England-Belfast SailRail via Dublin

[Trainbike46]

Seat61.com talks about using a SailRail through ticket on England-Belfast via Dublin? I've tried to find these on multiple ticket websites, but I do't seem to be able to find them. Do these tickets actually exists, or is this a case of booking an England-Dublin ticket, followed by a separate Enterprise ticket to Belfast?

Thank you in advance

 

[Haywain]

Such tickets do exist. They are routed Holyhead Stena or Holyhead Swift, for example.

 

[Trainbike46]

Thank you! Do you have any idea how or where to buy them? All the booking engines I have tried won't work

 

[Wallsendmag]

Due to the reservation requirement I doubt most websites would be able to sell this, try a good old fashioned Travel Centre

 

[Watershed]

The issue is that trains between Dublin and Belfast are no longer in the timetable data. So journey planners cannot find any itineraries for that route, and accordingly refuse to offer the ticket.

You may have more success at a ticket office, but equally they may be similarly constrained by their TIS' software.

 

[Flying Snail]

It's very unlikely that a ticket office would be any better than online sales. Even if it is possible to force the sale you would need a clerk with the knowledge and willingness to ignore the booking system.

As OP is from Belfast he may find the Translink ticket office (or travel centre at GVS if it's still open) are able to sell it.

Looking at the prices it may well be cheaper to buy the Dublin Belfast leg separately anyway, Irish Rail sell online from €15 one way and Translink start at £11 one way. The difference between a sailrail to Dublin and one to Belfast via Holyhead is £16-17 The bus from Dublin port to Connolly will have to be paid even with the through ticket.

 

[chaikhosi]

The bus from Dublin port to Connolly will have to be paid even with the through ticket.

I arrived in Dublin via Holyhead two weeks ago with a sail rail ticket, and there was a free transfer bus from outside the ferry terminal to Connolly. A surprise to me and most of the other foot passengers. Run by Nolan Coaches, and apparently you can take it from Connolly to the ferry as well. Says online it costs €3 but nobody was charged.
Nolan Coaches ferry shuttle bus

 

[185143]

I arrived in Dublin via Holyhead two weeks ago with a sail rail ticket, and there was a free transfer bus from outside the ferry terminal to Connolly. A surprise to me and most of the other foot passengers. Run by Nolan Coaches, and apparently you can take it from Connolly to the ferry as well. Says online it costs €3 but nobody was charged.
Nolan Coaches ferry shuttle bus

Everyone was charged last Sunday when I did it in both directions.

The contactless wasn't working on the card reader for some reason. Paying chip+pin on a bus was rather odd!

 

[Trainbike46]

Thanks everyone who replied, that was really helpful!

 

[danm14]

Looking at the prices it may well be cheaper to buy the Dublin Belfast leg separately anyway, Irish Rail sell online from €15 one way and Translink start at £11 one way. The difference between a sailrail to Dublin and one to Belfast via Holyhead is £16-17 The bus from Dublin port to Connolly will have to be paid even with the through ticket.

Since the Irish Rail 20% fare reduction, I do not believe there is any journey for which the through fare (if actually available to purchase) would be cheaper.

It should also be noted that students of any age, including part-time students, are now entitled to half price travel on Irish Rail (effectively child fare) by purchasing a "Young Adult/Student" ticket. Any valid student card from any country in the world confers eligibility. Those aged 18-23 are also eligible for these fares regardless of student status, but only if in possession of either a Young Adult Leap Card or a Translink (Ulsterbus/NI Railways) yLink card - simple proof of age is insufficient. A Translink yLink card is free and can be sent to any address in the UK or Republic of Ireland, see https://www.ylinktranslink.co.uk/

Translink NI Railways also offer an unadvertised student/yLink/Young Adult Leap Card discount on walk-up Enterprise fares starting in Northern Ireland - with a single ticket available at the walk-up child single fare and a return ticket available at the walk-up adult single fare (although it will always be cheaper to buy a single and book the return leg online with Irish Rail)

 

[SeanG]

As an aside to this, and to avoid creating a new thread, if one holds a SailRail ticket (particularly a 'standby' ticket), is there any obligation to hold/show a ferry reservation on the train leg to the port?

 

[Sniffingmoose]

My local ticket office sells all the Sale Rail tickets. I have just purchaced one to Douglas I.O.M. You cant beat a good ticket office.

 

[Trainbike46]

As an aside to this, and to avoid creating a new thread, if one holds a SailRail ticket (particularly a 'standby' ticket), is there any obligation to hold/show a ferry reservation on the train leg to the port?

On the SailRail via Cairnryan I've never had to show my ferry reservation anywhere, not even on the ferry! I doubt it would be much different for the holyhead/dublin route?

 

[Flying Snail]

As an aside to this, and to avoid creating a new thread, if one holds a SailRail ticket (particularly a 'standby' ticket), is there any obligation to hold/show a ferry reservation on the train leg to the port?

I am curious as to what possible situation you could be in where you wouldn't have the reservation as well as the ticket to show?

 

[SeanG]

I am curious as to what possible situation you could be in where you wouldn't have the reservation as well as the ticket to show?

Following on from this thread I couldn't possibly say although checking BR Fares may provide some journeys where this may be advantageous - I'll drop you a message

 

[danm14]

I couldn't possibly say although checking BR Fares may provide some journeys where this may be advantageous - I'll drop you a message

You are unable to purchase a SailRail ticket without obtaining a ferry reservation, so doing this is taking one of the limited number of ferry reservations away from someone who actually wishes to use the ferry. In addition to this, abuse of SailRail tickets risks their withdrawal in future, and their conditions have previously been tightened due to abuse.

SailRail is the only affordable way for people who cannot or do not wish to fly to travel between Britain and Ireland. It is also often the only affordable way for those who who need to travel at very short notice, at times of very high demand or with bulky luggage. My extended family were recently able to attend a funeral thanks to SailRail - having been quoted something in the region of £1,000 which they could not afford for next-day flights for two adults over the Jubilee weekend, they were instead able to travel by SailRail for under £200 return.

SailRail is not some obscure loophole that means you can travel via London on a £10 Glasgow-Edinburgh ticket, that everyone can have their fun with until it eventually gets closed and nobody's any worse off because it shouldn't have happened in the first place. It is a very useful product which is a lifeline to many, and its withdrawal would cause actual hurt to its intended market.

 

[Trainbike46]

You are unable to purchase a SailRail ticket without obtaining a ferry reservation, so doing this is taking one of the limited number of ferry reservations away from someone who actually wishes to use the ferry. In addition to this, abuse of SailRail tickets risks their withdrawal in future, and their conditions have previously been tightened due to abuse.

SailRail is the only affordable way for people who cannot or do not wish to fly to travel between Britain and Ireland. It is also often the only affordable way for those who who need to travel at very short notice, at times of very high demand or with bulky luggage. My extended family were recently able to attend a funeral thanks to SailRail - having been quoted something in the region of £1,000 which they could not afford for next-day flights for two adults over the Jubilee weekend, they were instead able to travel by SailRail for under £200 return.

SailRail is not some obscure loophole that means you can travel via London on a £10 Glasgow-Edinburgh ticket, that everyone can have their fun with until it eventually gets closed and nobody's any worse off because it shouldn't have happened in the first place. It is a very useful product which is a lifeline to many, and its withdrawal would cause actual hurt to its intended market.

I agree, SailRail tickets are essential for me as well.

Though I do believe some political pressure in support of SailRail would be good, because currently it happens too often that actions by various rail companies (specifically Scotrail and Avanti) make it hard or impossible to buy them. I will be writing to my MP about how important SailRail is and that it should be expanded, and if it is important for you, please consider doing the same!

 

[danm14]

Though I do believe some political pressure in support of SailRail would be good, because currently it happens too often that actions by various rail companies (specifically Scotrail and Avanti) make it hard or impossible to buy them. I will be writing to my MP about how important SailRail is and that it should be expanded, and if it is important for you, please consider doing the same!

I had previously contacted my MP and MLAs when SailRail via Cairnryan was cut back to one service per day, and again on the various occasions where it was suspended during Covid despite travel not being restricted. Not once did I get the dignity of a response.

I am now living in the Republic of Ireland, where we have escaped all of the additional restrictions applied to SailRail tickets issued in the UK due to the inherent difficulty in abusing a ticket that can only be collected in Dublin/Rosslare or posted to an address on the island of Ireland.

 

[cf111]

It really is a brilliant, affordable product and it would be a shame if it were ever withdrawn.

 

[Julia]

I did SailRail last weekend (a remarkable bargain starting from Cambs for £45!) and the Nolan shuttle bus now goes to Tara Street DART rather than Connolly. Didn't fancy hanging around in the street at 00:40 on a Sunday for the bus connecting with the sailing overnight but a cab from Connolly is not too expensive.

As an aside, the overnight ferry sailed as soon as everyone who had a reservation was loaded, which in my case was half an hour early - only seven foot passengers, so the process was not exactly time consuming!

 

[185143]

I did SailRail last weekend (a remarkable bargain starting from Cambs for £45!) and the Nolan shuttle bus now goes to Tara Street DART rather than Connolly. Didn't fancy hanging around in the street at 00:40 on a Sunday for the bus connecting with the sailing overnight but a cab from Connolly is not too expensive.

As an aside, the overnight ferry sailed as soon as everyone who had a reservation was loaded, which in my case was half an hour early - only seven foot passengers, so the process was not exactly time consuming!

That's normal full stop. I've left Holyhead 10-15 minutes early on several occasions now.

 

[TUC]

The issue is that trains between Dublin and Belfast are no longer in the timetable data. So journey planners cannot find any itineraries for that route, and accordingly refuse to offer the ticket.

You may have more success at a ticket office, but equally they may be similarly constrained by their TIS' software.

Does anyone know why this is? Is it due to CIE/Translink failing to provide the data, or is it a failure to keep it up to date on the National Rail side?

 

[paul1609]

Does anyone know why this is? Is it due to CIE/Translink failing to provide the data, or is it a failure to keep it up to date on the National Rail side?

The flow belongs to Transport for Wales whose responsible for loading the timetable data. I suspect its probably not a priority if you are short of resources for a service that will be used by a handfull of customers a year.
I used a through ticket to Galway about 3 years ago the conductor on the Dublin to Galway train reckoned hed only seen a handful of GB tickets in 10 years and the last before me was about 2 years previous.

 

[TUC]

The flow belongs to Transport for Wales whose responsible for loading the timetable data. I suspect its probably not a priority if you are short of resources for a service that will be used by a handfull of customers a year.
I used a through ticket to Galway about 3 years ago the conductor on the Dublin to Galway train reckoned hed only seen a handful of GB tickets in 10 years and the last before me was about 2 years previous.

Not a priority? It is one of those 'how difficult is it?' questions. Loading timetable data is the day job, not an optional extra,

 

[Watershed]

Not a priority? It is one of those 'how difficult is it?' questions. Loading timetable data is the day job, not an optional extra,

Loading timetable for foreign operators is unlikely to be anyone's day job. It's possible it's a task that has simply 'slipped through the net' as procedures or staff have changed.

 

[paul1609]

Loading timetable for foreign operators is unlikely to be anyone's day job. It's possible it's a task that has simply 'slipped through the net' as procedures or staff have changed.

I believe the Londonderry timetable dropped off the plot about 5 years ago.
I suspect that the passenger figures booking through tickets beyond Dublin or Belfast are so low they are no longer worth bothering about.
We know from the ORR figures that Holyhead deals with around 200k passengers a year including local traffic. Sailrail traffic despite the bargain price is pretty minimal. Personal observation of the Rail connection bus at Cairnryan suggests that even including Belfast the sailrail traffic is all but extinct.

 

[Trainbike46]

I believe the Londonderry timetable dropped off the plot about 5 years ago.
I suspect that the passenger figures booking through tickets beyond Dublin or Belfast are so low they are no longer worth bothering about.
We know from the ORR figures that Holyhead deals with around 200k passengers a year including local traffic. Sailrail traffic despite the bargain price is pretty minimal. Personal observation of the Rail connection bus at Cairnryan suggests that even including Belfast the sailrail traffic is all but extinct.

at least for the belfast-cairnryan route, the connection bus is on occasion well-filled. And that is with certain elements of the UK rail industry making booking it unnecesarily hard. I blame Avanti specifically, as they have a history of making their first morning train to glasgow bot non-reservable and reservations compulsory, this means it becomes impossible to buy london-Belfast tickets, or tickets from almost any station that isn't in Scotland. I genuinely believe that if the service was treated slightly better, for starters by ending the practice of compulsory reservations on avanti, and ideally by connecting into 3 sailings each way instead of one, the service would be more popular

 

[paul1609]

at least for the belfast-cairnryan route, the connection bus is on occasion well-filled. And that is with certain elements of the UK rail industry making booking it unnecesarily hard. I blame Avanti specifically, as they have a history of making their first morning train to glasgow bot non-reservable and reservations compulsory, this means it becomes impossible to buy london-Belfast tickets, or tickets from almost any station that isn't in Scotland. I genuinely believe that if the service was treated slightly better, for starters by ending the practice of compulsory reservations on avanti, and ideally by connecting into 3 sailings each way instead of one, the service would be more popular

Id say that the average number of people on the bus is probably between 10 and 20, more in the Summer and often in low single figures in the winter. Theres not actually very high numbers of foot passengers on these ferries at all. This situation well predates Avanti and its why the bus was dropped to one a day.

 

[Trainbike46]

Id say that the average number of people on the bus is probably between 10 and 20, more in the Summer and often in low single figures in the winter. Theres not actually very high numbers of foot passengers on these ferries at all. This situation well predates Avanti and its why the bus was dropped to one a day.

Foot passenger numbers can be pretty high actually, but most foot passengers get collected by friends/family, take the coach or park at one end.

I'm sure it's not a busy route, but at the same time, making it impossible to buy tickets definitely won't help

I've used it repeatedly, but have mostly settled on the (faster, more expensive) via liverpool route recently

 

[Flying Snail]

I believe the Londonderry timetable dropped off the plot about 5 years ago.
I suspect that the passenger figures booking through tickets beyond Dublin or Belfast are so low they are no longer worth bothering about.
We know from the ORR figures that Holyhead deals with around 200k passengers a year including local traffic. Sailrail traffic despite the bargain price is pretty minimal.

You state this as a fact repeatedly but you can quote no sources for it.

It is a reasonable assumption that the Irish sold sail-rail are not included in ORR figures, if nobody is bothered enough to enter the NIR/IE timetable date they aren't going to manually collate and input the sail-rail sales and assign them to Holyhead. It is not even a given that UK sold tickets are assigned to the port stations as they are not in fact sold to/from those stations.

My observation as a regular user of Dublin - Holyhead is that daytime sailings will load at least 1 bus from terminal to ferry. My last 4 trips were massively varied from a handful on an overnight Sunday morning to 4 full bus loads on an afternoon in summer. how many of those were sail-rail I have no idea but it is not in the least used station league. A conservative estimate of an average of 10 per sailing would still put it in around 50k/year.