Eurostar St Pancras - is bedlam normal?

[Snow1964]

I try to arrive at the point Eurostar say I should arrive, whilst also allowing for the possibility of trains being delayed on route to Euston.

That is part of the problem, the inward connections to St Pancras can be unreliable, or slightly late, and if coming from any sort of distance might only have hourly train.

Rather screws up the idea should only arrive in a 30-45 minute window, because proportion are stuck with 40-80 minute before. So St Pancras needs better method of coping with those who are bit early than leaving them snaking around waiting for opening, and employing people to shout at them. They should just accept that say 30% will be early and open facilities earlier to deal with it. A lounge is for waiting, make it suitable.

The alternative is need a quick and easily way (and at no cost) of moving people's bookings to next train if an inward train to any London terminus is late, to avoid people building in connection delay margin. This seems much more complicated option to me.

 

[RT4038]

The alternative is need a quick and easily way (and at no cost) of moving people's bookings to next train if an inward train to any London terminus is late, to avoid people building in connection delay margin.

I doubt that would be anything than a minor relief to the problem. On busy days, when the queues will be at their worst, the next (and possibly subsequent) train may well be fully booked. Additionally, such passengers may have onward journeys that would become a problem. I expect the cost of setting up a 'quick and easy way' would be out of proportion to any relief that this may give.

Human nature to arrive early is not going to be overcome by such uncertainty.

 

[BahrainLad]

Signing up for iProov helps. The queue is normally non-existent.

 

[geoffk]

I travelled to Brussels at 07.04 on Wednesday 15th May and returned on the 14.52 a week later. The tour leader asked us to meet at St. Pancras at 06.00 on the way out and, despite, the advice from Eurostar, this gave us plenty of time to get through the ticket gate, security and two lots of customs, and find our seats. We arrived in Brussels on our return at 11.35 so three hours before departure and went through two or three at a time. The staff we encountered were all pleasant. Apart from the passport stamping, the experience wasn't that much different from my journeys pre-Brexit. No doubt there will be big changes in October when fingerprint scanning comes in.

 

[sh24]

No doubt there will be big changes in October when fingerprint scanning comes in.

Now likely deferred until mid 2025 in line with ETIAS

 

[signed]

So St Pancras needs better method of coping with those who are bit early than leaving them snaking around waiting for opening, and employing people to shout at them.

The most glaring solution would be to finally outfit Stratford Intl for border controls and call there on every service, and bring back some services calling at Ebbsfleet and Ashford.

There is only one station called by the service in the UK, so you have a massive bottleneck, even if you have 15-20% passengers not getting on at STP, you have 15-20% less passengers on every train to process at STP and you can spread the load out for a better passenger and crew experience.

 

[nwales58]

My guess is that the distribution of passenger arrival times at the barrier will vary by time of year, day and train, because the mix of passenger types and trip purposes varies from early business day trips (who will cut it fine) through frequent leisure travellers (know what it's like) and one-off tourists from another continent (will arrive early, extremely early if it's a tour group because the rep doesn't want to get blamed).

Even with good historic data this will not be acurately predictable (when I was working I have done this kind of thing, but no connection with Eurostar).

Eurostar seem to try to adjust the passenger by sending the recommended arrival bracket which varies on the off-peak services I use. So I trust they are doing the best they can with a difficult problem.

Anyone could try working for them and see if you can do better.

The front-line people could be better managed, but trying working on that kind of job on shifts on their pay and see how you get on.

Now likely deferred until mid 2025 in line with ETIAS

EES still happening October 2024 onwards, ETIAS later as you say, is my understanding though the plan can change yet again. Eurostar's website currently states 'later this year'.

The enrolment zone will replacing Benugo at St Pancras, journalists were told recently. So when that closes for good the start is imminent.

Those who live in cities, I suspect, will suddenly see newspaper articles suggesting a 'life hack' of visiting an airport in a quiet period to enroll in EES well before their next trip.

 

[infobleep]

Now likely deferred until mid 2025 in line with ETIAS

What is ETIAS? Just a polite reminder that abbreviation should be in full the first tim4 as not everyone knows them.

 

[signed]

What is ETIAS? Just a polite reminder that abbreviation should be in full the first tim4 as not everyone knows them.

For everyone info :

European Travel Information and Authorisation Scheme

It's the US ESTA/UK ETA counterpart for the Schengen Area (and Cyprus).

Where everyone between 18 and 70 that does not need a Schengen Visa (except residents, EU/EEA/CH citizens and their families) will need to apply online and shell out €7 for a 3-years/up to passport expiration authorization to travel.

This was supposed to be rolled out along EES (Entry/Exit system, a Schengen wide electronic record of Schengen entry and exit removing stamps), but that has been delayed massively as well, EES is envisionned (unless delayed again) for second half of 2024 and ETIAS for first half of 2025.

 

[BahrainLad]

6 October is the date for EES.

 

[peteb]

I think I've finally sussed out the system at St Pancras International: don't arrive to queue more than 60 mins before departure. There's plenty of pleasant places to sit with a drink and/or eat beforehand. At the 60 minute slot the previous hour train is just leaving. This leaves passengers on the train half an hour before yours sitting in the waiting area. By the time you've done security and passport control these passengers are being called up to their platform. So you get a large room of seats with most unoccupied. It's then a 20 minute sit before being called for your own train. What messes the system up is folks arriving far too early who occupy seats for an hour or more.

Luckily Brussels has fewer Eurostar external Shengan trains so unless there's a cancellation it doesn't seem to get as busy as London.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Signing up for iProov helps. The queue is normally non-existent.

Is this not reserved for Business Premier and higher-tier Club Eurostar members only?

 

[Seehof]

Isn’t there going to be more “bedlam” at St Pancras when all Europeans need a visa for the UK or is that not going to happen now?

 

[signed]

Isn’t there going to be more “bedlam” at St Pancras when all Europeans need a visa for the UK or is that not going to happen now?

Probably not, Eurostar could very much do like in Australia where they would prevent anyone showing up to board without the ETA.

Is this not reserved for Business Premier and higher-tier Club Eurostar members only?

Indeed

 

[MattSGB]

That is part of the problem, the inward connections to St Pancras can be unreliable, or slightly late, and if coming from any sort of distance might only have hourly train.

Rather screws up the idea should only arrive in a 30-45 minute window, because proportion are stuck with 40-80 minute before. So St Pancras needs better method of coping with those who are bit early than leaving them snaking around waiting for opening, and employing people to shout at them. They should just accept that say 30% will be early and open facilities earlier to deal with it. A lounge is for waiting, make it suitable.

The alternative is need a quick and easily way (and at no cost) of moving people's bookings to next train if an inward train to any London terminus is late, to avoid people building in connection delay margin. This seems much more complicated option to me.

I travelled earlier than originally planned last weekend because I couldn't trust Avanti to get me there on time. I would have risked the sensibly timed Avanti service, for which I had tickets with CIV protection, but given that every Eurostar was fully booked for the whole weekend, I doubted that Eurostar could accommodate possible Avanti tardiness. Like any rational person, I spent the extra time getting brunch in St Pancras. Unfortunately, most people aren't rational and will get in the queue hours early, even if thier train isn't listed at the queue entrance. Eurostar need to properly enforce that people are not allowed into the queue until 90 minutes before departure - that's tricky when the queue overflow is all through St Pancras with shop entrances passing through it. Maybe it all goes to hell as soon as they use the overflow?
Given all that, I still don't understand why everything went so smoothly this time even though it was the same type of leisure traveller and fully booked trains. Clearly Eurostar can manage brilliantly sometimes, and fall flat at other times, and I suspect that they are the critical variable, not the customers.

 

[Trainbike46]

I travelled earlier than originally planned last weekend because I couldn't trust Avanti to get me there on time. I would have risked the sensibly timed Avanti service, for which I had tickets with CIV protection, but given that every Eurostar was fully booked for the whole weekend, I doubted that Eurostar could accommodate possible Avanti tardiness. Like any rational person, I spent the extra time getting brunch in St Pancras. Unfortunately, most people aren't rational and will get in the queue hours early, even if thier train isn't listed at the queue entrance. Eurostar need to properly enforce that people are not allowed into the queue until 90 minutes before departure - that's tricky when the queue overflow is all through St Pancras with shop entrances passing through it. Maybe it all goes to hell as soon as they use the overflow?
Given all that, I still don't understand why everything went so smoothly this time even though it was the same type of leisure traveller and fully booked trains. Clearly Eurostar can manage brilliantly sometimes, and fall flat at other times, and I suspect that they are the critical variable, not the customers.

Eurostar has made some changes over the past few years that have increased throughput, including an extra two lanes they use at busy time with a separate departure lounge in part of the arrivals area, and the removal of the eGates leading to more staffed checkpoints. If I understood it correctly, there was also a staff shortage at the french border police which is now resolved. Together those measure now seem to mean that the truly bad situations happen much less frequently now than they did one or two years ago

 

[signed]

the removal of the eGates leading to more staffed checkpoints.

Removal of eGates (which ones, French/Schengen or UK?) sounds to be the backwardest move possible, I would assume the majority of the passenger traffic for Eurostar is elligible for the UK eGates either or/and French PARAFE. But even then.

People aren't faster at the document checking job than machines. The more automatisation you can have, the more you aliviate the human bottleneck because way less people need to pass through manned counters, the faster you can process people that are rejected from the gates or aren't elligible, therefore the passenger flow will be smoother.

 

[Trainbike46]

Removal of eGates (which ones, French/Schengen or UK?) sounds to be the backwardest move possible, I would assume the majority of the passenger traffic for Eurostar is elligible for the UK eGates and French PARAFE. But even then.

The more automatisation you can have, the faster you can process people that are rejected from the gates or aren't elligible, therefore the passenger flow can be smoother

There were only ever French eGates at St Pancras

Since Brexit has required the stamping of all UK passport holders, they were rather awkward, and not particularly helpful. They were replaced with more manned booths instead

 

[signed]

There were only ever French eGates at St Pancras

Since Brexit has requiered the stamping of all UK passport holders, they were rather awkward, and not particularly helpful. They were replaced with more manned booths instead

Why didn't they do like in airports, you have a little booth after the PARAFE where you slide the passport and the person stamps it.

Though that's speculation, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work, that system is mostly for departures

 

[Nunners]

Why didn't they do like in airports, you have a little booth after the PARAFE where you slide the passport and the person stamps it.

Though that's speculation, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work, that system is mostly for departures

They did do that, but since you need space for both the e-gates and the booths, you might as well just have more booths, which passengers prefer and is probably quicker with the current arrangements.

I've had issues with the e-gates breaking before as well, and they have to reboot all of the 'bank' of gates if one breaks. A human being is much more reliable!

 

[riceuten]

So Eurostar has failed to offer a radically different experience than flying from the City Airport? It would be much better for the environment if the train provided a genuinely superior option, yet I'm truly unconvinced that it does

It didn’t use to be like this. Indeed, the space at Waterloo was better thought out and used. Immigration seems to be the main issue (or was the last time I took it), and it’s only going to get worse…

 

[signed]

it’s only going to get worse…

Unless spread out measures (call at Stratford, Ashford and Ebbslfeet) are implemented, indeed, but that's speculation

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Unless spread out measures (call at Stratford, Ashford and Ebbslfeet) are implemented, indeed, but that's speculation

Agreed. This would work well (by weakening the case so much that demand for Eurostar is no longer big enough to be an issue at St Pancras)

 

[signed]

It still amazed me why they never called at Stratford even on a drop-off-only basis seeing how Canary Wharf and all are 15min and a few DLR stops away (compared to 30min to STP) and could attract quite a lot of more business travellers.

Granted that would cost a lot to have border force and all there, but I would see the cost be hugely worth it for everyone involved.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

It still amazed me why they never called at Stratford even on a drop-off-only basis seeing how Canary Wharf and all are 15min and a few DLR stops away (compared to 30min to STP) and could attract quite a lot of more business travellers.

Because adding a long dwell only 5 mins from the main terminus where the vast majority will be travelling to is enough of a deterrent to push people away to flying.

hugely worth it for everyone involved.

Aside from the other 900 people on the train that have their journey times extended for a dozen people that can't travel the extra 10 mins to STP

 

[Trainbike46]

and it’s only going to get worse…

It has gotten better over the last 2 years, in my experience. of course, EES and ETIAS starting may make it worse again, even if only temporarily

 

[RT4038]

Because adding a long dwell only 5 mins from the main terminus where the vast majority will be travelling to is enough of a deterrent to push people away to flying.


Aside from the other 900 people on the train that have their journey times extended for a dozen people that can't travel the extra 10 mins to STP

And increased ticket prices for everybody to pay for the fitting out and subsequent manning of course.

 

[92002]

I think I've finally sussed out the system at St Pancras International: don't arrive to queue more than 60 mins before departure. There's plenty of pleasant places to sit with a drink and/or eat beforehand. At the 60 minute slot the previous hour train is just leaving. This leaves passengers on the train half an hour before yours sitting in the waiting area. By the time you've done security and passport control these passengers are being called up to their platform. So you get a large room of seats with most unoccupied. It's then a 20 minute sit before being called for your own train. What messes the system up is folks arriving far too early who occupy seats for an hour or more.

Luckily Brussels has fewer Eurostar external Shengan trains so unless there's a cancellation it doesn't seem to get as busy as London.

Maybe we should dust off the North of London Eurostar plans again. Not all passengers live around London. Many make long journeys from the north to get to St Pancras.
It's hardly a surprise that it can be a bit of a shambles, particularly at Holiday weekends and the Annual Holiday Months.
Last time I travelled at a Holiday weekend check was 120 minutes which itself caused masses not able to be accommodated in the Departure Lounge. With queues snaking outside departures to get through departures and passport control.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Apologies for raking over old wounds, but the issues at StP compared to Waterloo (in addition to the Border Control points) come down to:

• LCR creating world class shopping etc. in the corridor that links the Thameslink, East Mids and South Eastern areas with LUL and the street. Generates income but majorly constrains the area for processing departures by taking heaps of square meters out of the equation.
• Creating a large support area behind the toilets/Boots in the ground floor. Originally intended, perhaps, for coach and express parcel processing (!) but not well used any more. Without that, the current passageway across to King's Cross might have set further North, with the travelators similarly, enlarging the departures area, and
• The decision to bjuy trains with more seats (ie. the Siemens Velaros), so there are more passengers fighting to get into the thing in the first place

Could some of this be offset by opening trains for boarding earlier, eg. 30 mins? A bit counter-cultural given the rail industry's Standard Operating Procedures (which of course result in the mad dash for the trains at Euston every day!), but given the trains do spend a lot of time sitting round at StP's platforms empty, following cleaning and the secutiy check, might be worth thinking about?

Note that the Benugo thing is just a way of getting some space to fill out the extra forms needed for entry to Schengen at some point in 2025. It is not extra space for departures.
All in the territory of armchair musing on a bank holiday, since we are where we are! For the true bonus thought experiment, consider what might happen if Eurostar ever got double deck, ie Duplex, trains (NB the trains, track and Channel Tunnel could of course take it!) Something like 1/2 of the current SNCF fleet are Duplexes, of course!

 

[BahrainLad]

Is this not reserved for Business Premier and higher-tier Club Eurostar members only?

In theory, yes. But you may find differently.