Excessing a ticket - here or there?

[Lampshade]

Hey guys, last week I bought an open return from Manchester to Staines (routed +London), only problem is I'm returning to Preston tomorrow and I'd like to avoid buying another ticket in Manchester when I can (I assume) just excess the one I've got. I'd also like to go via the MML to Sheffield and on to Manchester and Preston from there - which again I'm unsure of as I know MAN - St Pancras is valid via SHF but not Preston - St Pancras. My question is: is it possible to excess the return portion of this ticket to Preston and where should I do it?
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And sorry about the lack of clarity, I'm on my phone.

 

[yorkie]

yes, in theory anywhere but some staff don't know how and will give excuses, in which case go elsewhere. i'd be surprised if the MML isn't a valid route but check the RG i'm on my phone but if you're on a computer go to ATOC.org then the RG is under about us, preston and london group are both Routeing points so go straight to the section that lists mapped routes which is really easy. then view themaps

 

[John @ home]

i'd be surprised if the MML isn't a valid route but check the RG

Yes, London Group - Preston Lancs is permitted via Sheffield by maps MM+PS.

 

[Lampshade]

Well I went to the booking office at St Pancras and enquired about it but I was told I could only do it from Staines, Euston (:?) or Manchester, which I found slightly odd. I boarded the train to Sheffield and when the Guard came round checking tickets I asked him if he could issue excess fares, to which he replied he could and he issued it without any problems, only £1.70

 

[bb21]

I'm slightly surprised as the EMT section of the ticket office at St Pancras are usually pretty good at it. Did you go to an FCC window? Wouldn't be surprised in that case

 

[Lampshade]

I'm slightly surprised as the EMT section of the ticket office at St Pancras are usually pretty good at it. Did you go to an FCC window? Wouldn't be surprised in that case

Yep it was definitely the EMT section (the one opposite Starbucks), the FCC ticket office only had two windows open and an enormous queue.

 

[yorkie]

St Pancras is usually good for excesses, but I'm told not always.

 

[Nick W]

Sadly poor-training, laziness, deceit, apathy and arrogance are common diseases among ticket office staff, making it very hard to get excesses. Even worse, those that do a great job often get accused of wrongdoing (for which the rules always vindicate them) behind their back. Guards seem to be a lot more willing to good a job or better trained.

All you can do is try elsewhere and make a note of who and where is competent and willing. I've found the best question is to be up-front and ask if they can do excesses. If they yes, you can often trap them into doing it.

 

[Greenback]

There was no training in excesses when I started in the ticket office in 1998. The senior staff memebrs all had different interpretations of what could and could not be done, and how the excess should be calculated. I'm not surprised there is still confusion, but I am disappointed nothing has improved!

 

[RJ]

Issuing an excess is a simple process, can be done in 60 seconds.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....If you know how to do it!

My Fastis training didn't include excesses, infact my APTIS training way back when didn't either. I had to ask someone who knew on APTIS (I didn't actually know what one was back then) and I had to look it up myself on Fastis.

 

[Greenback]

Clearly, excessing tickets hasn;t been part of retail training at ticket offices for some time. A clear indication, perhaps, that TOC's are not keen on them!

 

[tannedfrog]

Does it make any difference whether I go to an FCC or EMT window at StP or an EC window at Kings Cross in terms of what I can buy?

 

[Greenback]

It shouldn't, unless the position is clearly labelled as offering a restricted range of services/tickets. In practice, it often depends on the experience, knowledge, training and skills of the clerk, especially when it comes to excesses.

 

[RJ]

Clearly, excessing tickets hasn;t been part of retail training at ticket offices for some time. A clear indication, perhaps, that TOC's are not keen on them!

Depends who you train with .

 

[Nick W]

There was no training in excesses when I started in the ticket office in 1998. The senior staff memebrs all had different interpretations of what could and could not be done, and how the excess should be calculated. I'm not surprised there is still confusion, but I am disappointed nothing has improved!

I can believe that being the case. Nevertheless, unless ticket staff are illiterate or are less able to use a computer than I was at the age of 6, there is little excuse for their inability to read up
the manuals nor explore the application they have. At work currently I has no training in c# whatsoever and was still able to make a GUI app so I'd expect ticket staff to be able to navIgate a pre-programmed GUI app.

Even less excusable is when staff have denied the existance of the manual and refused to make an equiry.

I presume they also have little to no training in customer service nor basic ettiquette.
phone call and accuse more capable colleagues of wrongdoing!

 

[Mojo]

Unfortunately there is very little information in the public domain about excessing tickets and I cannot seem to see anything from any official sources about it on Google; indeed, the first result relevant to railways for "excess ticket" in Google is for this forum!

The other day I bought a return to a station and then walked to the next station along the line and asked for an excess for the additional journey and was told I had to excess both legs of the ticket. Does anyone know if this is correct?

 

[RJ]

I can believe that being the case. Nevertheless, unless ticket staff are illiterate or are less able to use a computer than I was at the age of 6, there is little excuse for their inability to read up
the manuals nor explore the application they have. At work currently I has no training in c# whatsoever and was still able to make a GUI app so I'd expect ticket staff to be able to navIgate a pre-programmed GUI app.

Even less excusable is when staff have denied the existance of the manual and refused to make an equiry.

I presume they also have little to no training in customer service nor basic ettiquette.
phone call and accuse more capable colleagues of wrongdoing!

It is dead easy to do excesses, but knowing when it is appropriate to do so and which option to pick is something that requires precise knowledge, either from training or The Manual if knowledge topup is required.

 

[Greenback]

I can believe that being the case. Nevertheless, unless ticket staff are illiterate or are less able to use a computer than I was at the age of 6, there is little excuse for their inability to read up
the manuals nor explore the application they have. At work currently I has no training in c# whatsoever and was still able to make a GUI app so I'd expect ticket staff to be able to navIgate a pre-programmed GUI app.

Even less excusable is when staff have denied the existance of the manual and refused to make an equiry.

I presume they also have little to no training in customer service nor basic ettiquette.
phone call and accuse more capable colleagues of wrongdoing!

There were no apps on APTIS. You had to input the fare manually, and if you asked anyone else how to calculate the fare, you got a different answer depending on who you talked to and the particular circumstances! Nor was there a manual present, being as APTIS had come in 14 years before I started!

You have a good point though. It should happen far less today, which is why I am disappointed that these problems occur so frequently. Everything should be simpler now, although I too have met staff who simply will not look things up by pressing a key!

I actually have a little theory about this. I believe that some staff are put in the ticket office when they are displaced, even if they have no aptitiude for dealing witht he public, or the correct skills to do the job.

 

[RJ]

These days, most of the input is still manual - first enter ticket customer wants, select the fare, click excess, enter details of existing ticket, void existing ticket, take payment for the price difference, print new ticket.

 

[janb]

These days, most of the input is still manual - first enter ticket customer wants, select the fare, click excess, enter details of existing ticket, void existing ticket, take payment for the price difference, print new ticket.

Obviously depends on the TIS. In STAR, enter current ticket details, Get Fares, select fare, excess from, ticket number, excess reason, outward/return/whole journey if applicable, and it should churn out the correct excess fare. Pretty easy once you know how, however I think it calculates STD to 1ST in one direction incorrectly so that might need to be done as a manual fare. And of course you may need The Manual to hand to check the rules.

 

[scotsman]

ScotRail staff seem to be fairly good at it, but still don't seem to understand completely.

I asked one Ticket Examiner in Edinburgh if I could excess a Fife (Station witheld for privacy) - Edinburgh ticket to Slateford. I was told I couldn't as it was 'a different route'. I went to get a second opinion from another TE and he said he'd do it, only for me to find that I couldn't get it, as my outward ticket had been retained by the barrier.

 

[RJ]

Obviously depends on the TIS. In STAR, enter current ticket details, Get Fares, select fare, excess from, ticket number, excess reason, outward/return/whole journey if applicable, and it should churn out the correct excess fare. Pretty easy once you know how, however I think it calculates STD to 1ST in one direction incorrectly so that might need to be done as a manual fare. And of course you may need The Manual to hand to check the rules.

Ah ok, I'm more familiar with Tribute.

 

[b0b]

One thing I don't understand is why machines don't have ticket readers so they could assess the ticket already held ... I guess its special hardware just for the purpose of excesses though.

 

[RJ]

Unfortunately there is very little information in the public domain about excessing tickets and I cannot seem to see anything from any official sources about it on Google; indeed, the first result relevant to railways for "excess ticket" in Google is for this forum!

The other day I bought a return to a station and then walked to the next station along the line and asked for an excess for the additional journey and was told I had to excess both legs of the ticket. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Yes I do, no it's not correct. If you buy a return from A - B then return from C, you can get a excess for the return portion only starting at C.

 

[button_boxer]

As I understand it you should be able to excess just the return half for a change of origin or route as long as it's the same type of ticket (e.g. off-peak return A-B, excess the return half only for an off-peak C-A), but have to excess both halves if you want to change the ticket type (off-peak to anytime).

 

[yorkie]

As I understand it you should be able to excess just the return half for a change of origin or route as long as it's the same type of ticket (e.g. off-peak return A-B, excess the return half only for an off-peak C-A), but have to excess both halves if you want to change the ticket type (off-peak to anytime).

Over distance excess can be done on one portion only, that's right.
Change of ticket type excess can only be done on the entire ticket, if it's a return that means both portions, that's right.

However if you do an overdistance and that just so happens to cause a change of ticket type, then so be it, it can still be done on only one portion if required. The fact that the change of type is occurring by co-incidence does not mean that the entire ticket has to be excessed.

 

[barrykas]

Over distance excess can be done on one portion only, that's right.
Change of ticket type excess can only be done on the entire ticket, if it's a return that means both portions, that's right.

However if you do an overdistance and that just so happens to cause a change of ticket type, then so be it, it can still be done on only one portion if required. The fact that the change of type is occurring by co-incidence does not mean that the entire ticket has to be excessed.

From "The Manual":

Overdistance excess on one leg of a return journey:

Charge the appropriate Single fare for the extra journey. If cheaper, charge HALF the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate Return fare for the throughout journey.

Let's say, for example, that you hold a Super Off-Peak Return from Derby to London Terminals, priced at £54.30, and now wish to return to Sheffield at a time where Super Off-Peak tickets are not valid, but Off-Peak, costing £84 for Sheffield to London Terminals (route Chesterfield) are.

The Excess fare would be HALF of £84 - £54.30, or £14.85.

An Off-Peak Day Single from Derby to Sheffield (assuming you're travelling after 9am on a weekday), meanwhile, is £8.70, so that would be the appropriate fare to charge.

Cheers,

Barry