Eurostar St Pancras - is bedlam normal?

[AlbertBeale]

Not always in Paris, it is normally to hold the train rather then put the passengers on the one afterwards. In the past year Gare Du Nord has added new scanners, is more likely to have them all open. This was the biggest bottle neck to me, but they have done a lot of work to fix it. I don't know anyone ever miss their booked trian because of delays getting into the station, but I have personally had delayed trains departing waiting for people to get through. If you were in the queue at T-30 you were getting on your trian and it would wait for you.

Do you mean the queue for the ticket gate, or the queue for processing having gone through the ticket gate?

 

[Failed Unit]

Do you mean the queue for the ticket gate, or the queue for processing having gone through the ticket gate?

The queue for the ticket gate, in paris the put the rope over any anyone ahead of the rope in my experience gets onl

 

[AlbertBeale]

The queue for the ticket gate, in paris the put the rope over any anyone ahead of the rope in my experience gets onl

Excellent - thanks.

 

[Trainbike46]

Same in London, if you're in the queue for the ticket gate at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure time, you will make it through, usually with more than enough time remaining. On every occasion where there was chaos I experienced they held the train till everyone was through. They also move people forward in the queue at times

 

[AlbertBeale]

Same in London, if you're in the queue for the ticket gate at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure time, you will make it through, usually with more than enough time remaining. On every occasion where there was chaos I experienced they held the train till everyone was through. They also move people forward in the queue at times

My latest experience: booked on the 9am(ish) service to Brussels, ie a busy time at StP though just past the worst. I entered the Eurostar area barely more than 10 minutes before the 30-minute ticket gate deadline; the place was intimidatingly full. I asked the first staff person I saw for information on the queuing and I'm immediately directed round to a dedicated queue entrance for my service. The separate queue - to a pair of gates just for this queue - gets me in within a few minutes of getting to the station. But in the cramped space inside, with (by now) the whole of my trainload, plus what looks like a large proportion of the Paris service half an hour later (who've gone through the ticket gates more than an hour ahead of their departure), everyone is moving very slowly. After the reasonably quick baggage check (I remember that my belt never seems to trouble the machinery these days), everything is at a crawl. After a while my train then starts boarding, and I've quite a way to go - in a barely-moving queue - to the last stage of the passport checks (though I don't worry, since at that stage it's not my problem, given I don't have a time-specific onward connection from Brussels...). After a while, a guy with a little sign starts battling through the passport queues trying to round up anyone for my Brussels train; we're all (rather confusingly) walked through/across another queue, and end up at a separate manual passport booth (I went nowhere near any automatic gate that morning). I tag on to the people heading up to the platform and get to the right carriage with time to spare.

Lessons seem to be: the current St P situation with current passenger levels is just about viable; it would be more so if fewer people turned up more than an hour ahead of their departure; it relies on efficient separation of queues in the waiting area prior to the ticket gates. The melee inside would be much improved if the passport checks area had clearly designated separate queues for different trains so that, at any time, most gatelines were allocated specifically for the next departure, with allocations gradually changing to the following train as it became possible without risking the boarding of the pending departure. But to enable people to filter into labelled passport queues would require more slack space after the baggage check and before the passport checks. And this would be helped by an extra holding area at that point in the system (or by people not arriving so long before their train!).

When I returned from Brussels, on the last evening service, the Brussels check-in area, as seen from the concourse, was largely deserted (as it often is) 25 minutes or so before the ticket check-in deadline (ie 55 minutes before the train departure). Presumably because most people had already arrived and gone through the system. After a trip to a chip-purveyor, I returned to the Channel check-in area 10 minutes later to find there were now as many as a few dozen people ahead of me in the system. From walking into the "Channel terminal" from the main station concourse, navigating the ticket gates, baggage check, both passport checks, and the awful duty-free zone, to getting to the seats in the waiting area, took about 7 minutes for the lot. About a minute of that was spent zig-zagging up and down between empty queuing barriers, and another minute or two was wasted because, for the first time in ages, my belt triggered the scanning gates - so I lost time being ticked off by the security and by subsequently needing, in an undignified fashion, to try to put my belt on with one hand while holding up my trousers with the other hand!

 

[Taunton]

The disorganisation seems to vary by time of day, hence different people having different experiences.

Early departures seem the worst. A significant part of this is staffing arrangements, security and check-in staff being paid night rate for the full shift if they have to report before 0600, so only a minimal one or two are on hand before this time. Meanwhile passengers for the early departures are all told to get there by this time, to find most of the facilities not yet staffed. It seems to take a couple of hours for the resulting queues to be overcome.

Changes to the arrangements also mean there is far more waiting around. Believe it or not, when Eurostar first opened at Waterloo it was 15 minutes check-in. After quite some years this was suddenly increased to 30 minutes (coinciding to the month with the opening of the first stage of HS1, which cut 15 minutes off the journey time, and thus completely negating the investment). Now passengers are told 60 to 90 minutes. However the waiting area is still sized as originally designed, yet has to hold far more passengers, which it can't do, hence all the delayed queueing even outside into the main station.

 

[peteb]

It's a shame that once through the security machines you cannot just go up to platform level as that would ease congestion immeasurably. Probably they corral people downstairs to avoid chaos if a train is re-platformed. In contrast whilst all high speed services in Spain involve a security machine, at Madrid Atocha there's a large "secure" area with cafes and seating, so much nicer than St Pancras.....agree with comments about arrive less than 60 mins more than 30 mins before departure then you can enjoy the facilities outside the secure zone at St Pancras

 

[Fiyero]

Just had a look at streetview (from 2012) and there are no tensa-barriers at check-in. Was it really that much of a simpler time?

 

[infobleep]

My latest experience: booked on the 9am(ish) service to Brussels, ie a busy time at StP though just past the worst. I entered the Eurostar area barely more than 10 minutes before the 30-minute ticket gate deadline; the place was intimidatingly full. I asked the first staff person I saw for information on the queuing and I'm immediately directed round to a dedicated queue entrance for my service. The separate queue - to a pair of gates just for this queue - gets me in within a few minutes of getting to the station. But in the cramped space inside, with (by now) the whole of my trainload, plus what looks like a large proportion of the Paris service half an hour later (who've gone through the ticket gates more than an hour ahead of their departure), everyone is moving very slowly. After the reasonably quick baggage check (I remember that my belt never seems to trouble the machinery these days), everything is at a crawl. After a while my train then starts boarding, and I've quite a way to go - in a barely-moving queue - to the last stage of the passport checks (though I don't worry, since at that stage it's not my problem, given I don't have a time-specific onward connection from Brussels...). After a while, a guy with a little sign starts battling through the passport queues trying to round up anyone for my Brussels train; we're all (rather confusingly) walked through/across another queue, and end up at a separate manual passport booth (I went nowhere near any automatic gate that morning). I tag on to the people heading up to the platform and get to the right carriage with time to spare.

Lessons seem to be: the current St P situation with current passenger levels is just about viable; it would be more so if fewer people turned up more than an hour ahead of their departure; it relies on efficient separation of queues in the waiting area prior to the ticket gates. The melee inside would be much improved if the passport checks area had clearly designated separate queues for different trains so that, at any time, most gatelines were allocated specifically for the next departure, with allocations gradually changing to the following train as it became possible without risking the boarding of the pending departure. But to enable people to filter into labelled passport queues would require more slack space after the baggage check and before the passport checks. And this would be helped by an extra holding area at that point in the system (or by people not arriving so long before their train!).

When I returned from Brussels, on the last evening service, the Brussels check-in area, as seen from the concourse, was largely deserted (as it often is) 25 minutes or so before the ticket check-in deadline (ie 55 minutes before the train departure). Presumably because most people had already arrived and gone through the system. After a trip to a chip-purveyor, I returned to the Channel check-in area 10 minutes later to find there were now as many as a few dozen people ahead of me in the system. From walking into the "Channel terminal" from the main station concourse, navigating the ticket gates, baggage check, both passport checks, and the awful duty-free zone, to getting to the seats in the waiting area, took about 7 minutes for the lot. About a minute of that was spent zig-zagging up and down between empty queuing barriers, and another minute or two was wasted because, for the first time in ages, my belt triggered the scanning gates - so I lost time being ticked off by the security and by subsequently needing, in an undignified fashion, to try to put my belt on with one hand while holding up my trousers with the other hand!

What day was this?

My last experience was on Thursday 29 February. I arrived before 06:00 for the 07:04 to Brussels. I was going to Lille.

I got off a bus at 05:48, which stopped near the closest entrance to the departures area. Lucky me.

I was through security in 13 minutes from leaving the bus stop.

Slightly disappointed there was no separate checking in for EU citizens. I now have an Irish passport. I got one as my UK passport had run out. Whilst sorting this out, I found out I was already an Irish citizen, as one of my parents was born in Ireland and I was born before 2006. Just that officials in Ireland didn't know I was. I digress.

I was staying with a friend in north London and had got the early train because at the time I was booking, it was much cheaper.

They followed, with another friend, on the 09:04 and said it was very busy at security by then.

I would get the earlier train from home in future but there isn't an early enough train from Guildford to get me there. The earliest is the 05:14, with a change at Woking. There use to be an earlier one but now it starts from Working and if the coaching stock is in Guildford, as I believe it often is, it runs ECS. Instead there is a post midnight service from London Waterloo to Guildford and I would rather than than the early morning one, so I'm not complaining here.

Still prefer the train to the plane but usually plane is faster and for short breaks, I do that

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Anyone have any experience getting the 0616 to Amsterdam? What are the queues like to board this train from StP? Considering booking this, as all cheap fares seem to be for this time and the timing would allow me to return to London on the same day (kinda fancy a daytrip to Rotterdam) on time for the last train back up (almost) home to Preston. However, the only possible way I could catch this in the first place would be to get an overnight coach from Manchester arriving into Victoria at 2am, followed by a night bus up to St Pancras.

 

[AlbertBeale]

My latest experience: booked on the 9am(ish) service to Brussels, ie a busy time at StP though just past the worst. I entered the Eurostar area barely more than 10 minutes before the 30-minute ticket gate deadline; the place was intimidatingly full. I asked the first staff person I saw for information on the queuing and I'm immediately directed round to a dedicated queue entrance for my service. The separate queue - to a pair of gates just for this queue - gets me in within a few minutes of getting to the station. But in the cramped space inside, with (by now) the whole of my trainload, plus what looks like a large proportion of the Paris service half an hour later (who've gone through the ticket gates more than an hour ahead of their departure), everyone is moving very slowly. After the reasonably quick baggage check (I remember that my belt never seems to trouble the machinery these days), everything is at a crawl. After a while my train then starts boarding, and I've quite a way to go - in a barely-moving queue - to the last stage of the passport checks (though I don't worry, since at that stage it's not my problem, given I don't have a time-specific onward connection from Brussels...). After a while, a guy with a little sign starts battling through the passport queues trying to round up anyone for my Brussels train; we're all (rather confusingly) walked through/across another queue, and end up at a separate manual passport booth (I went nowhere near any automatic gate that morning). I tag on to the people heading up to the platform and get to the right carriage with time to spare.

Lessons seem to be: the current St P situation with current passenger levels is just about viable; it would be more so if fewer people turned up more than an hour ahead of their departure; it relies on efficient separation of queues in the waiting area prior to the ticket gates. The melee inside would be much improved if the passport checks area had clearly designated separate queues for different trains so that, at any time, most gatelines were allocated specifically for the next departure, with allocations gradually changing to the following train as it became possible without risking the boarding of the pending departure. But to enable people to filter into labelled passport queues would require more slack space after the baggage check and before the passport checks. And this would be helped by an extra holding area at that point in the system (or by people not arriving so long before their train!).

When I returned from Brussels, on the last evening service, the Brussels check-in area, as seen from the concourse, was largely deserted (as it often is) 25 minutes or so before the ticket check-in deadline (ie 55 minutes before the train departure). Presumably because most people had already arrived and gone through the system. After a trip to a chip-purveyor, I returned to the Channel check-in area 10 minutes later to find there were now as many as a few dozen people ahead of me in the system. From walking into the "Channel terminal" from the main station concourse, navigating the ticket gates, baggage check, both passport checks, and the awful duty-free zone, to getting to the seats in the waiting area, took about 7 minutes for the lot. About a minute of that was spent zig-zagging up and down between empty queuing barriers, and another minute or two was wasted because, for the first time in ages, my belt triggered the scanning gates - so I lost time being ticked off by the security and by subsequently needing, in an undignified fashion, to try to put my belt on with one hand while holding up my trousers with the other hand!

What day was this?

StP to Brussels was a Saturday morning; the return was a mid-week evening.

 

[TFN]

Anyone have any experience getting the 0616 to Amsterdam? What are the queues like to board this train from StP? Considering booking this, as all cheap fares seem to be for this time and the timing would allow me to return to London on the same day (kinda fancy a daytrip to Rotterdam) on time for the last train back up (almost) home to Preston. However, the only possible way I could catch this in the first place would be to get an overnight coach from Manchester arriving into Victoria at 2am, followed by a night bus up to St Pancras.

I get this train regularly, 45-60 mins before departure is completely fine.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was lucky enough to go to Paris for a week and have just returned. I travelled out on the 09:31 on 21/01 and got to St Pancras at 08:10. I thought that would give me plenty of time to stop at the café for a coffee and croissant to set me up for my day.
It took an hour to get to the waiting area, barked at through all the queues to move up, move on, move. Nearly had a panic attack as I still like personal space! The actual checks didn't really seem to take longer than normal and there weren't delayed trains ahead of us or anything like that! By the time I got through there was only time to grab a bottle of Coke and find my seat. They did delay the train to allow everyone to get through.

Is this normal now? It never used to take that long I'm sure (excluding when there is disruption). I have booked again for September and it is putting me off! The way back was busier than I am used to but managed so much better (I know Paris Eurostar has the benefit of less destinations).

It varies. September 2022 was exactly as you describe but April 2023 was very relaxed. Similar time of day so not sure what causes the difference.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

I get this train regularly, 45-60 mins before departure is completely fine.

Ah fairs, so if I got to StP by 3am (whenever the night bus from Victoria arrives) I could probably chill in Starbucks (or anywhere else in StP that's open 24/7) for 2 hours before getting into Eurostar check-in?

 

[Nunners]

Ah fairs, so if I got to StP by 3am (whenever the night bus from Victoria arrives) I could probably chill in Starbucks (or anywhere else in StP that's open 24/7) for 2 hours before getting into Eurostar check-in?

The maccies next to Kings Cross is open 24/7 if that helps

 

[Ayman Ilham]

How is the 1104 departure to Amsterdam and the 1301 departure to Brussels? Those are likely to be the ones I'd aim for if I used an Interrail Global pass instead.

 

[Tester]

How is the 1104 departure to Amsterdam and the 1301 departure to Brussels? Those are likely to be the ones I'd aim for if I used an Interrail Global pass instead.

I'm on the 1104 tomorrow - I'll let you know!

 

[30907]

How is the 1104 departure to Amsterdam and the 1301 departure to Brussels? Those are likely to be the ones I'd aim for if I used an Interrail Global pass instead.

For the 1301 on a Friday (which is when I have to travel) I would aim to join the checkin queue at most an hour ahead. I imagine the 1104 would be similar.
The Paris service is 1/2 hour before and fills the lounge until boarding at 12.10.

 

[Flying Snail]

I was on the 11.04 a few weeks ago. Entered the queue about 45 min ahead, it was long but not crazy, ended up nearly last on board as the staff kept juggling the lines inside security and I ended up behind a bunch of yanks who took a long time with the French immigration. Still got on well before departure.

 

[Tester]

I'm on the 1104 tomorrow - I'll let you know!

One of my better Eurostar check ins.

No queueing outside the check in entrance and average queuing inside. Started the process about an hour before and all comfortable. Could easily have been less.

If only it was always like that!

 

[Peterthegreat]

The disorganisation seems to vary by time of day, hence different people having different experiences.

Early departures seem the worst. A significant part of this is staffing arrangements, security and check-in staff being paid night rate for the full shift if they have to report before 0600, so only a minimal one or two are on hand before this time. Meanwhile passengers for the early departures are all told to get there by this time, to find most of the facilities not yet staffed. It seems to take a couple of hours for the resulting queues to be overcome.

Changes to the arrangements also mean there is far more waiting around. Believe it or not, when Eurostar first opened at Waterloo it was 15 minutes check-in. After quite some years this was suddenly increased to 30 minutes (coinciding to the month with the opening of the first stage of HS1, which cut 15 minutes off the journey time, and thus completely negating the investment). Now passengers are told 60 to 90 minutes. However the waiting area is still sized as originally designed, yet has to hold far more passengers, which it can't do, hence all the delayed queueing even outside into the main station.

Standard check in time at all Eurostar stations was 20 minutes initially. This was raised to 30 minutes in the aftermath of 9/11 when profiling ceased and everyone's luggage was scanned.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's a shame that once through the security machines you cannot just go up to platform level as that would ease congestion immeasurably. Probably they corral people downstairs to avoid chaos if a train is re-platformed.

I suspect it's a mixture of reasons why they avoid that. One them probably is to avoid chaos if they have to re-platform but the main factor I suspect is ensuring that they can get the trains cleaned, restocked and security swept without dodging passengers (trains at Kings Cross for instance won't be announced until fifteen/twenty minutes before departure, though you can actually get the platforms beforehand if you use RTT or similar).

 

[nw1]

How is the 1104 departure to Amsterdam and the 1301 departure to Brussels? Those are likely to be the ones I'd aim for if I used an Interrail Global pass instead.

As an aside, it sounds like there are quite a few Amsterdam departures these days, I've seen 0616, 0816, 1104 mentioned - is that correct?

 

[Trainbike46]

As an aside, it sounds like there are quite a few Amsterdam departures these days, I've seen 0616, 0816, 1104 mentioned - is that correct?

There is also an 18:04 - so four a day currently

There was talk of a 5th daily departure, but that is likely not happening until after the construction work in Amsterdam that will end direct departures for 6 months is over

 

[Taunton]

I suspect it's a mixture of reasons why they avoid that. One them probably is to avoid chaos if they have to re-platform but the main factor I suspect is ensuring that they can get the trains cleaned, restocked and security swept without dodging passengers (trains at Kings Cross for instance won't be announced until fifteen/twenty minutes before departure, though you can actually get the platforms beforehand if you use RTT or similar).

Very few Eurostar trains make anything like a quick turnround. Upwards of an hour seems typical, plus at the top congestion time, early in the morning, they all seem to be coming from the Stratford depot anyway. As a number do later in the day.

As ever nowadays there seems a desire to have all the staff in place at terminal stations before one passenger is allowed to board. The fact that I'm not aware of a single incident ever happening from boarding passengers in advance, either in the past or on terminating trains at through stations like Leeds or Newcastle seems by-the-by. And the last time I boarded Eurostar at St Pancras they were still getting round to the restocking as all the passengers boarded anyway.

 

[ainsworth74]

Very few Eurostar trains make anything like a quick turnround. Upwards of an hour seems typical, plus at the top congestion time, early in the morning, they all seem to be coming from the Stratford depot anyway. As a number do later in the day.

As ever nowadays there seems a desire to have all the staff in place at terminal stations before one passenger is allowed to board. The fact that I'm not aware of a single incident ever happening from boarding passengers in advance, either in the past or on terminating trains at through stations like Leeds or Newcastle seems by-the-by. And the last time I boarded Eurostar at St Pancras they were still getting round to the restocking as all the passengers boarded anyway.

Indeed, I don't intend to suggest anything positive about Eurostar's arrangements at St Pancras. But I suspect that does remain part of the answer why they keep you in the departure lounge whether it's a reasonable or not.

 

[30907]

Very few Eurostar trains make anything like a quick turnround. Upwards of an hour seems typical, plus at the top congestion time, early in the morning, they all seem to be coming from the Stratford depot anyway. As a number do later in the day.

ES are forever doing set swaps (from limited experience) cutting turnrounds to an hour, and the security sweep has to be done (I presume) when the train is empty. neither helps!

 

[Trainbike46]

Also, AIUI you can't have arriving and departing passengers on the same island at the same time - which does complicate matters a bit

 

[Fiyero]

ES are forever doing set swaps (from limited experience) cutting turnrounds to an hour, and the security sweep has to be done (I presume) when the train is empty. neither helps!

That's giving me flashbacks of a previous trip. Checkin not open while they did a set-swap. At the gates all issued new seats (I went to a staff member as needed forward facing and they sorted it). Held in departures for ages then another set swap back to our original class of train so original seats applied! Chaos getting on as people weren't sure what carriage etc...