Exeter - Zero-Fare Overdistance Excess

[Hyphen]

Hi all,

Today I bought a ticket for travel to Exeter, and will be travelling tomorrow. (FSR First Class Off-Peak Return, £96.10, should that info be required).

At Swansea ticket office I specifically asked for Exeter Central (EXC), as I fancied the extra validity for the same price should it be required at any point. However, when the ticket was printed, it had a destination of Exeter St Davids (EXD). At the time, I didn't question, as I didn't think I needed the extra hop.

I've since realised that thanks to timings of trains and my onward bus connection, I've got just over an hour to waste in Exeter. So I do now need the extra validity, so I can hop off at EXC and take a slow wander to the bus station.

1) How likely is it the booking office at Swansea will sell me the zero-fare overdistance excess? The Fares Guide tells me some TOCs won't...

2) If they don't, how likely am I to get an FGW or XC guard who will?

3) If nobody will give me the excess, is anybody likely to bat an eyelid if I travel to EXC on a ticket with a destination of EXD?

Many thanks in advance

 

[Merseysider]

1) You have an absolute right to the excess if you ask for it before travel.

Some TOCs have a policy of not doing zero-fare excesses, and excess tickets in general can be very hard to obtain anyway. I don't know what ATW's policy on this is, if any.

2) In my experience, guards tend to be better at issuing excess tickets than some ticket office staff, so if you can't get it before travel, approach the guard at the first opportunity when boarding and he should issue it without any hassle.

3) Technically you wouldn't have a valid ticket for the EXD-EXC portion, so it's possible you would be asked to pay extra.

In this case you should write in for a refund of the extra paid if it comes to that.

 

[LateThanNever]

Hi all,

Today I bought a ticket for travel to Exeter, and will be travelling tomorrow. (FSR First Class Off-Peak Return, £96.10, should that info be required).

At Swansea ticket office I specifically asked for Exeter Central (EXC), as I fancied the extra validity for the same price should it be required at any point. However, when the ticket was printed, it had a destination of Exeter St Davids (EXD). At the time, I didn't question, as I didn't think I needed the extra hop.

I've since realised that thanks to timings of trains and my onward bus connection, I've got just over an hour to waste in Exeter. So I do now need the extra validity, so I can hop off at EXC and take a slow wander to the bus station.

1) How likely is it the booking office at Swansea will sell me the zero-fare overdistance excess? The Fares Guide tells me some TOCs won't...

2) If they don't, how likely am I to get an FGW or XC guard who will?

3) If nobody will give me the excess, is anybody likely to bat an eyelid if I travel to EXC on a ticket with a destination of EXD?

Many thanks in advance

Well I think you'll have a less than 50% chance of travelling First Class to Exeter Central!
I doubt anyone ever checks tickets between the two!

 

[starrymarkb]

They won't check on train, but Central is fully barriered.

I would not suggest alighting at St James Park and walking back (<10 mins to the Bus Stat) if push came to shove.

The fare up the hill is about £1 - rather less then the bus

 

[Hyphen]

Thanks JakeF and starrymarkb for your input.

Well I think you'll have a less than 50% chance of travelling First Class to Exeter Central!

Having done the ale trail on the Barnstaple line a couple of times, I fully understand the lack of 'posh' accommodation on those trains!

It's just when I've paid that much to travel, I sort of baulk at paying £1 extra, considering it's what I asked for in the first place!

 

[furlong]

1) You have an absolute right to the excess if you ask for it before travel.

I strongly disagree: the circumstances in which people have an "absolute right" to an over-distance excess seem to me to be extremely limited and do not cover situations such as these.

If you were not given the ticket you asked for, it's surely your responsibility to notice this at the point of sale and get this corrected.

In practice, you should seek authority to travel to Central, in sequence, from the original ticket office/station staff, the on-train sfaff, staff at Exeter St. David's and hope that someone will provide you with an excess or endorsement.

 

[Merseysider]

I strongly disagree: the circumstances in which people have an "absolute right" to an over-distance excess seem to me to be extremely limited and do not cover situations such as these.

If you were not given the ticket you asked for, it's surely your responsibility to notice this at the point of sale and get this corrected.

In practice, you should seek authority to travel to Central, in sequence, from the original ticket office/station staff, the on-train sfaff, staff at Exeter St. David's and hope that someone will provide you with an excess or endorsement.

The OP in this case does have an absolute right - if it's done before travel - other cases will obviously be different. Failing to obtain an excess when the original ticket was purchased does not preclude one from obtaining it later, for obvious reasons.

Changing the contract by paying excess fares
Excess fares may be purchased by customers, already in possession of tickets, only in one of three circumstances:
1) Before the journey starts - at a station
To allow customers holding tickets to change the terms on which their tickets were issued, before travel.

Over-riding (travelling beyond the destination on the ticket)
The Excess Fare to charge before travel, or on board the train when there was “no opportunity to buy” before boarding

General Principles
The Excess fare to charge is the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s) available for immediate travel on the chosen service.
The cheapest available ticket(s) suitable for the journey being made may vary, depending on the specific train, time of day or day of week on which customers wish to travel. The cheapest ticket could be an Anytime, Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak ticket. It will never be an Advance ticket.
Normal discounts apply to children (aged 5-15 inclusive) and Railcard holders.

I would say it's quite clear cut this situation is covered.

 

[furlong]

I would say it's quite clear cut this situation is covered.

Read the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement:

(4) (b) An Excess Fare may only be Sold if it entitles the Purchaser of it to:-
...
(v) travel beyond the Station to which the Fare he holds entitles him to travel, but only where he was unable to buy a Fare that entitles him to make such a journey at the Station where and at the time when he started his journey

Note the use of that awkward word "only". There is no "absolute entitlement" and the guidance you quoted, if complete, has just neglected to mention this nuance that might make the sale of an over-distance excess in the circumstances described a breach of the agreement. (Not that the passenger is likely to complain of course!)

 

[Merseysider]

Read the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement:

Note the use of that awkward word "only". There is no "absolute entitlement" and the guidance you quoted, if complete, has just neglected to mention this nuance that might make the sale of an over-distance excess in the circumstances described a breach of the agreement. (Not that the passenger is likely to complain of course!)

It appears even our own Fares and Ticketing Guide fails to mention that.

It also appears the TSA is at odds with industry guidance! Whether this is an oversight or deliberate I am unsure of, but I am sure a moderator/fares advisor will know more on the matter and will be able to clear this up.

 

[furlong]

This is just speculation, but my guess is that over-distance excess fares date back to the days before computerisation where some points of sale did not have access to a comprehensive set of fares, so the passenger had to buy a ticket for the first part of their journey then top it up later with an over-distance excess. I'd be surprised if they were ever intended to be used in cases when a passenger chose to vary their travel plans and could have bought the alternative ticket in the first place.

 

[Merseysider]

This is just speculation, but my guess is that over-distance excess fares date back to the days before computerisation where some points of sale did not have access to a comprehensive set of fares, so the passenger had to buy a ticket for the first part of their journey then top it up later with an over-distance excess. I'd be surprised if they were ever intended to be used in cases when a passenger chose to vary their travel plans and could have bought the alternative ticket in the first place.

I would agree with that interpretation; the TSA is dated 23 July 1995 after all!
Of course, National Fares Manuals were still around in paper format after this date, and each ticket office would only have had access to local/regional fares (and to London).

Debating ticketing certainly makes for a more interesting evening than being forced to watch countless re-runs of Eastenders

 

[Hyphen]

Thanks all for your help.

I'll try it on at Swansea before travel, without mentioning the word 'excess', explaining that I did ask for Exeter Central. If they aren't able/willing (or try to charge the £10 admin fee), I'll try for an excess with the guards I encounter.

If nobody's able by the time I'm there, I'll just plump for the £1 extra. I suppose it's not the end of the world, and I really don't fancy taking my chances heading to a barriered station without a valid ticket.

(The St James Park idea won't work - the train I connect into doesn't stop there, and the next one arrives 15:24 for a 15:35 bus - don't fancy that one!)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....and each ticket office would only have had access to local/regional fares (and to London)....

Small offices had the local ones only (and the bus/airport links when that came out), medium and larger offices had at least one full set, ime.

....I'll try it on at Swansea before travel, without mentioning the word 'excess', explaining that I did ask for Exeter Central. If they aren't able/willing (or try to charge the £10 admin fee), I'll try for an excess with the guards I encounter....

If the ticket office or guard won't excess the ticket, see if they will endorse it for travel to Central.

 

[Hyphen]

Hi all,

Well that was easier than expected. Swansea booking office told me I'd be OK to travel to Central on the existing tickets. I asked if the tickets could be endorsed (to cover myself) and they were very happy to.

Many thanks all for your help

 

[Greenback]

I'm glad you didn't have a problem. In my experience, Swansea ticket office are very helpful if a little unknowledgeable. A bit like children who are eager to please but maybe aren't sure how!

 

[Merseysider]

Hi all,

Well that was easier than expected. Swansea booking office told me I'd be OK to travel to Central on the existing tickets. I asked if the tickets could be endorsed (to cover myself) and they were very happy to.

Many thanks all for your help

Good to hear
Out of interest, is there any reason why tickets aren't sold to Exeter Stations, and instead to only a specific one?

 

[bnm]

Good to hear
Out of interest, is there any reason why tickets aren't sold to Exeter Stations, and instead to only a specific one?

Perhaps it might be for historical reasons. Exeter Central was, for a time, managed by Network SouthEast and then Regional Railways. Exeter St Davids would have been, I assume, an Inter-City sector station.

 

[221129]

For what it's worth, I have always found the local staff won't give you issues if you use a St Davids Ticket to Central (Or St Thomas) also they tend to work the barriers as well.

 

[embers25]

Good to hear
Out of interest, is there any reason why tickets aren't sold to Exeter Stations, and instead to only a specific one?

Fares are not always the same to Central as St Davids depending where you come from. Also permitted routeings from Central can be very dfferent due to negative easements.

 

[Goatboy]

It's a 10 minute walk from St Davids anyway if push comes to shove.

 

[455driver]

It's a 10 minute walk from St Davids anyway if push comes to shove.

Up a steep hill!