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Expired 16-25 on Greater Anglia

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Scorpy

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Hello everyone,

2 months ago I boarded a train from London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport (no train changes) to pick up my mom (visiting me, a student, from abroad). The ticket was with a 16-25 railcard. When exiting the train station I presented both my ticket and my 16-25 railcard. Unfortunately, my 16-25 railcard was expired by roughly a week (I completely forgot that it's expired). Thus, I was stopped by a Ticket Officer and asked to talk to the Senior (?) Officer.

I fully admitted that it was my mistake and that I forgot to renew my railcard (I still admit that it was my mistake). The Officer was quite angry at me, kept telling me off to change my attitude (even though I was fully cooperative and admitted that it was my mistake and did not elevate my voice). She then told me that I can pay a fine (roughly 30 pounds), however I did not have any money on money. I did tell her that, that I didn't have any money on me and that my mom has some money for sure and that she would be able to pay. I asked her whether:
1) I could leave her my ID/passport with everything to pick up my mom and then come back to pay the fine,
2) Any of the officers could assist me to pick up my mom and pay the fine,
3) Try to get my mom to come down to the station to pay the fine, which is really difficult since my mom's english is pretty bad and she wouldn't find it too easy to locate the station,

however she did not agree to 1)&2) of that and kept telling me that I am a fraud and that being a student and not having money is still my problem (that's true). And so she told me that she can leave it to the company to judge my case and contact me to sort it out. I told her that I can leave her all my details and that I will cooperate, but I wish I could just pay it in like 3 minutes, if she just believed me (she was pretty mad at this point and I guess she didn't believe me or my story). So I left all of my details, proved my address (she didn't believe me that I am leaving accurate details) and then she told me I can leave.

I exited the station, picked up my mom, told her what happened and we came back to find the Officer and ask her again whether I could pay the fine right there, but she told me it's no good anymore and I should have paid at the moment I was stopped by the Officers. I apologized again for my mistake and left.

Fast forward to now, I have been contacted by Greater Anglia's Prosecutions Unit regarding the offence to respond to their notice with 1)All details that could help them with the incident, 2) Any mitigating factors that I believe may influence their decision about legal proceedings.

Thus, I would like to ask for any advice. Should I present the story at all as the mitigating circumstance (my willingness to pay the fine multiple times, but only after picking up my mom), whether I should just call them and talk to them on the phone or just send in the details myself? What penalty/punishment am I likely to receive? I have purchased a new railcard ever since (like a month later, since I wasn't travelling by train in that month).

I would appreciate any advice, I am quite stressed by this situation since I feel like it could have been so easily avoided but I messed up big time. I am a student (EU), first time in this kind of situation. Haven't been punished before.

Kind Regards,
Scorpy
 
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Islineclear3_1

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The experts will be along soon but technically, your ticket was invalid.

Write back to them, be apologetic and honest and offer a settlement

Don't write wibble such as "she said this and I said that". Keep to the point

The experts will be along with a suggested figure
 
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Scorpy

Member
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31 May 2018
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How serious do you think this is? It's definitely my fault since my ticket was invalid. I just didn't realise it would be escalated to this degree and I honestly thought the Officer would accept the payment after I came back with my mom.

What do you mean by offering a settlement? How likely is this to be a criminal record or to go to court?

Edit: I guess what I mean by that is am I in a terrible position or can I still pay and be fine?
 

Islineclear3_1

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If you reply promptly with a settlement, and Greater Anglia accept it, then the matter will not go to court

I can't suggest an amount but there is the fare due and admin costs etc so probably in the region of around £100?

Wait for one or two of the experts to advise on a suitable figues
 

Trainfan344

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What ticket did you have? How much did you pay? Where did you buy the ticket from? Answering these three questions will help people give better advice on your situation.
 

Scorpy

Member
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31 May 2018
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I can't find those tickets now anymore. It was roughly 15 pounds for the ticket (maybe even 10 with railcard), if I can't find it on my mails then I probably got it from the station.I mostly buy advance tickets but I can't find it anywhere on the app or on my mail, so it must have been an offpeak.

@Edit

Also thinking about it, is it normal for them not to hand me a fine that I could pay later on? Is it normal that I was asked to pay it right there on the spot?
 
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Islineclear3_1

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You were probably offered a penalty fare of £30 - if so, technically, this is not a fine and yes, this can be normal

You probably failed the attitude test - hence not being given a chance to pay it when you returned with your mum therefore....

It is probably going to work out more expensive for you now
 

Haywain

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What ticket did you have? How much did you pay? Where did you buy the ticket from? Answering these three questions will help people give better advice on your situation.
Im not sure that this is of any real relevance as the ticket was invalid whatever it was due to the absence of a valid railcard.
 

Scorpy

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Yes, it probably was the 30pounds penalty fare, but I wasn't able to pay it then.

I think I could have failed it because the Officer really kept telling me to change my attitude even thought I tried my best to be cooperative (might be just due to a misunderstanding). Is it normal for them not to give me a penalty notice to pay later though?

And how do I write with the settlement? Do I state how much I will pay them or how do I know that?
 

Islineclear3_1

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Have a look around this section of the forum for similar cases to get an idea, but remember every case is different

Are you under 18? The rules might be different. If you are 18 or over, then give them an offer (at least to cover the fare due + administration costs)
 

Scorpy

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I am over 18. Since the fare was supposed to be 15 pounds, do you think 100 pounds sounds reasonable? Is it not bad from me to offer them settlements? Shouldn't I wait for them to offer it first? Sorry, I don't want them to think I just want to pay my way out.
 

Islineclear3_1

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I don't think they will offer you a settlement. You will need to write a very apologetic letter; be brief and to the point, understand you have made a mistake and won't do it again. Find out what the non-discounted fare would be from Liverpool Street to Stansted and offer them maybe 2 -3 times the amount + admin costs. I wouldn't really want to suggest a figure but try maybe £100?

Post your letter here leaving out all personal details so that someone can check it for you. And ensure it is grammatically correct
 
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