Essential vs non essential items discussion

[Meerkat]

but modest size TV's are very easy to get out the box with one person.

who only wants a modest telly, especially in lockdown?!

If there is no extra risk there then there is no extra risk buying it at the supermarket.

Except that if people are putting non-essentials in their trolleys they are likely to be going to the supermarket more often

Most people are mostly following the rules most of the time. What is "essential" to one person may be frivolous to another. Newspapers are a great example. I've honestly not bought a newspaper in years, but other people simply must have their morning paper. We're all in it together.

I would imagine there would be rather a rumpus if the government restricted the people’s access to the press!

 

[oldman]

... whilst you explain to Karen from Doncaster that she can‘t buy chocolate digestives, crisps, fizzy pop, a bag of fruit pastilles, ice cream, or a bar of Dairy Milk.

Let her eat cake (zero-rated). Remember the great Jaffa cake debate.

I saw a woman buying a big bag of compost in Tesco yesterday. Apart from the practical problem of how to scan it, should this be allowed - at all, or only if she promises to use it to grow vegetables? Surely this is no time for hanging baskets.

And what about the paperboy who has just wandered past - key worker or enemy of society?

 

[GB]

who only wants a modest telly, especially in lockdown?!

Except that if people are putting non-essentials in their trolleys they are likely to be going to the supermarket more often

I would imagine there would be rather a rumpus if the government restricted the people’s access to the press!

Clutching at straws with your argument.

 

[Enthusiast]

I agree with you, but off licences were also allowed to stay open and I wouldn't call a crate of Stella an essential

If you are an alcoholic you suffer from an illness. You are allowed to leave home for any medical purpose and if you need a crate of Stella to treat your illness then leaving home to get one keeps you within the law.

Meanwhile Debenhams is not allowed to open and has gone bust....

This is the second time in twelve months that Debenhams has gone into administration (not "bust" technically as they are still trading online). They have been in trouble for some time and the costs associated with running their shops seem to be the main issue (administrators last time permanently closed 22 shops). The virus may well actually do them a favour and hasten the reorganisation of their business. I agree that it is blatantly unfair that Debenhams may not open to sell clothes whilst Tesco can but, as outlined above, to attempt to define and separate "essential" from "non-essential" goods would cause more trouble than it cures.

 

[Meerkat]

I agree that it is blatantly unfair that Debenhams may not open to sell clothes whilst Tesco can

i would think Debs would rather be closed, drastically Reducing costs with the government paying a huge chunk of their salary bill, than be open with almost no customers - as was the case in the week before they closed.

 

[Iskra]

i would think Debs would rather be closed, drastically Reducing costs with the government paying a huge chunk of their salary bill, than be open with almost no customers - as was the case in the week before they closed.

Yes, and they can still make money through online sales too.

 

[Hadders]

Hardly an insuperable challenge! Just move the non essential stuff to one end of the store and cordon it off. That would give a more efficient flow of customers around the remaining aisles. No need for staff to "police" it - program the tills not to accept non essential items.

But heaven forfend the supermarkets should be asked to do anything that might dent the extra profits they are raking in during this crisis! Meanwhile Debenhams is not allowed to open and has gone bust....

But the staff moving this stuff around would be better engaged doing something more productive, such as filling the food shelves, limiting the number of people allowed in the store at any one time, covering for the 20%+ absence levels being seen at present.

Not to mention the additional conflict for staff to deal with when a customer sees something they want to buy in the cordoned off area....

It's nowhere near as simple as you think.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I forget who said it and have not quite managed to find my way around the new forum software to quote it, but someone also mentioned defining essentials as grocery items carrying 0% VAT. I’ll accept that if you let me attend (by video link of course) whilst you explain to Karen from Doncaster that she can‘t buy chocolate digestives, crisps, fizzy pop, a bag of fruit pastilles, ice cream, or a bar of Dairy Milk.

It was me, but it was later proven not a viable option because e.g. (disgracefully) there are essentials, such as feminine hygiene products, which do carry VAT.

However, I would indeed say that none of the items you listed above are essentials, and you should only go out to purchase those if you also require actual essentials, i.e. food for three meals on the table per day. I am certainly working on this principle, my local shop is about 2 minutes' walk away and I often pop down for a bar of chocolate or packet of sweets in normal circumstances, and am refraining from doing so at present because I don't see that it justifies the risk to the shopkeeper of me potentially spreading to him for that purpose. This is doing my waistline a bit of good, but that's not why.

This is what I think the Police meant by checking baskets - not weeding out items, but making sure that the basket did actually contain essentials as well, and having words to suggest they're taking the mick and shouldn't do it again if not.

 

[CM]

It was me, but it was later proven not a viable option because e.g. (disgracefully) there are essentials, such as feminine hygiene products, which do carry VAT.

However, I would indeed say that none of the items you listed above are essentials, and you should only go out to purchase those if you also require actual essentials, i.e. food for three meals on the table per day. I am certainly working on this principle, my local shop is about 2 minutes' walk away and I often pop down for a bar of chocolate or packet of sweets in normal circumstances, and am refraining from doing so at present because I don't see that it justifies the risk to the shopkeeper of me potentially spreading to him for that purpose. This is doing my waistline a bit of good, but that's not why.

This is what I think the Police meant by checking baskets - not weeding out items, but making sure that the basket did actually contain essentials as well, and having words to suggest they're taking the mick and shouldn't do it again if not.

If they want us to only buy "essential" items then they must provide a list of these essential items. As of yet, neither the Government, Police or anyone on here has provided this mysterious list of so-called "essential" items. Going by what some people on here are saying we should be living on nothing but tap water and bread.

 

[ashkeba]

Surely this is no time for hanging baskets.

As you well know, hanging baskets are essential for mental health and therefore permitted.

How would you enforce it anyway? DNA scans of plants to make sure they were all grown from seed on the premises? Ain't no police got time for that!

 

[Ianno87]

It was me, but it was later proven not a viable option because e.g. (disgracefully) there are essentials, such as feminine hygiene products, which do carry VAT.

However, I would indeed say that none of the items you listed above are essentials, and you should only go out to purchase those if you also require actual essentials, i.e. food for three meals on the table per day. I am certainly working on this principle, my local shop is about 2 minutes' walk away and I often pop down for a bar of chocolate or packet of sweets in normal circumstances, and am refraining from doing so at present because I don't see that it justifies the risk to the shopkeeper of me potentially spreading to him for that purpose. This is doing my waistline a bit of good, but that's not why.

This is what I think the Police meant by checking baskets - not weeding out items, but making sure that the basket did actually contain essentials as well, and having words to suggest they're taking the mick and shouldn't do it again if not.

The definition of "taking the mick" is fairly subjective. Does a trolley full of new cushions / home furnishing count as OK provided there's a single pint of milk in there? Where does the line fall?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The definition of "taking the mick" is fairly subjective. Does a trolley full of new cushions / home furnishing count as OK provided there's a single pint of milk in there? Where does the line fall?

The Police are trusted with using discretion along those lines in a wide range of cases. Given that we aren't talking about imposing fines for these borderline cases but rather talking to people suggesting they might have drawn the line in the wrong place, does it matter?

The best outcome is that people aren't going to the shop unless they need to. I think most people know full well what that means within reasonable bounds even if they are choosing to ignore it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hardly an insuperable challenge! Just move the non essential stuff to one end of the store and cordon it off. That would give a more efficient flow of customers around the remaining aisles. No need for staff to "police" it - program the tills not to accept non essential items.

But heaven forfend the supermarkets should be asked to do anything that might dent the extra profits they are raking in during this crisis! Meanwhile Debenhams is not allowed to open and has gone bust....

My local large Tesco (which I've been avoiding, TBH) has reportedly kept its homewares and electronics bit, which is on a mezzanine floor "upstairs", closed. They also close it at about 9pm normally, which is annoying if you want something from there late on!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they want us to only buy "essential" items then they must provide a list of these essential items. As of yet, neither the Government, Police or anyone on here has provided this mysterious list of so-called "essential" items. Going by what some people on here are saying we should be living on nothing but tap water and bread.

Why should they do that? With a bit of an overlap, I think most people have a good impression of what they need vs. what they want. Most people who are debating these things are choosing to go to shops for things they want and using workarounds to justify it.

Can you put 3 balanced meals per day on the table and do you have enough sanitary and cleaning products? If so, you don't need to go to Tesco.

Also, if you need (through addiction) a packet of fags, it isn't an excuse to go to the big Tesco, just go to your local shop, it'll be quieter and you will save the big Tesco for those who need it.

 

[si404]

It was me, but it was later proven not a viable option because e.g. (disgracefully) there are essentials, such as feminine hygiene products, which do carry VAT.

Though the zero rating of feminine hygiene products has passed Parliament via The Budget last month, and the only reason why it hasn't been implemented yet is that apparently we can't do so while in the Brexit transition period. As such, should the highly authoritarian banning of the sale of 'non-essential' goods happen using the zero-rating as a criteria, it shouldn't be too difficult to write a short clause in the bill to make it the stuff that would be zero-rated from January 1st.

I can't see why we couldn't have already done the zero-rating last week (beginning of the financial year). The EU has too seen the error of not zero-rating such products when it set the rules on VAT in the 90s, and even if it did constitute a premature divergence in violation of the agreement made in January it would be a really stupid thing for the EU to pick a fight with the UK on.

 

[sheff1]

Hardly an insuperable challenge! Just move the non essential stuff to one end of the store and cordon it off. That would give a more efficient flow of customers around the remaining aisles. No need for staff to "police" it - program the tills not to accept non essential items.

Where is this list of non-essential items ?
Both Cambridgeshire & Northamptonshire Police seem strangely reluctant to divulge details.

 

[CM]

Where is this list of non-essential items ?
Both Cambridgeshire & Northamptonshire Police seem strangely reluctant to divulge details.

There isn't a list. If a shop has something on it's shelves for sale then you can buy it, simple as that. The police don't have the power to search your shopping bags or patrol shops dictating what you can/can't buy.

 

[CM]

Why should they do that? With a bit of an overlap, I think most people have a good impression of what they need vs. what they want. Most people who are debating these things are choosing to go to shops for things they want and using workarounds to justify it.

Can you put 3 balanced meals per day on the table and do you have enough sanitary and cleaning products? If so, you don't need to go to Tesco.

Also, if you need (through addiction) a packet of fags, it isn't an excuse to go to the big Tesco, just go to your local shop, it'll be quieter and you will save the big Tesco for those who need it.

For some people, the big Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys is their ONLY option. Not everyone has a small local shop near them.

 

[Hadders]

Where is this list of non-essential items ?
Both Cambridgeshire & Northamptonshire Police seem strangely reluctant to divulge details.

That's because no such list exists.

The law states what types of shops may continue to trade (e.g. Food retailers, including food markets, supermarkets, convenience stores, off-licences and corner shops; Pharmacies and drugstores; Newsagents; Homeware, building supplies and hardware stores).

There is no restriction on the goods these shops may or may not sell.

 

[bramling]

That's because no such list exists.

The law states what types of shops may continue to trade (e.g. Food retailers, including food markets, supermarkets, convenience stores, off-licences and corner shops; Pharmacies and drugstores; Newsagents; Homeware, building supplies and hardware stores).

There is no restriction on the goods these shops may or may not sell.

Personally I don't have a problem with people buying things which are on the margins of being essential, as long as they're doing it as part of their essential shopping rather than making a special journey to do it. Indeed, I'd probably prefer someone picked up a couple of bits to enable them to crack on with a minor DIY project in doors then going for a day out to the seaside. As long as people are careful to practice the social distancing and apply a level of self-restraint then there shouldn't be a major issue.

Having said that, I got more-or-less hounded out of Halfords in Stevenage some time before the lockdown came in - went in there looking for a bulb for the car (which I'd regard as a fairly essential purchase), pounced on almost immediately upon entering and told casual browsing - which wasn't what I was doing - wasn't permitted. Indeed she came well within 2 metres of me to make the point, which I didn't particularly appreciate. Having said that, again it's an example of how everyone's on edge at the moment so I didn't make a scene over it.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I saw a woman buying a big bag of compost in Tesco yesterday. Apart from the practical problem of how to scan it, should this be allowed - at all, or only if she promises to use it to grow vegetables? Surely this is no time for hanging baskets.

Compost has a lot more uses than for just hanging baskets.

During the lockdown, for those lucky enough to have a garden and have the time (now) to tend to it, I would argue that buying compost is an allowed item

 

[Darandio]

Compost has a lot more uses than for just hanging baskets.

During the lockdown, for those lucky enough to have a garden and have the time (now) to tend to it, I would argue that buying compost is an allowed item

You don't need to argue anything. If the store is selling it, you can buy it.

This whole trying to pick through what is essential and what isn't is becoming tedious now. If you are out doing your essential shop and that shop is selling something, you can buy it no question.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For some people, the big Tesco/Asda/Sainsburys is their ONLY option. Not everyone has a small local shop near them.

Of course those people should go to the "big Tesco" or whatever. But if they have a local shop, it would be better to go there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having said that, I got more-or-less hounded out of Halfords in Stevenage some time before the lockdown came in - went in there looking for a bulb for the car (which I'd regard as a fairly essential purchase), pounced on almost immediately upon entering and told casual browsing - which wasn't what I was doing - wasn't permitted. Indeed she came well within 2 metres of me to make the point, which I didn't particularly appreciate. Having said that, again it's an example of how everyone's on edge at the moment so I didn't make a scene over it.

In some cases this will be stress, in others it'll be people who aren't in "important" jobs who now have the chance to boss people about, and in others it'll be a bit of both. However I think it would have elicited a sarcastic response in me, to be honest, along the lines of "how do you expect me to buy a bulb so I can legally drive my car if I can't look to see which is the correct one?", or "Well, that's a good thing, but you can see that that's not what I'm doing", or somesuch.

 

[Hadders]

Personally I don't have a problem with people buying things which are on the margins of being essential, as long as they're doing it as part of their essential shopping rather than making a special journey to do it. Indeed, I'd probably prefer someone picked up a couple of bits to enable them to crack on with a minor DIY project in doors then going for a day out to the seaside. As long as people are careful to practice the social distancing and apply a level of self-restraint then there shouldn't be a major issue.

Having said that, I got more-or-less hounded out of Halfords in Stevenage some time before the lockdown came in - went in there looking for a bulb for the car (which I'd regard as a fairly essential purchase), pounced on almost immediately upon entering and told casual browsing - which wasn't what I was doing - wasn't permitted. Indeed she came well within 2 metres of me to make the point, which I didn't particularly appreciate. Having said that, again it's an example of how everyone's on edge at the moment so I didn't make a scene over it.

The message really is too complicated. Dare I say it we need something as memorable as 'see it, say it, sort it' to sum up what you can and can't do.

Compost has a lot more uses than for just hanging baskets.

During the lockdown, for those lucky enough to have a garden and have the time (now) to tend to it, I would argue that buying compost is an allowed item

Indeed, if too many restrictions are put on it simply encourages people to go out or socialise with other people. Far better for them to be in their gardens or carrying out some DIY while socially isolating.

 

[bramling]

In some cases this will be stress, in others it'll be people who aren't in "important" jobs who now have the chance to boss people about, and in others it'll be a bit of both. However I think it would have elicited a sarcastic response in me, to be honest, along the lines of "how do you expect me to buy a bulb so I can legally drive my car if I can't look to see which is the correct one?", or "Well, that's a good thing, but you can see that that's not what I'm doing", or somesuch.

I opted for the traditional British dirty look, nodded to acknowledge here and carried on with what I was doing anyway. Yes I think you're probably right, to be fair she did seem a little flustered so I think it was more stress than being awkward. This was during day on a weekday, so the store was hardly busy - indeed I think I was the only customer in there.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Of course those people should go to the "big Tesco" or whatever. But if they have a local shop, it would be better to go there.

Agree in principle but sometimes the local shops are more expensive and for those out of work unable to claim anything other than universal credit, the big supermarket might be the only option

Also, a local shop near me (whom I won't name) has upped its prices in an attempt to cash in on the coronavirus.

 

[bramling]

The message really is too complicated. Dare I say it we need something as memorable as 'see it, say it, sort it' to sum up what you can and can't do.



Indeed, if too many restrictions are put on it simply encourages people to go out or socialise with other people. Far better for them to be in their gardens or carrying out some DIY while socially isolating.

I do think some people are over-analysing things a little. I've been taking the line of "is it essential?" and "am I going out as infrequently as possible?". By combining these two notions to be honest I've barely been out at all since the lockdown came in besides for work or exercise. The only shops I've been in have been supermarket a handful of times and the local post office to renew car tax. Had I needed anything else I'd have done it on the way from or to work, but I simply haven't.

If I really wanted something like hardware or the like I'd combine it with another trip - I wouldn't make a special trip out to do it.

We have been itching to get an indian takeaway, but considering it would involve driving out to get it we've decided that's injudicious. Plus after a discussion at work the general consensus seems to be to avoid takeaways!

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have been itching to get an indian takeaway, but considering it would involve driving out to get it we've decided that's injudicious. Plus after a discussion at work the general consensus seems to be to avoid takeaways!

Why avoid takeaways? Order one from Deliveroo or Just Eat if you want one.

 

[Darandio]

We have been itching to get an indian takeaway, but considering it would involve driving out to get it we've decided that's injudicious. Plus after a discussion at work the general consensus seems to be to avoid takeaways!

Cannot agree with that, these people need our support as well. We'll be getting an Indian tonight. We pay online, the driver knocks on the door and walks away, no contact needed. It's just a case of following your usual hygiene steps when unpacking the cartons, the cooked food itself is fine.