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Eurostar London - Amsterdam suspended until 2028? Is this just clickbait?

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coppercapped

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French citizens are not *required* to carry along identification documents and possessing a national identity card is not mandatory.

But in practice, it is difficult or even impossible to carry out many acts of life without a national identity card or a passport (such as taking an official exam or opening a bank account).
In the eight years I lived and worked in France I never met a Frenchman, or woman, who did not have a Carte national d'Identité. While I understand that having a Carte National d'Identité is not 'compulsory' it is compulsory for everybody (above the age of, I think, sixteen) to possess some form of valid government-issued identity document.

In my case both my wife and I had a Residence Permit - which is a bit of a joke because apparently the EEC/EU permits free movement so the Residence Permit is automatically issued to citizens of the member states, but at a cost in time queuing in the office and cash - valid for ten years. We were strongly advised to carry it with us at all times.

Added in edit as a result of @Austriantrain's post above: When I lived in Germany in the seventies and early eighties I had to register my address and details at the Einwohnermeldeamt in the town. For identity purposes my German issue driving licence was sufficient and ideally my UK passport as well. It was all more laid back than France but I suspect that things have changed since then as the ID card is no longer a little book but a machine readable credit card sized bit of plastic.
 
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SHD

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I assure you it is not legally *compulsory* for a French citizen irrespective of age to have a valid government-issued ID but life is so difficult without it that it is practically compulsory to get one. Hence I am not surprised that you never met a person without a carte d’identité!

And it is certainly permitted (for a French citizen) to step out of one’s house without carrying an identity card of a passport.
 

rvdborgt

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In my case both my wife and I had a Residence Permit - which is a bit of a joke because apparently the EEC/EU permits free movement so the Residence Permit is automatically issued to citizens of the member states, but at a cost in time queuing in the office and cash - valid for ten years. We were strongly advised to carry it with us at all times.
For foreigners living in Belgium, it also used to be mandatory to pay for a residence permit (at the time, these were greenish cardboard cards that would just about last for 5 years; later an electronic version, very similar to the Belgian ID card) - until the EC said that Belgium couldn't make EU citizens pay for it. Since then, you can opt not to buy one and then you get a free A4 sheet with your photo, your data and a stamp on it.
 

AlbertBeale

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I don't think the bit in bold logically follows. Surely there are already countries inside the Schengen zone which don't require carrying ID or registering your whereabouts with the authorities? So from the Schengen point of view having the UK inside wouldn't present any new problem. The problem would be for Brits who could then travel into the rest of the zone without ID (given the lack or legal requirement for it here and the lack of internal Schengen automatic border checks) who'd then be caught out if in a country that could demand ID.

Name me one or two.

Well - ID cards are issued in Italy, but it's not compulsory to carry one around with you.

Everyone in Germany has to have a card, but doesn't have to carry it around.

Austria issues ID cards but having one is not compulsory, let along carrying it round to show on demand.


French citizens are not *required* to carry along identification documents and possessing a national identity card is not mandatory.

But in practice, it is difficult or even impossible to carry out many acts of life without a national identity card or a passport (such as taking an official exam or opening a bank account).

Some activities are getting more difficult to undertake in the UK without showing some photo ID (most commonly a passport of driving licence if you have them). However, given compulsory ID cards aren't "a thing" here, it's ultimately difficult for an organisation to insist on them. I have, for example, in the past been told to present photo ID to open a bank account and to stand for election to a public body; in both cases I refused, on the grounds that it cannot be assumed that people have such things, given it's not legally required. In both cases there was a lot of argy-bargy for a period of time (some weeks in one case) - but in both instances I was eventually allowed to go ahead without such ID.

I think that one of the reasons that an attempt to bring in compulsory ID cards in the UK, early this century, was unsuccessful was because of the tens of thousands of people who signed a pledge to non-co-operate with the system if it was introduced; significant open defiance would have made the plan unworkable. Indeed, after ID cards were introduced here during the Second World War, but not scrapped at the end of the war, they were subsequently abolished precisely because, with the perceived need for them having ended, people started refusing to show them. A prosecution of someone who refused was the catalyst for their abolition.

I guess many people simply see such things as ID cards as "rather un-British"....
 

Fragezeichnen

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Well - ID cards are issued in Italy, but it's not compulsory to carry one around with you.

Everyone in Germany has to have a card, but doesn't have to carry it around.

Austria issues ID cards but having one is not compulsory, let along carrying it round to show on demand.

The important part is not the ID cards, it is the lack of address registration.

From the european perspective, it's absolutely crazy that the UK government doesn't have a clue who is resident in Britain or where they live. At best they can try and guess based on tax, driving license and electoral records, but there is no requirement to participate in any of those systems.
 

Grumbler

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Well, actually it's perfectly easy to get into the UK with no documentation at all. Just pay traffickers to cross the channel in a dinghy, claim asylum, and you'll be given free board and lodging with pocket money as a bonus. You might even get a trip to Rwanda as well!
 

RT4038

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Well, actually it's perfectly easy to get into the UK with no documentation at all. Just pay traffickers to cross the channel in a dinghy, claim asylum, and you'll be given free board and lodging with pocket money as a bonus. You might even get a trip to Rwanda as well!
I would hardly describe that route as 'perfectly easy'? There will be loopholes in any immigration system, in any country - not that this should be any excuse not to have the system as tight as possible.
 

Cowley

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We feel that the question was long ago answered and we seem to be drifting away from the subject now.

Thanks for your contributions everyone.
 

DanielB

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Good news: a solution has been found for the Amsterdam Eurostar services during reconstruction works at Amsterdam Central. The Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool published the following today:

The trains to London will continue to start at Amsterdam Central: the terminal with customs facilities will be moved from platform 15 to the Amstelpassage, one of the five tunnels underneath the tracks.
By using the Amstelpassage the problems caused by the location of the current terminal being required as construction site for the reconstruction of the station will be solved.

NS states the Amstelpassage offers significant benefits. Currently the amount of London bound passengers from Amsterdam is limited to 250, the maximum capacity of the relatively small terminal on the platform. In the new terminal this will be increased to 600.
According to NS the new terminal should be accessible from the middle tunnel. After passing the security- and customs facilities, the terminal should give direct access to the platforms where Eurostar departs from. The exact moment at which the current terminal needs to be closed and the new terminal can be opened is yet to be determined.
 

AdamWW

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Good news: a solution has been found for the Amsterdam Eurostar services during reconstruction works at Amsterdam Central. The Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool published the following today:

I'm not sure what they'd do with 600 passengers for one train though, unless they start using the full length of the train (and close off the whole platform) rather than leaving half for passengers boarding in Brussels.
 

AdamWW

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They're stopping selling tickets from Amsterdam to Brussels aren't they?

I believe so. Half the train runs empty, presumably with doors locked as only part of the platforms at Amsterdam and Rotterdam are secured, and is then available for passengers boarding in Brussels.

To use all the train, they'd have to secure an entire platform in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and I don't think that's possible with the current set-up.
 

popeter45

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I believe so. Half the train runs empty, presumably with doors locked as only part of the platforms at Amsterdam and Rotterdam are secured, and is then available for passengers boarding in Brussels.

To use all the train, they'd have to secure an entire platform in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and I don't think that's possible with the current set-up.
depends on what the new setup at amsterdam will be, if they can close the entire platform or at least the other half compared to rotterdam could open the entire train to dutch-london travel
 

DanielB

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It will not really be an issue to close the entire platform in Rotterdam. Two more entrances to guard, but platform 2 is not used that much anyway.
 

AdamWW

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It will not really be an issue to close the entire platform in Rotterdam. Two more entrances to guard, but platform 2 is not used that much anyway.

When I caught the Eurostar from Amsterdam they were using the other end for a Thalys train not that long before the Eurostar went out so shutting the whole platform might cause problems.

If I remember correctly, all the accesses to the platform are on the non secure end so at the moment all they have to do is shut the gate to the secure end make sure nobody gets past it - using the whole platform would require blocking off accesses - which I'm sure could be done but wouldn't be as convenient as at present.

Then again I don't know how they will get people from the new "lounge" area up to the platform anyway.
 

DanielB

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If I remember correctly, all the accesses to the platform are on the non secure end so at the moment all they have to do is shut the gate to the secure end make sure nobody gets past it - using the whole platform would require blocking off accesses - which I'm sure could be done but wouldn't be as convenient as at present.
Amsterdam Centraal indeed has the disadvantage of the many entrances to the platform. Took a while to find photos of the location of the gate, but actually platform 15 has an entrance from the most eastern tunnel which is within the secure area. And I believe platform 15 is even used by ProRail employees to get to the local traffic control center next to Amsterdam Central.
Then again I don't know how they will get people from the new "lounge" area up to the platform anyway.
Probably by adding a set of escalators. I believe the eastern tunnel is to be rebuilt anyway making it wider and adding additional entrances to the platforms. So they might do something like entering from the middle tunnel, then passing through the terminal in the Amstelpassage and exiting again via the eastern tunnel? That just would require a small secure area in the eastern tunnel to get to new escalators.

It's said platform 15 will continue to exist until Amsterdam Zuid is ready to receive international trains. So in the rebuild there will be some phase in which there's only one track between the widened platform 13/14 and platform 15. That would enable using platform 15 exclusively for Eurostar, with prior international departures from the same track boarding from platform 14.
 

Bemined

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Platform 15 will be shared with Thalys trains, but as these two services run in a 30 minute interval there should be plenty of time to sweep the full platform after the Thalys departed. Return trips will use platform 8b and will then run empty to the depot where trains will be checked again before returning to London.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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This is good news, am I correct in assuming tat Eurostar London Services will use platform 15 / Amstelpassage, not only during the reconstruction at Amsterdam Centraal but also will remain there after reconstruction, or will it and Thalys then move over to Amsfetrdam Zuid ?
 

AdamWW

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This is good news, am I correct in assuming tat Eurostar London Services will use platform 15 / Amstelpassage, not only during the reconstruction at Amsterdam Centraal but also will remain there after reconstruction, or will it and Thalys then move over to Amsfetrdam Zuid ?
I think all international services move to Zuid.
 

Bemined

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As far as I know that is still the plan yes, but as the extra platform at Amsterdam Zuid has been delayed quite a bit the Thalys and Eurostar will continue to run from Amsterdam Central after the reconstruction for at least a couple of years.
 

MarkyT

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They're stopping selling tickets from Amsterdam to Brussels aren't they?
Seeing as Thalys is the same company as Eurostar now there's little point in offering competitive fares. Plausibly, Thalys could nonetheless still offer their normal fares to Schengen passengers and allocate them to seats on the London trains where security arrangements allowed that.
 

Trainbike46

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Seeing as Thalys is the same company as Eurostar now there's little point in offering competitive fares. Plausibly, Thalys could nonetheless still offer their normal fares to Schengen passengers and allocate them to seats on the London trains where security arrangements allowed that.
The reason they stopped selling the brussels tickets is because it allows them to schedule a shorter stop in Brussels, and because (in the future) it will allow them to sell more tickets from Amsterdam/rotterdam to london
 

MarkyT

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The reason they stopped selling the brussels tickets is because it allows them to schedule a shorter stop in Brussels, and because (in the future) it will allow them to sell more tickets from Amsterdam/rotterdam to london
Which they will have the capacity to do with the new facilities described at Centraal I assume.
 

popeter45

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Thats a very long shut down! Will there be road coaches provided for Amsterdam passengers? I certainly would hope so. Where will the train terminate in the interim?
as already stated here new plan is a new terminal in one of the underpasseages so no shutdown in service

also do the plans looks like closing the entire Amstelpassage and its shops to make this or just using a few shop spaces?
 

DanielB

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also do the plans looks like closing the entire Amstelpassage and its shops to make this or just using a few shop spaces?
Haven't seen any detailed plans yet, though they should have an idea how it's going to look like as they already now what the capacity will be.
The choice for the Amstelpassage was made as this tunnel is suffering from lack of passers by: most shops have already closed due to lack of customers. Only some outlet stores are left.
 

riceuten

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Thanks for pointing this out. The security arrangements for E* verge on the absurd (considering longer rail tunnels are being operated without security checks), as do the UK border requirements (on the paranoid).

The latter goes down well with the core vote. The former I find completely unprofessional and, if I recall, has been outsourced to a private company. I remember one of their number trying to confiscate a shortwave radio from me as it was "not allowed" on the train.
 
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