Experiences of passenger communication alarms being used

[trebor79]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/valid-usage-of-pass-com-or-slamdunk-court-case.223713/

Many years ago on a packed train and very delayed out of Newcastle, someone missed their stop at Chester-le-Street. We were already out of the platform by the time she got to the vestibule and announced "Oh, I'll just pull the handle then". A couple of folk "politely" informed her that she should do no such thing, and just change at Durham for the next train back.

So, at least some people think it's a valid use, but fortunately sense prevailed on that particular day!

 

[LowLevel]

Many years ago on a packed train and very delayed out of Newcastle, someone missed their stop at Chester-le-Street. We were already out of the platform by the time she got to the vestibule and announced "Oh, I'll just pull the handle then". A couple of folk "politely" informed her that she should do no such thing, and just change at Durham for the next train back.
So, at least some people think it's a valid use, but fortunately sense prevailed on that particular day!

A couple of years ago in my area a lady who had been totally pissed up on Saturday evening took to social media to complain having been the subject of a police identity campaign for pulling the pass com.

What she didn't seem to comprehend was that being pissed as a fart, subsequently taking drunken fright at something, pulling the pass com *out of the wall* subsequently causing the failure and cancellation of the train and then trying to kick the driver's cab door down whilst screaming like a banshee wasn't justifiable behaviour

 

[2192]

Many years ago I boarded a train at Watford Met terminus wanting Baker Street.

Walking by the rear car it said Watford as the driver had been too lazy to change the blind. We set off. The doors opened (not for long) at each station, then suddenly at Harrow on the Hill the driver used the intercom for the first time to say ALL CHANGE. By the time I had gathered my belongings together he had shut the doors again.

Not wanting to end up in the carriage sidings, I yanked on the emergency handle. The train stopped. The doors opened. I got out.

A brief altercation. He reset the emergency handle and drove off. I think he was going off shift and was trying to gain time throughout the journey. I think this was valid use of the emergency handle.

 

[357]

Many years ago I boarded a train at Watford Met terminus wanting Baker Street. Walking by the rear car it said Watford as the driver had been too lazy to change the blind. We set off. The doors opened (not for long) at each station, then suddenly at Harrow on the Hill the driver used the intercom for the first time to say ALL CHANGE. By the time I had gathered my belongings together he had shut the doors again. Not wanting to end up in the carriage sidings, I yanked on the emergency handle. The train stopped. The doors opened. I got out. A brief altercation. He reset the emergency handle and drove off. I think he was going off shift and was trying to gain time throughout the journey. I think this was valid use of the emergency handle.

I absolutely agree with you on that one.

As a side note, throughout my career I have often asked wheelchair users who have been missed and got stuck on a train why they didn't use the PassComm. They have all said they are worried of getting a fine.

As a driver, often we are totally unaware a MIP is on our train if they got on at a terminus or a station with CD/RA. Using the PassComm is the only way we will know there is an issue. The driver can then make arrangements for someone to come to the platform with a ramp.

During my career at various TOCs I have known too many wheelchair users get carried up and down the line for hours after being forgotten about due to them being scared to use the PassComm.

 

[Blinkbonny]

I was once travelling up the Trent Valley line on the all-stations stopper. At Tamworth the rear carriage doors failed to open and a number of passengers waiting patiently to embark and catch connections Northwards were horrified when the train started up and carried them on to Lichfield.

I was under the impression at the time that they would have been perfectly justified in stopping the train as soon as it began to leave - but reading this I'm now not so sure.

 

[357]

I was once travelling up the Trent Valley line on the all-stations stopper. At Tamworth the rear carriage doors failed to open and a number of passengers waiting patiently to embark and catch connections Northwards were horrified when the train started up and carried them on to Lichfield.

I was under the impression at the time that they would have been perfectly justified in stopping the train as soon as it began to leave - but reading this I'm now not so sure.

I'd have no problem with usage in that situation.

I was involved in an incident with 2x321 units some time ago where the doors released in the front unit but not in the rear, as the train departed multiple passcomms were pulled.

Doors not opening is, in my opinion, a pretty serious fault with the train. I think the driver needs to know asap.

Obviously - there's a risk that the driver will walk back and the doors have actually been locked out of use, but I still wouldn't have any problem with it.

 

[221129]

I was under the impression at the time that they would have been perfectly justified in stopping the train as soon as it began to leave - but reading this I'm now not so sure.

That's not an emergency. So no it's not imo a valid use of the passcom.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not an emergency. So no it's not imo a valid use of the passcom.

If the train had already started it's a bit pointless as the outcome will just be to carry on and go back, but would consider it valid to use it while the train was still stationary if a failed door release had obviously occurred with insufficient time to get to a working door, and definitely valid in the case of a total fail-to-call (i.e. didn't stop at all and no announcement) as it could indicate the driver being unwell. I've used it this way (and then the egress because nobody answered it) on a Thameslink at Blackfriars where it had terminated there, seemingly the driver had pressed the release, noticed people stopping alighting, pressed the close and walked off, but it seemed the release had not actually worked in every coach so we couldn't open the doors. Other option was to sleep on there! Clearly demonstrates why the use of porter buttons* to check each coach is the right way to do it.

The other door related one I would use it for is a separated parent and young child, regardless of why it happened, as that is a potential risk to life/health of the child.

I also used it once (while still stationary) when they forgot about a cyclist on a Pendolino at Brum Intl and staff didn't see me shouting and waving at them, where due to the time of day and diversions being on he would have got stranded at MKC if he had been overcarried (and that's a long and hilly cycle ride in the dark potentially without lights). The guard sneered at me a bit (no doubt because he had to walk pretty much the length of the 11-car to release the cyclist and reset the passcom) but did resolve the situation. Similarly I'd strongly consider using it in the event of the failure to provide assistance to a wheelchair user, particularly if they were distressed, though when I've had that happen waving at the guard with my foot in the door has generally worked.

Other time was a father and son on the Tube where the father was clearly unwell (looked like some sort of low grade fit) and the son panicking, again pulled at a station (Victoria, if I recall) to attract the staff's attention. Opinion was split in the coach as to whether it was the right thing to do (as opposed to helping them off and allowing the train to continue) but the staff who attended thought it was.

* 700s don't have physical ones but do have a mode where the normal door buttons can be used to achieve the same thing.

 

[LowLevel]

That's not an emergency. So no it's not imo a valid use of the passcom.

The end doors failing to open would result in the carriage being unfit for service so it certainly warrants getting in touch with the crew for investigation, the easiest means of which is to pull the pass com.

I once worked a train where an end door failed to open for a passenger and they came and found me shortly after we had departed.

Expecting the usual "pressed the close button, pressed the saloon end door button etc etc" issues on arrival at the next station I tested the door and found it was indeed dead and the isolating switch had vibrated it's way over enough to kill the air and power supply but not quite enough to close the switch for the door out of use light.

As a result the vehicle had been running in an unsafe fashion (the door wouldn't have responded to an egress or ingress switch activation) and it was only the passenger alerting me to it that had allowed me to correct it.

Taking a holier than thou view regarding the doors failing to work is a dangerous habit to fall into so I would much rather the passenger pulled the pass com so I can investigate than just curse a bit and get off at the next stop without saying anything. Particularly given the characteristics of the train (DOO, 2 non gangwayed units coupled) may mean that the pass com is the only way of contacting a member of staff to alert them.

 

[Falcon1200]

I was once travelling up the Trent Valley line on the all-stations stopper. At Tamworth the rear carriage doors failed to open and a number of passengers waiting patiently to embark and catch connections Northwards were horrified when the train started up and carried them on to Lichfield.

I was under the impression at the time that they would have been perfectly justified in stopping the train as soon as it began to leave - but reading this I'm now not so sure.

That's not an emergency. So no it's not imo a valid use of the passcom.

What if it was a late-evening service and the passengers believed they would have no way of getting to their destination ?

 

[ninhog]

700s don't have physical ones but do have a mode where the normal door buttons can be used to achieve the same thing.

I believe the 717s have this feature after a later software update. The 700s don’t have this facility.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe the 717s have this feature after a later software update. The 700s don’t have this facility.

Either way, locking up and wandering off without at least looking in the CCTV to see if people were still on board (there was a group of about 10 of us!) was clearly the wrong thing to do.

 

[ninhog]

Either way, locking up and wandering off without at least looking in the CCTV to see if people were still on board (there was a group of about 10 of us!) was clearly the wrong thing to do.

Absolutely. In this scenario though, platform staff should be walking down the train to ensure everyone is off. There are guard panels throughout the train which allow for locally operated door control in the event that any passengers are still onboard.