European cities with ‘classic’ bus/tram still in service

[boiledbeans2]

As far as I know, Turin still has one or more ancient trams on one of its routes.

On Sundays, there is a special heritage tram route 7, with a tram every hour. Some photos can be found here:

GTT

www.gtt.to.it

Normal tram fares apply. Every Sunday, they run a different heritage tram.

Besides the heritage tram route, there are many Series 2800 trams running in regular service. They were originally built single car in the 1930s, and recosntructed to be articulated 2-cars in the 1950s. Some photos here:

TRAM SERIE 2800

 

[boiledbeans2]

Lisbon still has classic trams running [...]

Lisbon also has three funiculars which are worth visiting.

One example can be found here:

Ascensor da Glória - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The tram museum in Lisbon is also good. Part of it is static, while the other part is a live depot with heritage trams, which are ready to run anytime as they can be on private charters.

The tram museum in Brussels is also similar with part static and part live exhibits. One of the heritage trams goes out to run on the main tram line everyday (non-stopping at the regular stations), and the ride is included in the museum ticket.

 

[jumble]

I’m trying to plan a 2024 trip around European cities that have ‘classic’ trams or trolleybuses still in service (or even buses, but ‘classic’ buses are much rarer) that have their days numbered.

I often only find out that a classic type is being withdrawn after they have long gone, so I’m trying not to let that happen this year!

‘Classic’ of course means different things to different people, but I tend to mean types that are pre-millennium, and always like to track down a Tatra tram or a Skoda 14Tr / 15Tr trolleybus.

For example, I’m aware that the Woltersdorf Strassenbahn on the outskirts of Berlin will have their Gotha T57 trams imminently replaced by new Polish built types (EDIT: research suggests May/June 2024), and that Sarajevo will soon have new Swiss trams replacing most if not all of their Tatra trams (and imported Duewags). Poznan has 3 remaining 1960s Duewag trams which come out at peak times, and I can’t imagine will last much longer (EDIT: as of 1st March 2024, three Duewags still come out at peak times, and there are quite a few Konstals that come out too).
Vilnius still surprisingly has a large fleet of Skoda 14Tr types in operation, which I don’t think are due to be withdrawn soon. There are also a couple of 15Tr types still going.
Riga still has Tatra T3s in service too. Again, there doesn’t seem to be a plan to replace them yet.

Are there any other cities which will be worth visiting soon to make the most of classic types? Tatra trams and Skoda trolleybuses tend to be my favourite but I like most things from the 60s-90s era.

I have visited Prague, Brno (Tatras) and Bruxelles (PCCs) recently so probably will avoid that this year.

I have my eye on Kosice, Slovakia which I could tie in with Bratislava.

Do the Porto trams count?
They are heritage but are run by the Sociedade de Transportes Colectivos do Porto

 

[SeanG]

Have we mentioned Budapest - lots of older trams and we managed to get on a really old bus from Keleti station. I'm not a bus man myself but it was very old. I'm also not sure on the route - we just jumped on given that it was old

 

[P Binnersley]

Gotha, Germany, operates with nothing newer than 1990 according to the fleet list. I had a 1964 Duewag unit on the Thuringiawaldbahn line to Bad Tararz two years ago.

 

[duncombec]

Rome also has some fairly elderly vehicles - there is more info on the German and Italian wikipedia pages than the English native version, but those in the 7000-series date from 1948/9.

The Giardinetti "urban railway" also has some tram-like vehicles dating from 1926, but it appears this line is due for substantial upgrading to metro standards later this year (if not already), if I've understood correctly.

 

[alex397]

Have we mentioned Budapest - lots of older trams and we managed to get on a really old bus from Keleti station. I'm not a bus man myself but it was very old. I'm also not sure on the route - we just jumped on given that it was old

Out of interest, was it a trolleybus? They still had old Ikarus types running last spring (though I didn’t find out until I was on my way to the airport to get home!). Or if it was a bus, was it step entrance?

Gotha, Germany, operates with nothing newer than 1990 according to the fleet list. I had a 1964 Duewag unit on the Thuringiawaldbahn line to Bad Tararz two years ago.

I’m hopefully visiting Gotha next month. I’m staying in Leipzig for a couple of nights so will aim to get visit from there - just an hour away on an ICE train. I will try to get to another eastern German city as well. Maybe Erfurt or Zwickau.

 

[Ken H]

As far as I know, Turin still has one or more ancient trams on one of its routes.

(And there's always the Bakerloo Line in London.....)

The tram up to the superga basilica is 1920's stock. Rack. But considered a tram

 

[Ken H]

I think Brussels still runs PCC trams from the 50's and 60's

 

[SeanG]

Out of interest, was it a trolleybus? They still had old Ikarus types running last spring (though I didn’t find out until I was on my way to the airport to get home!). Or if it was a bus, was it step entrance?

I’m hopefully visiting Gotha next month. I’m staying in Leipzig for a couple of nights so will aim to get visit from there - just an hour away on an ICE train. I will try to get to another eastern German city as well. Maybe Erfurt or Zwickau.

It was a regular bus, full of diesel fumes inside to boot.
A fair few steps up to it, almost at coach level

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think Brussels still runs PCC trams from the 50's and 60's

There were still a few in December 2019, but we are talking nearly 4.5 years back now.

 

[TravellingTyke]

Vilnius has some old fashioned trams running about. Tallinn too, though that has already been mentioned above.

 

[alex397]

I think Brussels still runs PCC trams from the 50's and 60's

There were still a few in December 2019, but we are talking nearly 4.5 years back now.

Still plenty of PCC trams about, as I saw and travelled on plenty back in January. They are the full allocation on routes 39, 44, 51, 97

It was a regular bus, full of diesel fumes inside to boot.
A fair few steps up to it, almost at coach level

Potentially an Ikarus, an icon of the Eastern Bloc.

Vilnius has some old fashioned trams running about. Tallinn too, though that has already been mentioned above.

Think you may be thinking of Riga, as Vilnius doesn’t have a tram network!
Riga has lots of Tatras, and Vilnius does have a trolleybus system still with a large fleet of old Skodas.


So, I will be staying in Leipzig and Berlin to travel to Gotha, and some of the systems around Berlin, as well as maybe another city.
I will possibly be going to Potsdam on a Sunday. Does anyone know if any Tatra trams would be running on a Sunday? I suspect not but can’t find a definitive answer.

 

[SeanG]

Potentially an Ikarus, an icon of the Eastern Bloc.

Yes that was it. Thanks

 

[youngpete]

Bad Schandau has a vintage tramway operation, the Kirnitzschtalbahn utilising a mixture of old tramcars from various sources in Germany. https://www.rvsoe.de/verkehrsmittel/kirnitzschtalbahn

 

[alex397]

Well I’m currently in Leipzig. I spent an hour or so today observing the tram operations at the very busy Hauptbahnhof stop, as well as other main stops. This was on a weekday around 5pm, so full peak. Not a single Tatra to be found!
If they arn’t coming out at the busiest time of the day, I doubt they come out at all anymore.
I’ve seen various photos of Tatras in service in Leipzig during February-March 2024 on the transphoto.org website, so I had hoped I’d find some. I have found no definitive answer online about if they are fully withdrawn or not, but I do have a glimmer of hope I might get a ride in one - there are at least 3 parked up at the depot at Angerbrucke, but I presume they are now withdrawn?
Does anyone know where I might find a definitive answer? I was going to ask a driver who was on a smoke break at the depot, but I wasn’t quite confident enough!

 

[TravellingTyke]

Still plenty of PCC trams about, as I saw and travelled on plenty back in January. They are the full allocation on routes 39, 44, 51, 97


Potentially an Ikarus, an icon of the Eastern Bloc.

Think you may be thinking of Riga, as Vilnius doesn’t have a tram network!
Riga has lots of Tatras, and Vilnius does have a trolleybus system still with a large fleet of old Skodas.


So, I will be staying in Leipzig and Berlin to travel to Gotha, and some of the systems around Berlin, as well as maybe another city.
I will possibly be going to Potsdam on a Sunday. Does anyone know if any Tatra trams would be running on a Sunday? I suspect not but can’t find a definitive answer.

I must have been thinking of the trolleybuses when I mentioned Vilnius. I definitely wasn't thinking about Rīga, having just returned from Vilnius when I posted.

 

[railfan99]

On Sundays, there is a special heritage tram route 7, with a tram every hour. Some photos can be found here:

GTT

www.gtt.to.it

Normal tram fares apply. Every Sunday, they run a different heritage tram.

Besides the heritage tram route, there are many Series 2800 trams running in regular service. They were originally built single car in the 1930s, and recosntructed to be articulated 2-cars in the 1950s. Some photos here:

TRAM SERIE 2800

In October 2022, both were excellent vehicles on which to travel.

Turin seemed to lack the huge number of tourists we've encountered in Rome and Florence, but we weren't in Turin in peak season. I loved spending a small number of days there.

 

[BBF3]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but Zürich still has plenty of Tram 2000s (Be 4/6) knocking about, a design dating from the 1970s. They're gradually being replaced - I believe some are being exported to Ukraine - but they're still around in numbers.

 

[alex397]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but Zürich still has plenty of Tram 2000s (Be 4/6) knocking about, a design dating from the 1970s. They're gradually being replaced - I believe some are being exported to Ukraine - but they're still around in numbers.

Thanks for that, good to know.

Interestingly Gotha has a few be 4/8 types from 1979. They feel more modern than the 1990s Tatras they have! No doubt they have been refurbished, but the exterior design looks more modern too.
Talking about Gotha, I suspect it is one of the last German systems with guaranteed ‘old’ stock running.
I visited Zwickau where I expected most workings to be run by Tatras, when in fact there was just one working. A couple of lines are currently not running, and they were running on reduced Easter holiday timetables (not sure I’ve seen that before), so most workings could be run with their low floor type. Just a heads up in case anyone heads there.

With Leipzig, I’ve seen their peak hour operations for three days now and have not seen a single Tatra so it seems likely they don’t run anymore. Still haven’t seen any confirmation anywhere though. EDIT: I suspect I didn’t see any because it may have been a slightly reduced Easter holiday timetable, as I’ve seen pictures of Tatras in service from last week! Typical that I missed out on them.

 

[Zamracene749]

Have we mentioned Budapest - lots of older trams and we managed to get on a really old bus from Keleti station. I'm not a bus man myself but it was very old. I'm also not sure on the route - we just jumped on given that it was old

It will have been an Ikarus, either 260 or 280. All gone now sadly, since late last year. Even the 280Tr trolleys have been replaced. Still ancient Ganz trams on the 47/49, and Tatras on line 1 and the route up to the childrens railway, the nuimber of which I've forgotten.
Was in Olomouc two weeks ago, plenty of T3 action there still.
Also, in Brno, as well as the many T6 they have, they still put out the semi preserved 1973 Tatra K2 on peak hour services on the 10
Edit- [Images posted showing Brno trams, of the T6 and K2 variety at work last month]

 

[Sun Chariot]

Rome also has some fairly elderly vehicles.

Indeed - line 14 (which, conveniently, stops at Rome's railway terminus) still has some services operated by these 1948-49 era beauties.

 

[Adwy]

I’m trying to plan a 2024 trip around European cities that have ‘classic’ trams or trolleybuses still in service (or even buses, but ‘classic’ buses are much rarer) that have their days numbered.

I often only find out that a classic type is being withdrawn after they have long gone, so I’m trying not to let that happen this year!

‘Classic’ of course means different things to different people, but I tend to mean types that are pre-millennium, and always like to track down a Tatra tram or a Skoda 14Tr / 15Tr trolleybus.

For example, I’m aware that the Woltersdorf Strassenbahn on the outskirts of Berlin will have their Gotha T57 trams imminently replaced by new Polish built types (EDIT: research suggests May/June 2024), and that Sarajevo will soon have new Swiss trams replacing most if not all of their Tatra trams (and imported Duewags). Poznan has 3 remaining 1960s Duewag trams which come out at peak times, and I can’t imagine will last much longer (EDIT: as of 1st March 2024, three Duewags still come out at peak times, and there are quite a few Konstals that come out too).
Vilnius still surprisingly has a large fleet of Skoda 14Tr types in operation, which I don’t think are due to be withdrawn soon. There are also a couple of 15Tr types still going.
Riga still has Tatra T3s in service too. Again, there doesn’t seem to be a plan to replace them yet.

Are there any other cities which will be worth visiting soon to make the most of classic types? Tatra trams and Skoda trolleybuses tend to be my favourite but I like most things from the 60s-90s era.

I have visited Prague, Brno (Tatras) and Bruxelles (PCCs) recently so probably will avoid that this year.

I have my eye on Kosice, Slovakia which I could tie in with Bratislava.

Lisbon still has lots of old, and very busy, trams.
A joy to ride €3.10.

 

[alex397]

.

Was in Olomouc two weeks ago, plenty of T3 action there still.

Also, in Brno, as well as the many T6 they have, they still put out the semi preserved 1973 Tatra K2 on peak hour services on the 10
Edit- [Images posted showing Brno trams, of the T6 and K2 variety at work last month]

Looks like I’ve missed out again then! On my Feb trip this year, I only saw the K2 on driver training duties and not in service! For those unaware, the live tracking for Brno is excellent, giving full fleet details of what’s running - you can even select vehicle types to show on the map. Sadly the K2 did appear the whole time I was there.

Indeed - line 14 (which, conveniently, stops at Rome's railway terminus) still has some services operated by these 1948-49 era beauties.

Think I need to try and see a bit more of Italy to track down these old types!

Lisbon still has lots of old, and very busy, trams.
A joy to ride €3.10.

On my list to do one day. I’ve heard these trams are often impossible to get a ride on though with the hoards of tourists.

 

[zuriblue]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but Zürich still has plenty of Tram 2000s (Be 4/6) knocking about, a design dating from the 1970s. They're gradually being replaced - I believe some are being exported to Ukraine - but they're still around in numbers.

There is also a Museum line (21) from the Tram Museum at Burgwies using Heritage Stock on the last weekend of the month. The last time I rode it the line was extended to Oerlikon from Rehalp. Normal fares apply so if you have a zone 110 ticket it’s good for the museum tram as well.

The museum at Burgwies is well worth a visit, take tram 11.