Excess and refund on advance tickets

[MichaelAMW]

This is one asked by a chum... He has two advance singles that between them give him a return trip from Nottingham to London and cost about £80. He wants to know if he can excess these tickets to an off-peak return - this is £77.50 so only the admin fee to pay - and then put that off-peak return in for a refund. Overall he would spend £110, including the admin fees, and get back £77.50, giving him back as a consolation prize a net £32.50 of his original £80 outlay.

So, two questions:

(i) Can you excess a pair of advance-purchase singles to a walk-on return?
(ii) If so, is that return a 'real' return, as opposed to some special sort that used to be advance singles, and therefore able to be refunded? In other words, does the history of the ticket affect its refund status?

Ta in advance...

 

[barrykas]

(i) Can you excess a pair of advance-purchase singles to a walk-on return?

No. A Single can only be excessed to another Single.

(ii) If so, is that return a 'real' return, as opposed to some special sort that used to be advance singles, and therefore able to be refunded? In other words, does the history of the ticket affect its refund status?

The excess would be refundable, but the original Advance ticket and AP Change Fee are both non-refundable.

The exception to the rule being refunds in accordance with Condition 26(a) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

if the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not be honoured, you decide not to travel and at that time you return the unused ticket to any ticket office, the Train Company responsible for that ticket office will, if it is in a position to do so, give you an immediate full refund as shown in Condition 27.

Condition 27 states how the refund will be paid. (i.e. the same method of payment as originally used).

Cheers,

Barry

 

[MichaelAMW]

The excess would be refundable, but the original Advance ticket and AP Change Fee are both non-refundable.

So, just to be clear, you are saying that an advance single excessed to a walk-on single is not actually a walk-on single but - hard to know exactly how to describe it - a kind of advance that is not tied to a particular train any more. You haven't actually paid to make it a genuine walk-on single, which would have normal refund rights, but some kind of halfway house that lets you go on any train but retains the refund arrangements of an advance single.

Is this actually written down somewhere?

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[Deerfold]

So, just to be clear, you are saying that an advance single excessed to a walk-on single is not actually a walk-on single but - hard to know exactly how to describe it - a kind of advance that is not tied to a particular train any more. You haven't actually paid to make it a genuine walk-on single, which would have normal refund rights, but some kind of halfway house that lets you go on any train but retains the refund arrangements of an advance single.

Is this actually written down somewhere?

Cheers,
Michael.

I don't think you're supposed to be able to change an advance single to a walk-on single. You may have managed to do it though. As far as I know the only changes you are supposed to be able to do are change the date/time and pay any difference in fare + £10.


The East Coast terms are below - it seems to be harder to find EMT's...

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/travel-i...nformation/Ticket-Sales-Terms-and-Conditions/

e. You must travel with East Coast for the main part of your journey. Your ticket cannot be changed to travel on any other Train Company’s services for this part of the journey.

 

[John @ home]

I don't think you're supposed to be able to change an advance single to a walk-on single. You may have managed to do it though.

For tickets purchased via the East Coast web site, the online Change facility offers changes from Standard Advance Single to Standard or First Class Anytime Single.

 

[Deerfold]

For tickets purchased via the East Coast web site, the online Change facility offers changes from Standard Advance Single to Standard or First Class Anytime Single.

That's changed since I last used it then (which is a while ago). Does that not contradict their statement unless it's issued as an EC only ticket.

 

[CompactDstrxion]

That's changed since I last used it then (which is a while ago). Does that not contradict their statement unless it's issued as an EC only ticket.

Ticket isn't issued until it's printed, I guess.

 

[Deerfold]

Ticket isn't issued until it's printed, I guess.

I don't understand this comment.

 

[radamfi]

I don't understand this comment.

I assume he means it isn't 'issued' until it has been collected at the machine (referring to tickets that been bought online but haven't been collected yet).

 

[Deerfold]

I assume he means it isn't 'issued' until it has been collected at the machine (referring to tickets that been bought online but haven't been collected yet).

I'm still not understanding the relevance. The online change facility doesn't stop working when the ticket's been printed. Does it stop offering the facility to excess to a full price single?

 

[John @ home]

Does it stop offering the facility to excess to a full price single?

Earlier today, I collected some EC Advance tickets for travel next month. I should be in a position to check the change options when I get home tomorrow.

 

[radamfi]

I'm still not understanding the relevance. The online change facility doesn't stop working when the ticket's been printed. Does it stop offering the facility to excess to a full price single?

Southern will only honour the 'Rainy Day Guarantee' (for non-Advance tickets) if you don't pick up the tickets:

http://www.southernrailway.com/offers/rainy-day/

"If you do collect your tickets from a TOD or Ticket Vending Machine from the station, then standard refund rules will apply and you will be charged the normal £10 refund administrative fee."

So, at least with Southern, a ticket is not a ticket until it is printed. Makes sense really as if you cancel before pickup there is no fraud possibility as the ticket hasn't been printed and there is no piece of paper to return so the refund should be easy.

 

[barrykas]

I don't think you're supposed to be able to change an advance single to a walk-on single. You may have managed to do it though. As far as I know the only changes you are supposed to be able to do are change the date/time and pay any difference in fare + £10.

It's enshrined in The Manual.

The basic gist is that you can change an Advance at any time before the departure of the booked train for a fee of £10 plus any difference in fares. Obviously, if this is after reservations are closed, or there are no Advance tickets left for the train in question, you can only excess up to a walk-up fare, or buy a new ticket if that's cheaper.

In such a case, the original Advance remains non-refundable, as does the supplement you've paid to change it, but the excess can be refunded, subject to the usual admin fee.

Having said that, it was more common to perform such excesses in days of yore, when you had Apex and Superadvance Returns and such like, as it's often cheaper to buy a new ticket nowadays, given Advance Purchase tickets are sold as Singles.

HTH,

Barry