• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Fallout for rail prosecutions from Post Office scandal

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,285
Location
No longer here
No I don't think we have.

But that doesn't guarantee that doing so won't get someone into trouble one day, even though it shouldn't.
Not that I’m defending the train companies here, but to me this very much sounds like making up a situation to get mad at.

Buying a ticket after boarding on your phone very much is an offence if you boarded at a station where there were facilities. Every example we’ve seen so far is where a ticket has been flagged as “bought after departure” but the passenger has passed valid opportunities to pay.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AdamWW

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
3,700
Not that I’m defending the train companies here, but to me this very much sounds like making up a situation to get mad at.

Buying a ticket after boarding on your phone very much is an offence if you boarded at a station where there were facilities. Every example we’ve seen so far is where a ticket has been flagged as “bought after departure” but the passenger has passed valid opportunities to pay.

But if I remember correctly we have seen people in such cases penalised for having an invalid ticket. I don't think there is any justification for this, and that the offence committed was actually boarding the train without a valid ticket.

Personally I think that the railway should stick to the law, just as it expects passengers to do. (Though I'm slightly conflicted on this one as a PF is generally a better outcome than prosecution or threats thereof for a bye law offence).

But if a ticket purchased after boarding is somehow fundamentally invalid or the railway believes it is, that seems a good reason to me to avoid doing so if possible even if ought to be OK. It also of course avoids any argument over whether the machine was in fact working or not.

I'm not suggesting that buying after boarding in such circumstances is likely to lead to trouble (and I'm not getting mad about anything), but if you can avoid the possibility of such trouble, why not do so?
 

mike57

Established Member
Joined
13 Mar 2015
Messages
1,692
Location
East coast of Yorkshire
How did they obtain Promise to Pay vouchers at a station without TVMs?
If you are paying in cash the TVM at our local station doesn't take cash. Certainly in our area thats the norm. (Northern, Hull - Scarborough route). In our area apart from Arram all stations have a TVM
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,285
Location
No longer here
But if I remember correctly we have seen people in such cases penalised for having an invalid ticket. I don't think there is any justification for this, and that the offence committed was actually boarding the train without a valid ticket.
There have been numerous cases where RPIs have wrongly issued a Penalty Fare for this, yes. The correct action to take is to report the person for prosecution. I think it’s quite fortunate for the passenger they have been making these mistakes!

But if a ticket purchased after boarding is somehow fundamentally invalid or the railway believes it is,
I don’t think the railway believes this. It’s a case of RPIs selecting a pre filled reason to input on their device. Of course, “bought after boarding” isn’t in their pre filled reasons on the device, because it is not a legitimate reason for a penalty fare. This ought to be the first clue to the incompetent RPI that the Penalty Fare shouldn’t be issued!

Tickets bought after boarding, even after having passed an opportunity to pay, are indisputably valid. Validity is a binary concept, yes or no. Nobody can possibly suggest a ticket bought in such a way - and quite often from a guard! - does not allow the passenger to make their journey, or avail of all the requisite passenger rights they have from forming the contract.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
15,357
If you are paying in cash the TVM at our local station doesn't take cash. Certainly in our area thats the norm. (Northern, Hull - Scarborough route). In our area apart from Arram all stations have a TVM
Read the question you replied to again.
 

Top