EV Charging at Stations

[MasterYoda]

There does not appear to be an active an co-ordinated agenda to add Electric Vehicle charging points to all station car parks in the UK or England.
Why are DfT/RDG, the TOCs and Network Rail not going for this relatively low-hanging fruit, installing charging points at every station?

Thanks.

 

[ASharpe]

It would cost an absolute fortune.

Unlike most public EV charging points cars are probably going to be parked there all day, great for a slow AC charge but means you would need even more chargers at greater cost and when they all get used at 7am it will be a massive current draw.

And how many people travel far enough to the station to need to charge there. There needs to be a decent solution for people without driveways but I'm not sure train station car parks are it.

 

[Elecman]

Network Rail are rolling out 10% EV chargers at all thier managed stations and a few others

 

[SynthD]

Even if it existed, it would be slow work. The negotiations for the power supply, the planning permission, I’d expect them to only announce success rather than intentions.

 

[Elecman]

Even if it existed, it would be slow work. The negotiations for the power supply, the planning permission, I’d expect them to only announce success rather than intentions.

If what existed?

 

[ainsworth74]

And how many people travel far enough to the station to need to charge there. There needs to be a decent solution for people without driveways but I'm not sure train station car parks are it.

Yes I think that's probably the main thing here. Even when I go to Darlington from home rather than use a closer station it's only a 50 odd mile round trip which is well within the capability of basically any pure electric vehicle on the market and most, if not all, of those on the second hand market! I'm not sure that station car parks really need EV charging points to be honest.

 

[SynthD]

If what existed?

The program that OP thinks should exist.

 

[zwk500]

Yes I think that's probably the main thing here. Even when I go to Darlington from home rather than use a closer station it's only a 50 odd mile round trip which is well within the capability of basically any pure electric vehicle on the market and most, if not all, of those on the second hand market! I'm not sure that station car parks really need EV charging points to be honest.

I disagree, station car parks represent a very good opportunity to ease the issues around charging EVs where no off-street parking is available. Instead of having to install charging points every 20 meters on every pavement in a redbrick terraced town, you install chargers at Supermarket and station car parks and people can keep topping up whilst parked up. Especially for station car parks, where you could set you app to know you're on a specific train home and let it manage the charging at less busy/expensive times for you.

 

[SynthD]

Especially for station car parks, where you could set you app to know you're on a specific train home and let it manage the charging at less busy/expensive times for you.

That’s a weak point of this idea. It encourages weekday commuters to charge on someone else’s expense, during the workday, rather than at home during the night. I might object to this now.

 

[zwk500]

That’s a weak point of this idea. It encourages weekday commuters to charge on someone else’s expense, during the workday, rather than at home during the night. I might object to this now.

The commuter would still be paying for the energy transferred. It just means that instead of 250 cars all trying to draw max charge at 9am, the supplier and car apps can manage the energy draw so that the cars either trickle charge or the charging points switch in/out so that the local grid isn't overworked. If you can charge at home they probably will because it will be cheaper, but in that case they shouldn't be parking in the charging bays.

 

[NoRoute]

Why are DfT/RDG, the TOCs and Network Rail not going for this relatively low-hanging fruit, installing charging points at every station?

Yes it's quite surprising, as transport focussed organisations you would expect them to take a close interest and to see how their customers who are adopting EVs and PHEVs will want to charge and the facilities they will demand and pay for at stations.

Quite a few councils are now rolling out charging facilities at council car parks and even on-street, some of the supermarkets are rolling these out across the UK sites, some of the fast-food drive throughs are installing rapid chargers to attract customers, same with leisure venues and now quite a few workplaces. If being generous, perhaps the ownership and control of station land and car-parks is a barrier?

And of course for some parts of the network, the cars would be electrified before the trains, the cleanest bit of the journey would be the drive to and from the station!

 

[supervc-10]

I think actually station car parks could be a good place for companies like InstaVolt to put in a couple of fast (50kW+) chargers. Station car parks are normally easy to find, well lit, safe, and well connected into the road network. I don't think slow (7kW) chargers are the best option due to the large loads people have already mentioned.

 

[NoRoute]

There's arguments for both, rapid (50+kW) chargers could be useful for taxis waiting at the station and anyone picking up or dropping off, but fast chargers (upto 7kW) are better if people want to leave the vehicle charging all day while away on the train. I can't see those people taking the train wanting to arrive at the station 30 mins early, or stay at the station for another 30 mins on their return to charge up when the car has been left there for several hours or even all day.

 

[InTheEastMids]

I disagree, station car parks represent a very good opportunity to ease the issues around charging EVs where no off-street parking is available.

This is a good point, and consistent with some of the strategic documents that NR have emitted in the past years - e.g. the Arup/NR "Tomorrows Living Station" study.
Most station car parks have a lot of spare capacity evenings & weekends. Offering them up as evening charging hubs increases the value of the railway to the community and could result in (modest) additional ancillary revenue.

There's arguments for both, rapid (50+kW) chargers could be useful for taxis waiting at the station and anyone picking up or dropping off, but fast chargers (upto 7kW) are better if people want to leave the vehicle charging all day while away on the train

Agree, 7 kW in the car park, potentially 150-350 kW for the station forecourt. Some stations might also be good locations to have ultra-rapid charging for buses too.

I think there's a twofold challenge - a technical/economic barrier in the cost and deliverability of power network upgrades
Also a cultural challenge - you have to look (a bit) at a station as a municipal/community building with a railway through the middle, rather than a logistics centre for self-loading freight

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest 13A chargers would be fine in car parks where people expect to be parked all day several times a week, e.g. stations, employers, blocks of flats etc. Car use midweek is typically for short journeys, so battery level would build up over the week.

 

[NoRoute]

I think there's a twofold challenge - a technical/economic barrier in the cost and deliverability of power network upgrades
Also a cultural challenge - you have to look (a bit) at a station as a municipal/community building with a railway through the middle, rather than a logistics centre for self-loading freight

Certainly the supply capacity can be an issue for rapids and large banks of fast charge-points, but you'd expect a station could manage at least a few 7kW fast charge-points with some smart controls.

I'm not sure it needs a huge culture change in how the railways are seen because I'd expect the charge-points would primarily be for customers of the railway. Really not much different to when the motor-car was invented and the railways realised they needed to build car parks to allow their customers to drive to the station, or how they have added newsagents, coffee and sandwich shops. Needs a bit of entrepreneurialism.... yeah I take your point that might be a cultural challenge!

 

[Elecman]

Network Rail are fitting variable rate chargers (charging rates upto 22kW from 5 kW depending how many are in use at any one time against the available power capacity) in the main car parks with additional variable upto 50kW Fast Chargers in the Short Wait car parks again Load controlled to the maximum supply capacity available )

 

[wobman]

Most station car parks have plenty of lampposts and they could be fitted with trickle charge EV points, I've seen these points fitted at street lampposts in new Brighton and thought it was a great idea.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

My one question, why am I, a non-driver, paying through tickets AND taxes for people to replace petrol stations?

I understand the enviromental side but then you can ban living too far from work for zero cost! (I'm not saying do this)

The railways subsidising road use has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!

 

[zwk500]

My one question, why am I, a non-driver, paying through tickets AND taxes for people to replace petrol stations?

I understand the enviromental side but then you can ban living too far from work for zero cost! (I'm not saying do this)

The railways subsidising road use has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!

Because people can't always live within walking/cycling distance of a railway station. If you don't provide car friendly infrastructure at a railway station they'll drive the whole way to their destination and that's even worse for the environment, the railways and society as a whole.

 

[wobman]

Because people can't always live within walking/cycling distance of a railway station. If you don't provide car friendly infrastructure at a railway station they'll drive the whole way to their destination and that's even worse for the environment, the railways and society as a whole.

I've always advocated railway stations having bigger car parks, this with cheaper fares will get more passengers on the trains. Also integration of bus stops at stations will help get people on public transport, these things need to be part of an overall plan to get unessessary car journeys off our roads.

 

[zwk500]

I've always advocated railway stations having bigger car parks, this with cheaper fares will get more passengers on the trains. Also integration of bus stops at stations will help get people on public transport, these things need to be part of an overall plan to get unessessary car journeys off our roads.

I'm not sure bigger car parks are necessarily a good idea. Personally what I'd like to see is a much better effort at Plusbus-type ticketing and proper integration not just of bus stops but bus routes to hub stations, so that people leave the car at home. It also isn't quite as simple as 'cheaper fares' because the fares system is still based on pre-covid travel patterns. We need a proper overhaul of the fares system to recognise that commuting has changed but that headline prices need to be reasonable on first glance.

 

[wobman]

I'm not sure bigger car parks are necessarily a good idea. Personally what I'd like to see is a much better effort at Plusbus-type ticketing and proper integration not just of bus stops but bus routes to hub stations, so that people leave the car at home. It also isn't quite as simple as 'cheaper fares' because the fares system is still based on pre-covid travel patterns. We need a proper overhaul of the fares system to recognise that commuting has changed but that headline prices need to be reasonable on first glance.

What I've proposed is a simple fix that would help with a bigger problem, for example Hooton station has a huge car park but poor bus links.
The car park is full as merseyrail offer cheap fares to Liverpool or Chester, not many people from that side of the Wirral drive into Liverpool due to these reasons. Getting people out of cars will take time & adding EV points at station car parks plus more capacity is going in the right direction. Plus network rail can make money out of this by installing solar farms on its own land / properties installing EV charge stations etc

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Because people can't always live within walking/cycling distance of a railway station. If you don't provide car friendly infrastructure at a railway station they'll drive the whole way to their destination and that's even worse for the environment, the railways and society as a whole.

Then take a bus!

I cannot be the only non-driver at their wits end with funding those who make the CHOICE to drive, it's not a requirement!

 

[zwk500]

Then take a bus!

I cannot be the only non-driver at their wits end with funding those who make the CHOICE to drive, it's not a requirement!

Not everybody lives in a location with a usable bus service. Drivers pay for car parking, and I'd bet a substantial amount that the revenue from Car Parks far exceeds the costs of providing them. Drivers also pay Vehicle Tax and tax on fuel which goes into the same pot from which the government fund the railways, so no you are not funding others who drive. Those who drive and choose not to take the train are paying for your train tickets though.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Not everybody lives in a location with a usable bus service. Drivers pay for car parking, and I'd bet a substantial amount that the revenue from Car Parks far exceeds the costs of providing them. Drivers also pay Vehicle Tax and tax on fuel which goes into the same pot from which the government fund the railways, so no you are not funding others who drive. Those who drive and choose not to take the train are paying for your train tickets though.

EV Drivers aren't! They pay zero road tax!
If people needed bus services they would exist, in fact they did until car ownership took over.
Use it or lose it!

 

[jon0844]

EV Drivers aren't! They pay zero road tax!
If people needed bus services they would exist, in fact they did until car ownership took over.
Use it or lose it!

I don't pay road tax either and my car is petrol. Didn't pay for my diesel car either!

The benefit of installing charging infrastructure more applicable to an EV (rather than the traditional pump at a station model, although some petrol stations are adapting) is clear, and people generally pay to use them so they can pay for themselves surely?

Some councils are dragging their heels, while other businesses are seeing the future profits as more EVs come to the road. It seems that with rapid growth of EV sales, there is going to be a lag before we get better facilities but that will change.

I must admit though, I am not sure a car park where someone dumps their car all day to commute by rail, and maybe used a fraction of 1% charge to get to the station in the morning, is a high priority.

At Hatfield (which has 25+ charging bays and one of the first to be done?) I've seen 4 or 5 in use at most - and the car park now seems to be back to where it was pre-pandemic almost.

So far every car I've seen on charge has been a model that will have a range of 200 miles of more!

A better investment in the future might be inductive charging plates at taxi ranks, as they're vehicles that really can do with top ups as often as possible without major inconvenience.

 

[NoRoute]

My one question, why am I, a non-driver, paying through tickets AND taxes for people to replace petrol stations?
...
The railways subsidising road use has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!

The railways exist to serve their customers, many of which are car drivers who get to the train station by car, so just as they provide car parking to serve them, with many now buying EVs then providing some basic EV charging facilities is a service to those customers.

But these charging facilities are not free for the EV users, there's a usage fee to cover the cost of the electricity and recover the cost of the equipment. It's quite likely that in time they will become a source of extra revenue for the railway, just like the car parking charges and the coffee shops, snack shops and news agents.

 

[skyhigh]

My one question, why am I, a non-driver, paying through tickets AND taxes for people to replace petrol stations?

I understand the enviromental side but then you can ban living too far from work for zero cost! (I'm not saying do this)

The railways subsidising road use has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!

Who says the railway is subsidising road use? There is a cost for the installation of a charge point and for the energy used, yes. But if the railway charges the going market rate for use then they should make a profit on the service. Unless you think the likes of McDonald's and motorway services subsidise car users by having charging facilities?

 

[AM9]

EV Drivers aren't! They pay zero road tax!
If people needed bus services they would exist, in fact they did until car ownership took over.
Use it or lose it!

Nobody pays "road tax", there's no such thing in the UK. Highways (which includes pavements and cycle lanes are funded by general taxation. Road vehicles are subject to Vehicle Excise Duty, based on their CO2 and other pollution impact.