Fare Evasion

[Spacerock]

Hello there , I am looking for advice, I have been caught not having valid ticket when I traveled and didn’t tap it on as it wasn’t outside of my travel zone . Guy said I will receive letter and might go to court as I was committing fraud. Please help what do I do I am so scared

 

[AlterEgo]

Welcome to the forum. Please enlighten us with the following information so people can help you:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations where you started & finished your journey;
  • The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
  • Uploading copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.
• Be careful not to post anything incriminating or personally identifying
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory

 

[Spacerock]

Welcome to the forum. Please enlighten us with the following information so people can help you:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations where you started & finished your journey;
  • The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
  • Uploading copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.
• Be careful not to post anything incriminating or personally identifying
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory

I started my journey using bus to Grove Park , didn’t tap in Grove Park and came out London Bridge, I usually top up zone 1 to 3 and they saw it I traveled from zone 4 didn’t tap it on , i am happy to pay fine but not get criminal record

 

[Brissle Girl]

i am happy to pay fine but not get criminal record

Unfortunately what you are happy with doesn't count for anything, as it's the railway company you were stopped by which will decide.

Did you get any paperwork? If so, please upload it, with any identifying information obscured. We need to know which rail company will be dealing with your case.

 

[Spacerock]

Unfortunately what you are happy with doesn't count for anything, as it's the railway company you were stopped by which will decide.

Did you get any paperwork? If so, please upload it, with any identifying information obscured. We need to know which rail company will be dealing with your case.

It was sutherneaster , they gave me recipient but I lots it can’t find it , I was so stressed that I almost collapsed, I was diagnosed with severe iron deficiency and get dizziness really often. Guy told me they send me letter and I have to be honest and reply it . I asked him will be serious and he said no if I pay fine . I go to the court if I don’t .

 

[Titfield]

You need to contact South Eastern as a matter of urgency and get a copy of the paperwork / the details of the alleged offence so that you can act upon it.

Whether you have lost it, misplaced it or forgotten it does not matter. If you fail to respond then then the matter will spiral out of control and could end up costing you a great deal of money.

I am sorry to hear about your health issue and its impact on you but this does not absolve you from the responsibility to pay your fare or allow you to ignore this matter.

I am sorry if this sounds very harsh and unsympathetic but the advice I am giving you is the best advice. Do not delay. Contact them today.

 

[Brissle Girl]

You need to contact South Eastern as a matter of urgency and get a copy of the paperwork / the details of the alleged offence so that you can act upon it.

Whether you have lost it, misplaced it or forgotten it does not matter. If you fail to respond then then the matter will spiral out of control and could end up costing you a great deal of money.

I am sorry to hear about your health issue and its impact on you but this does not absolve you from the responsibility to pay your fare or allow you to ignore this matter.

I am sorry if this sounds very harsh and unsympathetic but the advice I am giving you is the best advice. Do not delay. Contact them today.

Surely if they have been told they will get a letter then this isn’t necessary, assuming the correct name and address was given?

 

[WesternLancer]

It was sutherneaster , they gave me recipient but I lots it can’t find it , I was so stressed that I almost collapsed, I was diagnosed with severe iron deficiency and get dizziness really often. Guy told me they send me letter and I have to be honest and reply it . I asked him will be serious and he said no if I pay fine . I go to the court if I don’t .

OK - welcome to the forum - you will get good advice here on how to negotiate the process. I sense that perhaps English is not your first language, so people can help you get the wording of what you need to say in reply to the letter as best as it can be.

It's a shame you have lost your paperwork, that is not ideal*. I assume you gave them a correct postal address where you can get your post over the next few weeks and months - this is vital especially if you have lost paperwork you were given.

Southeastern Trains are reasonable to deal with and a good chance they will agree to settle matters out of court if you follow advice from this forum. This can not be guaranteed however.

But to be clear you need to understand (and you can look at other threads for examples) the process involved. So I doubt very much they are going to send you a letter asking you to pay a 'fine' or penalty fare as you may have seen on posters on the railway. Your letter will probably say they are considering prosecuting you at court but asking you to reply with your side of the story. This is your chance to apologize and ask if they might be prepared to consider letting you pay them what you owe them for missed fares etc as an alternative to taking you to court.

My advice at this stage is:

- watch out for their letter, when you get it head back here for advice on what to do next and how to reply to that in a way that maximises the chance of you not being taken to court
- save up some money to pay them - as if they agree to settle the matter out of court they will want payment in full within a very short time
- make sure you make no ticketing errors or evade paying any fares at all on any journeys you take from now on as they will be investigating your ticket and travel patterns
- Their investigation will involve lookin at your touch in history and ticket buying so be prepared for them to find any other issues that such investigation might reveal.

I hope this helps you to prepare for what will happen next.

*edit - as mentioned up thread it may be a good idea to contact Southeastern to see if they can issue you with a replacement copy of whatever you were given on the day. This helps people give you the correct advice on what to do.

Surely if they have been told they will get a letter then this isn’t necessary, assuming the correct name and address was given?

Yes, assuming they were in fact reported for investigation for a 'ticketing irregularity' of course, and not given a Penalty Fare - already confused in the OP's account by reference to them expecting to be able to 'pay a fine'.

 

[Spacerock]

OK - welcome to the forum - you will get good advice here on how to negotiate the process. I sense that perhaps English is not your first language, so people can help you get the wording of what you need to say in reply to the letter as best as it can be.

It's a shame you have lost your paperwork, that is not ideal*. I assume you gave them a correct postal address where you can get your post over the next few weeks and months - this is vital especially if you have lost paperwork you were given.

Southeastern Trains are reasonable to deal with and a good chance they will agree to settle matters out of court if you follow advice from this forum. This can not be guaranteed however.

But to be clear you need to understand (and you can look at other threads for examples) the process involved. So I doubt very much they are going to send you a letter asking you to pay a 'fine' or penalty fare as you may have seen on posters on the railway. Your letter will probably say they are considering prosecuting you at court but asking you to reply with your side of the story. This is your chance to apologize and ask if they might be prepared to consider letting you pay them what you owe them for missed fares etc as an alternative to taking you to court.

My advice at this stage is:

- watch out for their letter, when you get it head back here for advice on what to do next and how to reply to that in a way that maximises the chance of you not being taken to court
- save up some money to pay them - as if they agree to settle the matter out of court they will want payment in full within a very short time
- make sure you make no ticketing errors or evade paying any fares at all on any journeys you take from now on as they will be investigating your ticket and travel patterns
- Their investigation will involve lookin at your touch in history and ticket buying so be prepared for them to find any other issues that such investigation might reveal.

I hope this helps you to prepare for what will happen next.

*edit - as mentioned up thread it may be a good idea to contact Southeastern to see if they can issue you with a replacement copy of whatever you were given on the day. This helps people give you the correct advice on what to do.


Yes, assuming they were in fact reported for investigation for a 'ticketing irregularity' of course, and not given a Penalty Fare - already confused in the OP's account by reference to them expecting to be able to 'pay a fine'.

Thank you , I think I gave them correct address as I said wasn’t feeling well and felt quite dizzy even asked for water but they refused, I have done it over two months , I just used to not tap in that station but had valid ticket for onward journey.
Like buying zone 123 instead 1234 .
Thank you , I am really shaking, blaming myself for being stupid not having correct ticket , how far they can trace it back ?

OK - welcome to the forum - you will get good advice here on how to negotiate the process. I sense that perhaps English is not your first language, so people can help you get the wording of what you need to say in reply to the letter as best as it can be.

It's a shame you have lost your paperwork, that is not ideal*. I assume you gave them a correct postal address where you can get your post over the next few weeks and months - this is vital especially if you have lost paperwork you were given.

Southeastern Trains are reasonable to deal with and a good chance they will agree to settle matters out of court if you follow advice from this forum. This can not be guaranteed however.

But to be clear you need to understand (and you can look at other threads for examples) the process involved. So I doubt very much they are going to send you a letter asking you to pay a 'fine' or penalty fare as you may have seen on posters on the railway. Your letter will probably say they are considering prosecuting you at court but asking you to reply with your side of the story. This is your chance to apologize and ask if they might be prepared to consider letting you pay them what you owe them for missed fares etc as an alternative to taking you to court.

My advice at this stage is:

- watch out for their letter, when you get it head back here for advice on what to do next and how to reply to that in a way that maximises the chance of you not being taken to court
- save up some money to pay them - as if they agree to settle the matter out of court they will want payment in full within a very short time
- make sure you make no ticketing errors or evade paying any fares at all on any journeys you take from now on as they will be investigating your ticket and travel patterns
- Their investigation will involve lookin at your touch in history and ticket buying so be prepared for them to find any other issues that such investigation might reveal.

I hope this helps you to prepare for what will happen next.

*edit - as mentioned up thread it may be a good idea to contact Southeastern to see if they can issue you with a replacement copy of whatever you were given on the day. This helps people give you the correct advice on what to do.


Yes, assuming they were in fact reported for investigation for a 'ticketing irregularity' of course, and not given a Penalty Fare - already confused in the OP's account by reference to them expecting to be able to 'pay a fine'.

So should I contact them ? Thank you

 

[Titfield]

Thank you , I think I gave them correct address as I said wasn’t feeling well and felt quite dizzy even asked for water but they refused, I have done it over two months , I just used to not tap in that station but had valid ticket for onward journey.
Like buying zone 123 instead 1234 .
Thank you , I am really shaking, blaming myself for being stupid not having correct ticket , how far they can trace it back ?


So should I contact them ? Thank you

Were you using an oyster card or a bank payment card? Normally they can trace back quite a way to look for any other ticketing / payment issues.

Do not get overly distressed by this. This forum sees hundreds of issues similar to this and they do get resolved.

In my opinion I would contact them to try and ascertain what they gave you as this will guide our response. I think this is the best course of action because you (and we) will know what the situation is as there seems to be some confusion. Are you definitely sure you were told you will get a letter? If so then wait for letter. As soon as it arrives upload it to here with your personal details obscured. We can then give you advice appropriate to your situation.

If you have medical issues then do seek medical help.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you , I think I gave them correct address as I said wasn’t feeling well and felt quite dizzy even asked for water but they refused, I have done it over two months , I just used to not tap in that station but had valid ticket for onward journey.
Like buying zone 123 instead 1234 .
Thank you , I am really shaking, blaming myself for being stupid not having correct ticket , how far they can trace it back ?


So should I contact them ? Thank you

I suspect they can trace it back for some period (probably several years if required).

You could wait maybe a week or two before trying to contact them - but IF you were given a Penalty Fare the sum is reduced from £100 to £50 if paid promptly - so that is something not to miss out on - but without the paperwork it's hard to know if you were given a Penalty Fare or not - can you recall anything about what paperwork you were given? what it said?
were you given a chance to pay a penalty or 'fine' there and then? or were you only told to wait for a letter?

 

[Spacerock]

Were you using an oyster card or a bank payment card? Normally they can trace back quite a way to look for any other ticketing / payment issues.

Do not get overly distressed by this. This forum sees hundreds of issues similar to this and they do get resolved.

In my opinion I would contact them to try and ascertain what they gave you as this will guide our response. I think this is the best course of action because you (and we) will know what the situation is as there seems to be some confusion. Are you definitely sure you were told you will get a letter? If so then wait for letter. As soon as it arrives upload it to here with your personal details obscured. We can then give you advice appropriate to your situation.

If you have medical issues then do seek medical help.

Oyster card unfortunately, I buy weekly pass every week. Yes definitely I started crying when ticket officer said I might go to court and get criminal offence, other officer told me when they contact me I should be honest and they will settle matter with asking me to pay difference or fine not huge amount he said .

I suspect they can trace it back for some period (probably several years if required).

You could wait maybe a week or two before trying to contact them - but IF you were given a Penalty Fare the sum is reduced from £100 to £50 if paid promptly - so that is something not to miss out on - but without the paperwork it's hard to know if you were given a Penalty Fare or not - can you recall anything about what paperwork you were given? what it said?
were you given a chance to pay a penalty or 'fine' there and then? or were you only told to wait for a letter?

ticket guy printed it from his machine he had with it two copies one he kept it himself one he gave it to me , sorry can’t remember everything was so blurry

 

[Titfield]

Oyster card unfortunately, I buy weekly pass every week. Yes definitely I started crying when ticket officer said I might go to court and get criminal offence, other officer told me when they contact me I should be honest and they will settle matter with asking me to pay difference or fine not huge amount he said .

The reality is that you have not been paying the correct fare and you have been caught. The issue now is to put that matter right. Most Train Operating Companies take a relatively pragmatic view of this. They will seek to recover the fares you havent paid plus an administration fee on top. Some Train Operating Companies charge you the difference between the fare you have paid and the fare you should have paid, whereas some charge you for a complete new ticket and disregard the fare you have paid already. They have to be convinced that you will not do this again. If they offer you this, it is usually called an Out of Court Settlement, then once you have paid the matter is over. If you do not pay or they are not convinced that you will not do this again then they will take you to court where the penalty is much higher and you will receive a criminal record. However let us not get ahead of ourselves. There is no need to panic or imagine the worst will happen. Let us see what the letter says and we can go from there.

 

[Spacerock]

The reality is that you have not been paying the correct fare and you have been caught. The issue now is to put that matter right. Most Train Operating Companies take a relatively pragmatic view of this. They will seek to recover the fares you havent paid plus an administration fee on top. Some Train Operating Companies charge you the difference between the fare you have paid and the fare you should have paid, whereas some charge you for a complete new ticket and disregard the fare you have paid already. They have to be convinced that you will not do this again. If they offer you this, it is usually called an Out of Court Settlement, then once you have paid the matter is over. If you do not pay or they are not convinced that you will not do this again then they will take you to court where the penalty is much higher and you will receive a criminal record. However let us not get ahead of ourselves. There is no need to panic or imagine the worst will happen. Let us see what the letter says and we can go from there.

Thank you , guy said same thing if I correctly remember. I definitely upload letter when I receive it , thank you for all the support and help, really appreciate it .

I suspect they can trace it back for some period (probably several years if required).

You could wait maybe a week or two before trying to contact them - but IF you were given a Penalty Fare the sum is reduced from £100 to £50 if paid promptly - so that is something not to miss out on - but without the paperwork it's hard to know if you were given a Penalty Fare or not - can you recall anything about what paperwork you were given? what it said?
were you given a chance to pay a penalty or 'fine' there and then? or were you only told to wait for a letter?

Haven’t given chance to pay penalty there, what they gave me was pice of paper printed from the machine they had with them .

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you , guy said same thing if I correctly remember. I definitely upload letter when I receive it , thank you for all the support and help, really appreciate it .


Haven’t given chance to pay penalty there, what they gave me was pice of paper printed from the machine they had with them .

OK thanks for clarifying - sounds like it was not a Penalty Fare then.

 

[MikeWh]

Looking to the future, you don't say where you are coming from by bus, but does the bus carry on towards Lee? Lee station is in zone 3 and would therefore be valid with your travelcard. This has no bearing on the current issue, but might help you to legally afford the fares in future.

 

[Spacerock]

thank you , I will not do it ever again, I have been struggling financially , I know it’s not excuse for that but I rather not eat and pay for ticket to go to work .

 

[island]

Looking to the future, you don't say where you are coming from by bus, but does the bus carry on towards Lee? Lee station is in zone 3 and would therefore be valid with your travelcard. This has no bearing on the current issue, but might help you to legally afford the fares in future.

And even if it doesn’t, the OP could use a second bus, such as the 261, to get from Grove Park on to Lee or Lewisham.

 

[Greyman1]

The maximum data that TFL will disclose is 8 weeks as per their data policy I have found. So unless you told the inspector you have been doing it for longer, 8 weeks is the most they will have evidence of. Its one zone, it won't be too bad, but expect to have to pay the outstanding fares and a bit on tip as others have said.
I'm sure they will offer you a settlement.

 

[Haywain]

So unless you told the inspector you have been doing it for longer, 8 weeks is the most they will have evidence of.

That's just not going to be true. TfL keep the dsta for much longer but it is anonymised and they would be able to access it for investigation. However, as the OP is dealing with Southeastern we don't know what they can and will find out.

 

[Spacerock]

The maximum data that TFL will disclose is 8 weeks as per their data policy I have found. So unless you told the inspector you have been doing it for longer, 8 weeks is the most they will have evidence of. Its one zone, it won't be too bad, but expect to have to pay the outstanding fares and a bit on tip as others have said.
I'm sure they will offer you a settlement.

I haven’t said anything, I was really upset, started crying. I thought he was giving me a ticket, I didn’t know it was that serious otherwise I wouldn’t have done it , i had 123 zone ticket Oyster card but not had right to travel zone 4 which I did because there is no gate.
Thank you , hopefully it won’t be serious.

 

[Titfield]

I haven’t said anything, I was really upset, started crying. I thought he was giving me a ticket, I didn’t know it was that serious otherwise I wouldn’t done it , i had 123 zone ticket Oyster card but not had right to travel zone 4 which I did because there is no gate.

Try not to get stressed by this.

Once the letter arrives, upload it here with any identifying details obscured. The forum members will then give you advice specific to the letter you have received.

 

[Spacerock]

That's just not going to be true. TfL keep the dsta for much longer but it is anonymised and they would be able to access it for investigation. However, as the OP is dealing with Southeastern we don't know what they can and will find out.

I have been using this Oyster card since January, around January I lost mine , it fell out of my pocket when I I was running catch the train . Since money was tight one of my friend told me he had spear Oyster card at home he wasn’t using as he was driving to work so he gave it to me .

 

[Greyman1]

That's just not going to be true. TfL keep the dsta for much longer but it is anonymised and they would be able to access it for investigation. However, as the OP is dealing with Southeastern we don't know what they can and will find out.

True. They hold data for longer but TFL will not provide any more than 8 weeks data to a TOC for investigative purposes. So... 8 weeks is the maximum amount of data a TOC will have to work with.

 

[MikeWh]

My understanding, and I'd love an authoritative source to prove this one way or the other, is that history is ordinarily only kept for 8 weeks. At that point it is anonymised so that overall usage data is available, but no way of linking to the individual cards. The exception is when TfL become aware of an issue which requires a potentially lengthy investigation. At that point history for that card only is transferred to a separate system before anonymisation.

 

[Spacerock]

True. They hold data for longer but TFL will not provide any more than 8 weeks data to a TOC for investigative purposes. So... 8 weeks is the maximum amount of data a TOC will have to work with.

Should I call them and ask for out of court settlement, I have lost printed paper ticket officer gave me.

 

[Greyman1]

Just try and relax. They will write to you.

 

[Camsus]

True. They hold data for longer but TFL will not provide any more than 8 weeks data to a TOC for investigative purposes. So... 8 weeks is the maximum amount of data a TOC will have to work with.

8 weeks of tap data is correct but the report that TfL provides to the ToC also provides a summary of any weekly or monthly season tickets that were purchased by the Oyster user, often from several months previously.
So let's say someone has been travelling between zones 1-6 for 8 months whilst using zones 1-3 weekly tickets, the report TfL provide will show 8 weeks of tap data, but the ticket summary on the report could show the zones 1-3 weekly tickets that had been purchased months before.

 

[Spacerock]

Just try and relax. They will write to you.

Ok , thank you .

Hello everyone I have received letter from them inviting to tell my side of the story , they got my surname wrong but don’t matter now how should I respond to this please.

Were you using an oyster card or a bank payment card? Normally they can trace back quite a way to look for any other ticketing / payment issues.

Do not get overly distressed by this. This forum sees hundreds of issues similar to this and they do get resolved.

In my opinion I would contact them to try and ascertain what they gave you as this will guide our response. I think this is the best course of action because you (and we) will know what the situation is as there seems to be some confusion. Are you definitely sure you were told you will get a letter? If so then wait for letter. As soon as it arrives upload it to here with your personal details obscured. We can then give you advice appropriate to your situation.

If you have medical issues then do seek medical help.

OK - welcome to the forum - you will get good advice here on how to negotiate the process. I sense that perhaps English is not your first language, so people can help you get the wording of what you need to say in reply to the letter as best as it can be.

It's a shame you have lost your paperwork, that is not ideal*. I assume you gave them a correct postal address where you can get your post over the next few weeks and months - this is vital especially if you have lost paperwork you were given.

Southeastern Trains are reasonable to deal with and a good chance they will agree to settle matters out of court if you follow advice from this forum. This can not be guaranteed however.

But to be clear you need to understand (and you can look at other threads for examples) the process involved. So I doubt very much they are going to send you a letter asking you to pay a 'fine' or penalty fare as you may have seen on posters on the railway. Your letter will probably say they are considering prosecuting you at court but asking you to reply with your side of the story. This is your chance to apologize and ask if they might be prepared to consider letting you pay them what you owe them for missed fares etc as an alternative to taking you to court.

My advice at this stage is:

- watch out for their letter, when you get it head back here for advice on what to do next and how to reply to that in a way that maximises the chance of you not being taken to court
- save up some money to pay them - as if they agree to settle the matter out of court they will want payment in full within a very short time
- make sure you make no ticketing errors or evade paying any fares at all on any journeys you take from now on as they will be investigating your ticket and travel patterns
- Their investigation will involve lookin at your touch in history and ticket buying so be prepared for them to find any other issues that such investigation might reveal.

I hope this helps you to prepare for what will happen next.

*edit - as mentioned up thread it may be a good idea to contact Southeastern to see if they can issue you with a replacement copy of whatever you were given on the day. This helps people give you the correct advice on what to do.


Yes, assuming they were in fact reported for investigation for a 'ticketing irregularity' of course, and not given a Penalty Fare - already confused in the OP's account by reference to them expecting to be able to 'pay a fine'.

Hello there, I have received the letter and really need help , how to respond it . Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Ok , thank you .

Hello everyone I have received letter from them inviting to tell my side of the story , they got my surname wrong but don’t matter now how should I respond to this please.




Hello there, I have received the letter and really need help , how to respond it . Thank you

If you have a look at other threads seek out a fairly regular post from @Hadders which has an outline of how best to respond to these letters in order to try and obtain an out of court settlement, which should be your objective. You can then work on a draft to send and if you think it would help, post that up here for people to check for you.