la RATP.

www.toutsurmesfinances.com

In practice, I would expect that RATP will eventually decide that so few single paper tickets are being sold, and so few paper carnet tickets bought before being withdrawn from sale are still being used, that it's not worth continuing to print them or maintaining the barrier equipment at Metro and RER stations and validators on buses and trams for them, just as many other transport undertakings that have switched to smart ticketing have decided that it is no longer worth maintaining their legacy ticketing equipment for so few passengers.

In that situation, buffet car on the Eurostar may be for the best.

You used to be able to buy carnets both at the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras and from the Eurostar buffet car. Do the Eurostar buffets still sell the single paper tickets? It would be useful if they could sell those and/or the smartcards.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Do the Eurostar buffets still sell the single paper tickets?

They were selling them in October ‘22 when I travelled via Paris

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Reading this thread I can't help but notice this will be a problem. The 'Mobilis Day Ticket' is a ticket sold by Ile-De-France mobilite which is owned by the IDF region government so RATP nor SNCF have control over it. However on the IDFM website I noticed the same ticket is only available in paper form. See here: https://www.iledefrance-mobilites.fr/en/tickets-fares/detail/mobilis-day-ticket

How to get it​

---

This ticket is available on the following media:

• Paper ticket

You can buy Mobilis at RATP and SNCF Transilien stations

Certainly, me and my friend only use that ticket because it's really the best of all "travelcard-like" tickets. My worry is if they will decide to replace the barriers with no ticket slot, which I have no idea how much authority IDFM has over RATP.

 

[CC 72100]

IDFM are basically TFL for Paris and the suburbs.

It's them who call the shots on ticketing and award contracts (one of the recent tram lines was awarded to someone else than RATP for example) so in theory the system would have to accept any ticket or product IDFM offers.

Of course, that's not to say the Mobilis may not go electronic though..

 

[WibbleWobble]

Mobilis is available in electronic form, either via the app or on the Navigo Easy (non-photo, but will cost an extra one-off 2 Euros) smartcard.

The app will also allow you to buy longer term Navigo tickets, as you don't need a French bank account unlike the regular (photo) Navigo card.

 

[rvdborgt]

The app will also allow you to buy longer term Navigo tickets, as you don't need a French bank account unlike the regular (photo) Navigo card.

What is so France-specific that you need a French bank account for it? If it works with direct debit, then they're obliged to accept any IBAN from any SEPA country.

 

[WibbleWobble]

What is so France-specific that you need a French bank account for it? If it works with direct debit, then they're obliged to accept any IBAN from any SEPA country.

The terms on the Île-de-France Mobilités website state that a Navigo is only available to those working or living within the Ile-de-France region. It might be that someone may be able to use a foreign account if they work for a multinational.

It was certainly the case that UK motorists couldn't obtain a toll tag for French motorways because they were only available to those with a French account. The operator Sanef got around this by setting up a satellite office in Harrogate!

 

[rvdborgt]

The terms on the Île-de-France Mobilités website state that a Navigo is only available to those working or living within the Ile-de-France region. It might be that someone may be able to use a foreign account if they work for a multinational.

They indeed try to limit access to monthly and annual season tickets by only allowing them on a "Navigo Travel Card" that can only be sent to addresses in France. They'll still have to accept any IBAN from any SEPA country though.

It was certainly the case that UK motorists couldn't obtain a toll tag for French motorways because they were only available to those with a French account. The operator Sanef got around this by setting up a satellite office in Harrogate!

Again, if payment is/was via direct debit, they're obliged to accept any IBAN from any SEPA country (not necessarily via a website but there must be a method; the UK remains in SEPA even after Brexit). The European court of Justice ruled 3 years ago that for direct debit payment, a company is not allowed to discriminate on the basis of country of residence. After that, non-German bank accounts could indeed be used to pay DB online. Also in the Netherlands, this had some consequences for e.g. NS and the OV-chipkaart.