Extension of Bedwyn stoppers to Westbury

[JohnRegular]

(This may not be a wholly original idea but I couldn't find anything from a search...)
Why not extend Bedwyn stoppers to the more logical terminus of Westbury? I supppose I know the answer, which is that it would require at least one extra unit (and staff) to operate, and possibly also require reinstating 'platform 0' at Westbury (though this is being mooted anyway for improvements to the TransWilts service). But the current situation is a bit absurd, only a few trains call at both Westbury and Bedwyn/Hungerford (none at Kintbury I believe?), and although doubling back at Newbury is possible, journey planners don't offer it as an option, and I can only assume it wouldn't be a valid route.

I appreciate that Westbury and Hungerford are not vast metropolises with swathes of untapped demand for direct journies, however, many more locations can be accessed with a change at Westbury. It seems like an unecessary gap in connectivity, and if such a service existed today I doubt there would be any suggesting it should be cut.

Besides this, it would also give Pewsey a regular local service. 'Devizes Parkway' is also something being seriously considered, is this only going to be served by Paddington trains? Is there any value in having a more regular service between Westbury and Newbury?

So whay do you think, would such an extension be a waste of resources, carting around fresh air? Or would the connectivity for local stations on the line be worth it?

 

[JonathanH]

But the current situation is a bit absurd

Not really - there isn't enough demand - if Bedwyn was on a branch which split at Newbury no one would think it absurd at all. Effectively, Bedwyn is on that branch.

 

[TXMISTA]

Slightly OT but how well used are Paddington - Bedwyn direct services? Presumably most traffic at Bedwyn comes from surrounding towns without a rail service like Marlborough.

 

[cle]

It makes sense on the map - and possibly once Warminster, Trowbridge and Bradford's direct (Waterloo) services go, there will be more connecting at Westbury in the area. But stock and the additional distance make it unviable. Taking up Pewsey and possibly even going to Frome might stimulate some demand from underserved areas, but I suspect these folks railhead into Westbury for the fasts already, or to Chippenham - so wouldn't be net new travellers. In an ideal world, sure - but unlikely to be a priority and Westbury itself is tiny and meh.

 

[stuu]

I can't see there being anything like enough demand, the places are very small and a long way apart. I suspect Pewsey's current service is the best it has ever had. There might be some merit in stopping the Exeter semi-fasts at Hungerford as well but that's about it

 

[JohnRegular]

It's probably fair to say there isn't the demand to make it worthwhile- probably a bit of a crayonist desire to join things up on the map.

But, can anyone enlighten me as to why doubling back via Newbury isn't permitted for an e.g. Westbury-Hungerford ticket? Inputting this into a journey planner only returns the handful of early morning direct trains. It definitely seems absurd that such a journey is impossible for most of the day! (Perhaps this should be asked in the ticketing section...)

 

[Kite159]

It's probably fair to say there isn't the demand to make it worthwhile- probably a bit of a crayonist desire to join things up on the map.

But, can anyone enlighten me as to why doubling back via Newbury isn't permitted for an e.g. Westbury-Hungerford ticket? Inputting this into a journey planner only returns the handful of early morning direct trains. It definitely seems absurd that such a journey is impossible for most of the day! (Perhaps this should be asked in the ticketing section...)

I believe there is an actual easement, but seems the text of it (700932 "Customers travelling from Pewsey to Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury may travel via Newbury and doubleback to their destination station. This Local easement will overcome local fares checking that shows that fares to Newbury from Pewsey are higher than the fares to the required destination. And therefore preventing a doubleback journey leg from Newbury. This easement will apply in both directions") suggests it only works for Pewsey and not Westbury & beyond

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As for extending the Bedwyn services to Westbury, in theory it's a good idea as it gives Pewsey an hourly service (and also Westbury an hourly London Paddington service, all be it a stopper). Would allow the 2 hourly Exeter "Semi-fasts" to skip Pewsey and maybe run fast between Newbury & Westbury before carrying on. Better use than using a 5 coach IET to Bedwyn when for years it had a 3 coach Turbo [the IET only being needed between Reading & Paddington as it can run at 125 rather than having a 90mph 165 taking up a path on the mains[

 

[PTR 444]

Rather than extending the Bedwyn terminator, I would extend the Newbury terminator which runs in the opposite hour to the Exeter semi-fast. This could run to Frome calling at Bedwyn, Pewsey and Westbury en-route. Achieves the purpose of the OP but to a more sensible provision to match demand.

 

[30907]

Rather than extending the Bedwyn terminator, I would extend the Newbury terminator which runs in the opposite hour to the Exeter semi-fast. This could run to Frome calling at Bedwyn, Pewsey and Westbury en-route. Achieves the purpose of the OP but to a more sensible provision to match demand.

...and adding Kintbury and Hungerford stops would mean you could withdraw the Bedwyn terminators altogether. Might not be popular
Seriously, surely Hungerford is busier than Bedwyn?
(Corrected, repeated autocarrot - ATC? - failure)

 

[PTR 444]

...and adding Kintbury and Hungerford stops would mean you could withdraw the Bedwyn terminators altogether. Might not be popular
Seriously, surely Hungerford is busier than Berwyn?

True, but having it stop at Bedwyn means you don’t have to double back to travel west.

Additionally, if you withdrew the Bedwyn terminator (or combine it with the Exeter semi-fast), there would be enough room to run an hourly London - Newbury service using Class 387s only.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Hungerford is much busier than Bedwyn. The local traffic at Bedwyn is minimal, stopping at Hungerford would mean it’s only Bedwyn that has to double back.

There are plenty of cases in this county where there’s no regular service between adjacent stations; Redbridge and Totton, Pinhoe and St James Park, Patchway and Bristol Parkway, Morpeth and Alnmouth are a few which spring to mind.

 

[stuu]

Hungerford is much busier than Bedwyn. The local traffic at Bedwyn is minimal, stopping at Hungerford would mean it’s only Bedwyn that has to double back.

It is odd that Bedwyn survived at all, there really is nothing there. Presumably a cabinet minister or high ranking civil servant lived nearby in the 1960s?

 

[PTR 444]

Morpeth and Alnmouth

These two are not adjacent stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is odd that Bedwyn survived at all, there really is nothing there. Presumably a cabinet minister or high ranking civil servant lived nearby in the 1960s?

Wiki suggests it is a railhead for Marlborough with bus connections. Though that isn't huge either, and road-wise Pewsey doesn't seem any less convenient (if a kilometre or two further).

 

[30907]

It is odd that Bedwyn survived at all, there really is nothing there. Presumably a cabinet minister or high ranking civil servant lived nearby in the 1960s?

IIRC it was the furthest station to stay open before the Divisional boundary. It was easy to provide a turnback when the stopping service beyond was withdrawn.

 

[brad465]

As for extending the Bedwyn services to Westbury, in theory it's a good idea as it gives Pewsey an hourly service (and also Westbury an hourly London Paddington service, all be it a stopper). Would allow the 2 hourly Exeter "Semi-fasts" to skip Pewsey and maybe run fast between Newbury & Westbury before carrying on. Better use than using a 5 coach IET to Bedwyn when for years it had a 3 coach Turbo [the IET only being needed between Reading & Paddington as it can run at 125 rather than having a 90mph 165 taking up a path on the mains[

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought pre-covid the new GWR timetable provided an hourly Exeter semi-fast service that was Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, (sometimes Tiverton), Exeter St Davids, with occasional extensions to Paignton/Plymouth, that meant Pewsey and Westbury already had hourly London services. I believe at the moment it's hourly minus a few services.

From previous recent experience of passing through Westbury, I've seen housing developments emerge there recently that suggest demand will increase, so if the case for extra services there doesn't exist now it could still do in the near future.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

IIRC it was the furthest station to stay open before the Divisional boundary. It was easy to provide a turnback when the stopping service beyond was withdrawn.

Wasn't it one of the boundaries of the NSE area? But perhaps it had been used as a terminator for Paddington DMU services long before that.

 

[cle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought pre-covid the new GWR timetable provided an hourly Exeter semi-fast service that was Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, (sometimes Tiverton), Exeter St Davids, with occasional extensions to Paignton/Plymouth, that meant Pewsey and Westbury already had hourly London services. I believe at the moment it's hourly minus a few services.

From previous recent experience of passing through Westbury, I've seen housing developments emerge there recently that suggest demand will increase, so if the case for extra services there doesn't exist now it could still do in the near future.

That Exeter service is every 2 hours. Westbury and Newbury are on the odd Cornish service, but it's basically a two hourly service for the likes of Castle Cary and Pewsey. Some peak extras.

Westbury really should be the target of more development. Tons more. The fastest service is 1h11 that I can see - pretty decent for the distance and gives a fast Reading link for jobs and connections there. And of course it has good connections in every direction, to Bath (24mins) and Bristol (38mins which also have good employment and cultural activities. It's actually a pretty smart location to build out, on balance.

 

[Horizon22]

Rather than extending the Bedwyn terminator, I would extend the Newbury terminator which runs in the opposite hour to the Exeter semi-fast. This could run to Frome calling at Bedwyn, Pewsey and Westbury en-route. Achieves the purpose of the OP but to a more sensible provision to match demand.

That would be nice if it wasn't normally running as a 387 and requires wires...

It is odd that Bedwyn survived at all, there really is nothing there. Presumably a cabinet minister or high ranking civil servant lived nearby in the 1960s?

Operational convenience I think more than anything. It just sort of happening to be the end of NSE as well so I guess over time it's stuck.

 

[TheWalrus]

I can't see there being anything like enough demand, the places are very small and a long way apart. I suspect Pewsey's current service is the best it has ever had. There might be some merit in stopping the Exeter semi-fasts at Hungerford as well but that's about it

Agreed they should at least call at Hungerford and maybe Bedwyn as well. Pewsey produces a lot of passengers, a lot more than Bedwyn.

 

[Towers]

No particular opinion on what should happen along the B&H, but can I suggest adding Slough stops on PAD - BDW services, and removing them from the Worcester/Malvern/Hereford trains? The local stopper nature of the Bedwyns seems far better suited to calling intermediate RDG - PAD stations that a train going all the way to Hereford.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Westbury really should be the target of more development. Tons more. The fastest service is 1h11 that I can see - pretty decent for the distance and gives a fast Reading link for jobs and connections there. And of course it has good connections in every direction, to Bath (24mins) and Bristol (38mins which also have good employment and cultural activities. It's actually a pretty smart location to build out, on balance.

But there’s nothing there!!

 

[JN114]

There was a (milk?) siding at Bedwyn that was usefully able to be repurposed as a turnback when the local goods traffic died down, and the services on the B&H that diverted at Savernake ceased and were replaced by DMUs from Reading. The stations beyond Bedwyn were thenceforth served by bus connection at Bedwyn.

Of tangential interest, the signalling controls to allow the detachment of a portion of a freight train approaching Bedwyn (up direction), wagons shunted into the siding and Loco reattach still exist; even with the re-control to TVSC.

No particular opinion on what should happen along the B&H, but can I suggest adding Slough stops on PAD - BDW services, and removing them from the Worcester/Malvern/Hereford trains? The local stopper nature of the Bedwyns seems far better suited to calling intermediate RDG - PAD stations that a train going all the way to Hereford.

It’s only 3/6 London-bound Herefords that call at Slough; and 3/5 country bound. The remainder are already fast Paddington to Reading.

The other consideration is both Slough (for Windsor) and Oxford have huge tourist trade between them; plus employment and student travel between them in both directions. That existing demand is why there’s always been a fast London - Slough - Reading - Oxford service; and resistance when the Slough calls have been moved out of the Oxfords in the past - in FGW Link days they did almost exactly what you propose - moved the calls out of the beyond-Oxford services and into the short lived Paddington - Exeter stopper Adelante services which ran in the same hours. Result was massive overcrowding, even in off peak daytime, of the Oxford trains from Slough.

And that’s before you look at practicalities of re-jigging the whole timetable to make it work - the Bedwyn will miss its slot on the Reading to Southcote corridor; which means either retiming the train earlier from Paddington (it can’t as it follows the West of England fast), or later from Slough; which will involve messing round with Basingstokes and Cross Countrys and Freight… Not impossible, but not really worth it when - the train service currently matches demand better; and the only benefit is shaving maybe 2-3 minutes off London to Worcester times.

 

[Horizon22]

No particular opinion on what should happen along the B&H, but can I suggest adding Slough stops on PAD - BDW services, and removing them from the Worcester/Malvern/Hereford trains? The local stopper nature of the Bedwyns seems far better suited to calling intermediate RDG - PAD stations that a train going all the way to Hereford.

Slough through to Oxford is not an insignificant flow and it’s half-hourly so there’s a fair amount of circulation on them. That and the reasonable demand for Windsor.

If anything, I’d suggest a Maidenhead call on the Bedwyns which could work in the down direction as the depart Paddington at xx07. Maidenhead doesn’t really have fast service at all now and could be a good compromise for a similar sized town. As @JN114 mentions though, the critical point is Southcote junction so you’d have to work backwards from there and ensure timings with the stoppers, freight and fast services work.

The B&H already has so much mixed traffic on it on what is essentially two-track (with some loops at Theale / Newbury Racecourse) and junctions with freight and terminating services that a lot of caution should be given to amending it too much.

 

[JamesRowden]

Replace the Paddington-Bedwyn service with a Reading-Westbury-Bristol stopper. The Paddington-Newbury service and semi-fast Paddington-Exeter service can then run hourly (with the latter running non-stop between Newbury and Westbury).

 

[stuu]

Replace the Paddington-Bedwyn service with a Reading-Westbury-Bristol stopper.

I'd be interested to know how many passengers that would have between Hungerford and Westbury, I suspect a taxi would be better use of resources but I might be wrong

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Replace the Paddington-Bedwyn service with a Reading-Westbury-Bristol stopper

Sounds a very expensive use of an Intercity train

 

[JamesRowden]

Sounds a very expensive use of an Intercity train

Just use a 15X/16X/769

 

[Horizon22]

Just use a 15X/16X/769

So a significant capacity downgrade for all involved then? People in Hungerford are already annoyed about their loss of direct trains to London.

 

[JamesRowden]

So a significant capacity downgrade for all involved then? People in Hungerford are already annoyed about their loss of direct trains to London.

Pretty much the same as at present, except the Newbury-Bedwyn service would be a Reading-Bristol service, and there would be an additional Paddington-Newbury 387 and Paddington-Exeter service every 2 hours.

The Reading-Newbury stoppers could be withdrawn since the Reading-Bristol service and additional Paddington-Newbury and Paddington-Exeter services should meet demand.