Fantasy: Given no limits, how would you modernise your line?

[4-SUB 4732]

South WCML:

12 car 2+2 350s on all services and extend the Tring stoppers to Milton Keynes/Bletchley

Personally I think LM operate 'too many' trains during off-peak. There would be nothing wrong with 2tph Southern 377 (5 car) from Croydon to Milton Keynes and for the 2tph Tring stoppers to just run all the way down to Northampton. That way you could use the slow lines and get 2tph paths for 'fast' Birmingham trains - e.g. London, Watford, Milton Keynes or London, Leighton, Bletchley, Milton Keynes.

In theory you could match up the XX25 and XX55 off Northampton to Birmingham with arrivals in that regard and the XX16 matched up off a different fast path.

 

[fowler9]

Class 50's hauling Mk 2's on the Cheshire Lines stopping services. Not strictly modernising but it's what I'd do. Wouldn't benefit many but I would enjoy it. ha ha.

Alternatively electrify it and give it a clock face timetable every 30 mins Lime Street to Oxford Road. Perhaps use a four car version of the 331.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

If money was really no issue then a direct bridge or tunnel at Woolston into Southampton to save the slow journey round St Denys. Or more realistically resignalling of Netley Line to improve headway along there.

So very simple, and so very necessary!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Or - incorporate into a "Thur-Rom Metro" by taking over the Upminster-Grays line (with lots of new tram stops!) then on to Tilbury Ferry - plenty of potential routes for this bit, especially if you allow for street running - and operate the Tilbury-Gravesend ferry as an integral part of the service with through ticketing. It should be easy to construct a light rail flyover at Upminster.

Perfect - and what I've advocated for a while. A 15-minutely service, more stops, high-acceleration technology and into the bay at Grays.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Looking at the Chatham and Dover Main Line.

1. Either reinstate non-stop services between Rochester and Bromley, or have them stop at Swanley instead of Meopham. This would improve links from points east to Sevenoaks, and to St Mary Cray and Bickley. Is it true that the Longfield and Meopham stops were only added to these services to ensure that they were slower than High Speed?

2. Perhaps more controversial, but close Sole Street, and all stations between Faversham and Dover bar Canterbury East and just maybe Aylesham. These stations would never have been built if we were building the line now, and their existence achieves little bar slowing journeys down.

Some main lines did close all their minor stations, and even on here you don't hear very many arguing that stations like Tempsford and Abbotts Ripton should never have closed. The continued existence of stations like Selling and Snowdown is scarcely more defensible.

I would argue for the Thameslink Rainham - Luton diverting via Sole Street and providing the half-hourly all stopper to Bromley South; then calling at Denmark Hill, Elephant & Castle and into the Core. One service to start from Gillingham, one to come from Canterbury East every hour. The route via Higham would go back to Southeastern control and would operate to Rainham to give new connections (e.g. Lewisham).

I would also suggest routing the Dover & Ramsgate fast services (fast from Bromley to Rochester) into and out of Blackfriars for the connectivity to Thameslink. Sutton Loop services to run into/out of Victoria so you could run some parallel moves at Herne Hill and increase capacity; with the Orpington stopping trains via Herne Hill going in and out of the Thameslink Core.

Thameslink Routes under my evil scheme:

MAINLINE - ALL DAY
TL1 Peterborough - Brighton
TL2 Cambridge North - Brighton (dedicated 15-minutely path between Hitchin and Three Bridges)
TL3 Bedford - East Grinstead (no conflicting moves at Selhurst for Victoria trains off-peak)
TL4 Bedford - Horsham via Purley and Redhill

METRO - ALL DAY
TL5 St Albans - Orpington via St Pancras, Elephant and Beckenham Jn (15-minutely)
TL6 Luton - Ashford International (semi-fast e.g. not Hendon, Cricklewood, Kentish Town) and routed via Denmark Hill
TL7 Luton - Gillingham / Canterbury East (semi-fast e.g. not Hendon, Cricklewood, Kentish Town) and routed via Denmark Hill

MAINLINE - PEAK ONLY
TL8 Cambridge - Sevenoaks (Up all stations to Hitchin then Welwyn North and Finsbury Park only then via Catford)
TL9 Royston - Bromley South (Up all stations to Hatfield then Finsbury Park and then via Catford)
TL10 Bedford - Three Bridges (Via Redhill)
TL11 Corby - Three Bridges (Via Redhill)

TL1 additional stop at Knebworth at peak times
TL8 and TL9 combined off-peak to make Cambridge - Kings Cross stopper as now; TL8 and TL9 off-peak south of river legs Blackfriars - Sevenoaks and Blackfriars - Bromley South.
TL10 West Hampstead / Finsbury Park - Eastbourne in other peak direction
TL11 Corby - St Pancras at off-peak times; also West Hampstead / Finsbury Park - Littlehampton in other peak direction.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

A more simple one for the WCML, approach control on the down main approaching Rugby. Currently the 50mph half-station block at Hilmorton Jn (only really used in disruption or for the odd freight) gets flashers, whereas the 40mph turnouts into platforms 1&2 (now used twice every hour) receive approach control from red. I propose swapping these two sequences as the approach control from red takes a comparatively long time as the signal is a way back, it isn't uncommon for the xx07 Liverpool (fast to Stafford) to be held up as the xx03 Birmingham (calling at Rugby) negotiates the approach control.

But it does get an additional 1 pathing minute. If the XX03 is on time, so stays the XX07.

That said, definitely agree with flashing junction at least into Platform 1 if not also 2.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

delete plz

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Cross city line

Firstly the order of Aventras to replace the 323 would be for fixed formation 6 car units.

Secondly I would build a new route from Aston to Five Ways. Initially it would follow the route of the long closed LNWR Windsor Street Goods branch for around a mile before tunneling under the city centre with new underground stations at Aston University and Birmingham New Street low level. From there the route would emerge above ground at a point between New Street and Five Ways on the trackbed of the Midland Granville Street goods branch with a new Five Ways station being built immediately to the east of the current one with platforms extending under Islington Row middleway. The 3 new stations would be built with the possibility of a future upgrade to 10 car trains in mind.

Chiltern Main Line, Birmingham Metro, Birmingham Hub and other improvements

Key to the success of the project is a four-track main line from South Ruislip to Birmingham Snow Hill. The route from Paddington (with less trains as most will transfer to Crossrail) will be used; with up to 8tph from Paddington using Pendolino-style tilting electric stock. With a call at Old Oak Common, it would go up the New North line. Local trains from Marylebone would go as far as High Wycombe with additional trains able to operate from Marylebone to places like Banbury and Stratford on Avon.

Services from London would use this new route to Birmingham instead of the West Coast Main Line with 4tph calling Old Oak, Solihull (for Birmingham Airport) and Moor Street; with 2tph continuing to Wolverhampton using the new link in red at Smethwick Galton Bridge. Cross Country services would all operate via Solihull as well. 2tph would terminate at Moor Street and have extra calls at Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick Parkway and Warwick. The final 2tph would operate to Oxford via Bicester Village; with the high-level of Intercity service removing 2tph from the GWML / re-purposing the paths as far as Reading.

Metro services from Leamington Spa, Dorridge and Stratford on Avon (all electrified) via Solihull would operate along the Smethwick connection to go to Wolverhampton and also to Shrewsbury (electrified).

Services from New Street (and therefore from Coventry, International and from Leamington via Kenilworth) would operate down to Rowley Regis, Kidderminster etc.

Cross City services continue as now; due to the lower demand for services along the corridor via International, re-modelling would enable more Intercity services from the Derby and Coleshill direction to run down into the low-number platforms as well.

There wouldn't be much of a need to do anything to the Camp Hill line. All Cross Country services (hourly Bournemouth and hourly Southampton extra) would route towards the North West via Wolves; all from the West Country (Plymouth and a service from Cardiff) would run to Edinburgh and Newcastle on a 'plain line' via University and Landor Street.

An additional Cross Country service from Temple Meads would pick up calls at Worcester Shrub Hill and Bromsgrove (and University). This would run through to Nottingham. The Hereford service would operate to Lincoln Central (as a mostly fast service from Nottingham via Newark Castle to Lincoln with positive new connections).

Two trains an hour would operate from Euston (using Pendolinos); with an additional two fast 350s per hour from Euston via Northampton. The remaining 2tph from Coventry to New Street would originate at Leamington via Kenilworth. The two 'slow' 350s per hour from London via Northampton would run from Coventry up to Nuneaton and terminate.

I believe this would sort out a whole host of the biggest capacity problems; some services might operate from the Moor Street area towards Kidderminster; a few services would run from New Street towards Wolves.

General service frequency similar to:
- 2tph Paddington to Wolverhampton (CH)
- 2tph Paddington to Moor Street (CH)
- 2tph Paddington to Moor Street (with stops) (CH)
- 1tph Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly (XC)
- 1tph Southampton Central to Liverpool Lime Street (XC)
- 1tph Plymouth to Newcastle (XC)
- 1tph Cardiff Central to Edinburgh (XC)
- 1tph Bristol Temple Meads to Nottingham (XC)
- 1tph Hereford to Lincoln Central (WM/EM)
- 2tph Leamington Spa to Wolverhampton (WM)
- 2tph Dorridge to Shrewsbury (WM)
- 1tph Stratford on Avon to Crewe via Stoke on Trent (WM)
- 1tph Stratford on Avon to Preston via Crewe (WM)
- 1tph Whitlocks End to Worcester Shrub Hill (WM)
- 1tph Whitlocks End to Great Malvern (WM)
- 1tph Birmingham International to Manchester Piccadilly (XC)
- 1tph Birmingham International to Liverpool Lime Street (XC)
- 2tph Euston to Birmingham New Street (VT)
- 2tph Leamington Spa to Stourbridge Jn (WM)
- 2tph Euston to Kidderminster (WM)
- 2tph Rugeley Trent Valley to Stourbridge Jn via New Street (WM)
- 2tph Euston to Nuneaton (WM)
- 4tph Lichfield (City / Trent Valley) to Bromsgrove (WM)
- 2tph Walsall to Redditch (WM)
- 2tph Four Oaks to Redditch (WM)
- 1tph Birmingham New Street to Cambridge (EM)
- 1tph Birmingham New Street to Nottingham (EM) (Combines existing Leicester and also Leicester to Nottingham stopper on Ivanhoe)

Plus whatever other services are needed that I've forgotten...!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I'd agree with that from a St Albans pov. The loop could be a Penryn type to allow the existing single platform to be used and reduce land take.
On the MML, the timetable on the southern section (core/St Pancras to Bedford) could be made more robust if a bi-di dynamic loop was squeezed in between the down and up fasts in several places. This would reduce the incidence of fast TL services having to wait for late EM trains to clear the crossovers at Carlton Road, West Hampstead, Radlett South and Harpenden South Junctions. It would be possible to allow them the switch and get looped thereby minimising delays to both trains. That could work even better if a bi-di loop through St Albans between fast platforms 3 and 4 allowed EM trains to pass TL services whilst they were stopped there, but the problem would be the lack of any land to buy for the formation widening.

And, of course, with a bit of moving things around you could have a half-hourly Euston to St Albans Abbey (Queens Park, Harrow, Bushey stops); allowing the Tring services to accelerate and run down to Milton Keynes / Northampton and freeing up two paths for express WM/LNWR 350s to run on the slows to Leighton Buzzard...

 

[4-SUB 4732]

My local station is (not surprisingly) Swindon, after the works over the last few years affecting services, from doubling the Kemble line through to the electrification of the GWML a period of stability please.

If there were to be any changes, a new station in North Swindon (on the way to Kemble), reintroduction of the direct service to Oxford, to be linked into the future East West line & (if I've read the IEP plans correctly) not have trains stopping at Chippenham but not Swindon

Suppose I can get on board with some of this as I used to work in Milford House a few days a week!

I don't personally see much use to the extra Paddington - Temple Meads via Parkway trains. I get that they relieve capacity for Swindon and Bath who are more likely to get seats as the Bristol mob should be stuffed onto these new services but personally I'd have assumed the goal was to accelerate Swansea services.

I'd ask for:
XX00 off Paddington to call at Reading and relevant stations to Penzance / Plymouth via the Berks & Hants. Non-stop to Taunton at least from Reading.

XX03 off Paddington to call at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads.

XX15 off Paddington to call at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Neath, Swansea.

XX18 off Paddington to call at Reading then assume part of the Bedwyn service (e.g. Theale, Thatcham, Newbury, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn, Pewsey, Westbury); with two-hourly extension to Paignton and two-hourly extension to Yeovil Junction via Pen Mill. Improved service (standard hourly) to Pewsey and Westbury.

XX30 off Paddington to call at Reading, Swindon and stations up to Cheltenham every hour. Use 5 car trains.

XX33 off Paddington to call at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads.

XX45 off Paddington to call at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbey Wood, Bristol Temple Meads and extend to Weston-super-mare. Use 5 car trains.

XX48 off Paddington to call at Reading, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport, Cardiff Central.

As the Chiltern Main Line would be the new major route for services to Oxford (see previous post); paths at XX06 and XX36 will be reserved for IEP trains towards Oxford but calling at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway and Oxford. One service continues to Tackley, Heyford, Banbury, Leamington, Warwick Parkway, Warwick, Hatton, Stratford Parkway and Stratford on Avon; the other to Hereford / Worcester.

XX21 and XX51 paths for 387s operating to Newbury calling at Slough, Maidenhead (relief lines), Twyford, Reading and down to Newbury. The XX00 West Country would overtake the XX51.

East West services (half-hourly) from Bedford to Reading via Oxford calling at local stations; hourly service from Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads via Bath Spa and hourly service from Oxford to Frome via Melksham (two-hourly Weymouth extension). Use of Networker Turbo trains refurbished to high-standard in 5-car formations. Pathed out of Didcot (west end) just after the XX15 Paddington / XX48 Paddington departures as they could sit in front of the XX03 / XX30.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

No limits?

OK... WCML between Preston and Windermere
(which I use quite a bit, although it's not really my 'local' line. Main problem is the lack of commuter trains, forcing short-distance commuters onto the long-distance trains).

I would 4-track between Preston and Carnforth, opening new stations at Blackpool Road Preston, Broughton/M55 Parkway, Galgate, Lancaster University, Skerton, and Hest Bank. And reopen the mainline platforms at Carnforth. These stations to be served by:

• 2tph Liverpool-Morecambe, replacing the current Morecambe shuttle.
• 2tph Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere, which would both split at Lancaster, obviously replacing the current Barrow and Windermere services.

Trains timetabled to give a regular 15-minute frequency between Preston and Lancaster.

Obviously, build in whatever other infrastructure is needed to support this. You'd need a passing loop on the Windermere branch, and possibly a grade separated junction for the Morecambe branch.

Oh, and while we're at it, rebuild Kendal station to have an entrance at the Eastern end of the platform to/from Shap Road - making the station much more convenient to walk to.

My local line is actually the Woolwich line, which is already pretty good for journeys into Londonso there's much less you could usefully do there on that line itself. But...

• Sort out the slow linespeeds between west of Woolwich Arsenal.
• Improve capacity at Dartford so that all trains can run to Dartford (with connections at Slade Green or Dartford to the Bexleyheath and Bexley lines)
• But an entrance at the Western end of the platforms at Abbey Wood.
• And please please please abandon the planned 2018 timetable changes: Keep the 10-minute frequency to Cannon Street and run those proposed Thameslink trains to somewhere else instead.

And two new lines to provide better orbital journeys in that part of London:

• Extend Crossrail from Abbey Wood, under the Thames, to Grays.
• Build a new DLR line from Newbury Park to Crayford: Running roughly Newbury Park - Ilford - Barking - Gallions Reach - Thamesmead - Abbey Wood - Bexleyheath - Bexleyheath Town Centre - Crayford. TfL are intending already to build the bit between Galleons Reach and Thamesmead, but no funding confirmed. And they have considered Ilford-Bexleyheath Town Centre as an possible long-term ambition.

As a local to your area, I agree with a fair bit.

Easy choice for me. Four-tracking from Abbey Wood to Dartford. South pair of tracks to host Crossrail to Dartford, Paramount Park (Northfleet) and Gravesend; north pair of tracks used by DLR from Abbey Wood to Ebbsfleet.

Some services from the Greenwich and Blackheath end via Woolwich to terminate at Abbey Wood. Minimal connectivity would be allowed to get trains to/from Slade Green Depot at start and end of service. Crossrail trains to be equipped with pick-up shoes and switch to DC at Abbey Wood.

London Overground from Barking Riverside to tunnel and serve underground stations at Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath (station) and Bexleyheath (centre).

DLR from Gallions Reach to Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Belvedere, Erith and Slade Green (new stations en route at Yarnton Way, Church Manorway, Erith Stadium) before a new alignment behind the depot off to Temple Hill, Bluewater, Ebbsfleet Valley and Ebbsfleet International (no Crossrail to Ebbsfleet).

Dynamic four-track layout from Crayford Creek (join of Bexleyheath line) to Dartford; Dartford to get 5th platform and improved Siding provision. 4tph from Bexleyheath line (from Cannon Street) to go round to Crayford (back to Cannon Street). 4tph from Bexleyheath line (Charing Cross) to continue to Maidstone West (2tph) and Rainham (2tph). Additional peak services terminate at Dartford. Additional 4tph on Sidcup line (2 Charing Cross, 2 Victoria) terminate at Dartford.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Southern ECML, specifically the GN.

• Four-track Welwyn viaduct and tunnels
• Four-track Huntingdon-Peterborough
• Demolish Stevenage station and rebuild it with platforms separate from the fast lines, similar to Welwyn Garden City.
• Build two new bay platforms at Stevenage on the downside
• Open a new platform at Hitchin on the upside, where the old Royal Mail depot is - this will allow trains to stop from both Cambridge and Peterborough at the same time if need be, and allow fast trains around the slow trains.

New off-peak timetable:
1 x Finsbury Park, Stevenage, then all stops to Peterborough
2 x Finsbury Park, Welwyn Garden City, then all stops to Peterborough

1 x Finsbury Park, Cambridge, Ely, Kings Lynn
1 x Finsbury Park, Royston, Cambridge, Ely, Downham Market, Kings Lynn
1 x Finsbury Park, Stevenage Royston, Cambridge, then all stations to Kings Lynn
1 x Finsbury Park, Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth, Baldock, Royston, Cambridge, Cambridge North, Ely
2 x Finsbury Park, Welwyn Garden City, then all stops to Cambridge North

6 x Moorgate-Welwyn Garden City, all stops
6 x Moorgate-Hertford, all stops, with three extended to Stevenage

Obviously all of the above in the opposite direction too.

Not sure why Stevenage would really need a Welwyn-style situation. A single bay on the down side would work perfectly well...

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Didn't mention another local route to me, the Penistone line. I've long advocated a loop to allow 2tph but as this thread allows me to get my crayons out, let's have at it:

Redoubled throughout, electrified, and terminal platforms expanded at Huddersfield to accommodate half hourly Huddersfield to Sheffield* services along with reopened (and electrified) branches to Holmfirth (2tph), Meltham and Clayton West (both 1tph). The Clayton West branch extended to a station serving Yorkshire Sculpture Park.

At Penistone, the former Midland route from Barnsley Junction is reopened towards Sheffield (This coupled with a reopened Woodhead route to Manchester of course) but diverted along a new alignment from the Wadsley Bridge area into a tunnelled section which curves around the edge of the city to serve Meadowhall before heading into Sheffield centre.

*=The half-hourly Huddersfield to Sheffield services alternate between the current route via Barnsley, and the new/reopened direct line.

And re-open Woodhead, I hope!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Helsby.Third rail down from Ellesmere Port to link into Merseyrail and OHL from Warrington to Chester. P

So very, very easy!

Yes, third rail to Helsby with services every 30 minutes. No need to run direct trains as there will soon be services to Warrington every 30 minutes.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

no limits eh? For the Cambridge area:

A central underground four track core railway. Portals for the four track section would be south of Great Chesterford, west of Royston and north of Waterbeach, with the portals all designed for future extension

The junction at Shelford would be grade seperated, obviously.

A two track electrified line would split south of Shelford to Haverhill. This would be entirely sub surface, and built with extension to Colchester in mind.

A two track underground electric line to Soham and Bury St Edmunds via Newmarket. Soham services would continue to to Ely and also to Mildenhall. Stations reinstated at Cherry Hinton, Fulbourn and Six Mile Bottom (this last as a Parkway)

A line (just assume they're all two track electric underground) to St Neots, with a Cambridge West station amongst others

Cambridge "central" would have three island platforms (six faces), one for most northbound through services, one for most southbound through services, and one (used less) for any services that have to terminate.

Cambridge North and South, and Royston, would be simple twin island platforms with services stopping on all four tracks

Meldreth, Shepreth, Foxton, a reinstated Harston, reinstated Hauxton & Little Shelford, Great Shelford, a re-sited Whittlesford ("& Sawston"), a new Hinxton (for the Sanger Institute), Great Chesterford and Whittlesford would all be outside platforms with fast lines through the middle

Cambridge North to Huntingdon, including a station at CRC/Science Park West

A full metro system, obviously. Entirely underground. Replacing the busway where that's not otherwise replaced by railways

Why so much underground? Two reasons- weatherproofing is a big one. Ideally both lines to London would go fully subterranean. Secondly, through Cambridge and to the villages the freed up track bed (and depot space, obviously I'm sending that underground too) would be excellent space for a better north-south cycleway, linear park and housing.

I wouldn't bother with the old varsity route. Instead at Shepreth I'd cut across to Sandy via a new town at Bassingbourn barracks site.

Stansted Airport totally shut down (except for cargo and small amounts of low-cost); and Cambridge massively improved in its place. Cambridge Station massively improved along with Cambridge North; both acting as bus terminals from the Airport.

Electrify Peterborough - Ely, Ely - Norwich, Ely - Soham - Bury, Cambridge - Newmarket - Bury and Bury - Stowmarket.

For Cambridge I'd go with a dedicated pair of tracks to both the Royston and Audley End routes. The East West route to come in on the Royston pair and take over that stupid Guided Busway.

2tph Brighton to Cambridge North (12/700)
2tph Kings Cross to Cambridge stopper (8 car)
2tph Kings Cross to Kings Lynn (Class 379)
2tph Bedford (Leicester?) to Ipswich on EWRL
2tph Liverpool Street to Bury St Edmunds express
2tph Liverpool Street to Ely semi-fast (both Ely and Bury St Edmunds services use the existing Stansted paths to Bishops Stortford; the Ely service then all stations from there)
2tph Stansted Airport to Norwich
1tph Cambridge to Nottingham (amended from Norwich)
1tph Cambridge to Birmingham New Street (not to Stansted)

 

[4-SUB 4732]

1) Completely rebuild Brixton to allow interchange with LO, Lewisham/Herne Hill. Step free access and undercover access to Brixton tube.

2) Interchange station at Brockley to allow access to LO from Lewisham services.

3) Close Swanscombe & Northfleet & rebuild with a new station between the two with covered access to Ebsfleet intl (which is what should have been done before HS1 opened)

Totally agree on the Brixton thing, platforms both 'over the top', down on the Catford lines and the existing ones.

Agreed on Brockley every step of the way.

Not sure about Swanscombe and Northfleet. Perhaps just totally re-building Northfleet into "Ebbsfleet North" would do; with some form of travelator link between the two stations?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Ultimate fantasy idea:

De-electrify all routes
Scrap all DMUs and EMUs
All services to be operated by diesel locomotives and coaching stock
Coaching stock to be fitted with droplights and opening windows above each seating bay

Now this is something we could all enjoy!

 

[B&I]

6th biggest city?

Let's not start that again!

Fine, we can also confine Leeds to its actual urban area and see how it fares in the rankings

 

[4-SUB 4732]

There's more scope for work than you think in Liverpool. Sticking to the local network, I'd suggest

1. connecting the WCML slow lines (with expanded services towards Crewe / Stoke, Chester via Helsby and Northwich / Manchester Airport (when the western link is built), at the south side of Edge Hill via the eastern half of the Wapping Tunnel to run through to Central and points north via the Northern Line

2. connecting the Edge Hill-Huyton line at the north side of Edge Hill, via the Victoria tunnel, to a 2 platform undergound station connected by underground passage to Lime Street (in the vicinity of the Islington / Camden Street junction). From there, continue a single bore tunnel west to a new westbound platform.at Moorfields, then on to the semi-disused platform 2 at James Street, and on west into the Mersey tunnel. Build a spur from the Wirral Line loop between Moorfields and Lime Street to permit eastbound trains to access the Victoria Tunnel. Couple this with restoring 4 tracks Edge Hill to Roby (which would require the demolition of the M62 flyover at Broad Green, albeit there are plans already to.remodel the roads round there), restroing 4 tracks between Rock Ferry and Hooton, extending the Ellesmere Port to Helsby, integrating the Borderlands Line into Merseyrail, and re-opening Hawarden Junction to Chester as an extension of this. This would allow some Wirral Line services to continue on to the Wigan, Chat Moss and Bank Quay lines (while some would continue to loop back via Central, as there would be 6 branches on the Wirral and 3 on the east side).

3. Expanding the Northern Line to sensible termini - Preston, Southport via Burscough, Wigan Wallgate (with a Skelmersdale branch), and Birchwood via the CLC, with 4 tracking where possible.

4. A people mover from Liverpool South Parkway to Liverpool Airport. No, wait a minute, if this is a fantasy thread, a through line via the airport and a lower Mersey crossing to.provide a fast direct line to Chester and Ellesmere Port

The benefits of this would be faster and more direct journeys through and across central Liverpool (and the metropolitan area more widely) and removal of local trains from Lime Street high level to permit much better long-distance services.

Certainly agree with somewhat sizeable improvements to the Merseyrail network. Perhaps most notably...

- Re-opening of the route up from Hunts Cross to Aintree. New stations Gateacre, Childwall, Broad Green, Alder Hey Hospital, West Derby, Norris Green. Re-site Rice Lane to be an interchange, re-site Walton to the south to be on both lines; re-site Aintree to the south as an interchange and re-name current Aintree to Aintree Racecourse.

- Re-opening of Bootle New Strand to Aintree Racecourse with stations at Litherland and Orrell.

- 4tph to Wigan Wallgate via Kirkby
- 4tph to Southport via Formby
- 2tph to Skelmersdale
- 2tph to Preston
- 4tph to Aintree via Bootle and Litherland

Combined 16tph south to extend to:

- 4tph to Warrington Central
- 4tph to Aintree Racecourse via Broad Green
- 8tph terminate at sensible busy location in bay platform(s) such as Brunswick.

 

[darrenmcfc]

Manchester - Macclesfield
Quad the line between Cheadle Hulme and Macclesfield to increase the Man > Macc stopping service to a metro style frequency rather than the hourly service now. WC and XC trains could them go on a dedicated fast line pair.

Lancaster - Heysham
Echo the idea of having light rail on this branch and extending to Bailrigg for the university. Lots of simple extra stops in Scotforth, Torisholme, Heysham Village.

Barrow Line
New high speed line diverting off the WCML at Galgate and running in a tunnel under Morecambe Bay to Barrow with a new low level station at Heysham.
Have a fast Javelin style service from Man Airport > Man Pic > Preston > Barrow.
Then have a stopping service Lancaster > Lanc Uni > Galgate > Heysham Low Level > Barrow.

 

[GW43125]

Not sure why Stevenage would really need a Welwyn-style situation. A single bay on the down side would work perfectly well...

Especially when you consider the hourly LNER stop, if you Welwyn-ify Stevenage you could potentially end up with a Clapham-style situation where fasts barely stop in the morning as the turnout to the loop throttles the capacity

 

[ijmad]

Replace all London Overground trains with Brunel-gauge 22 carriage long double decker trains.

Some associated bridge and station works may be required.

 

[Fred26]

Not sure why Stevenage would really need a Welwyn-style situation. A single bay on the down side would work perfectly well...

Because trains are very often held in the section before Stevenage while another is stopped on the fast line platform. There are two LNER trains per hour in each direction which stop at Stevenage, but there are also several that don't stop, plus GC, HT, and Kings Lynn/Cambridge flyers, all of which can be held up at Stevenage.

 

[43074]

For the MML:
- Complete grade separation of Harpenden Junction to remove conflicts between Thameslink services crossing fast to slow and vice versa
- Rebuild Bedford Station to provide 3 terminal platforms and an island platform on the fast lines, thus removing the issue of Up EMTs having to fit with Thameslink terminations at Bedford.
- Electrification of Kettering to Fitzwilliam (Wakefield) & Doncaster via both Derby and Nottingham
- Upgrade the Intercity service to tilting trains and 140mph where possible
- 3 tracks between Wigston and Kettering, with reduced signalling headways
- Grade separation of Wigston Junction and 2 additional platforms at Leicester
- An additional platform on the up slow at Loughborough and platform extensions at Long Eaton
- Remodel Trent Junction to provide for a connection from HS2 to Nottingham in the future.
- Line speed improvements between Nottingham and Sheffield and electrification and resignalling of the Matlock branch and Hope Valley Line
- Provide cascaded 323s for Leeds to Sheffield via Wakefield Westgate, Sheffield to Adwick (increased to half hourly) and local services on the MML in the Nottingham/Derby/Leicester area, 331s would work Nottingham to Leeds services.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm thinking maybe we need to start a new thread... If you had a huge amount of money, how would you modernise your line... BUT with the restriction that your ideas have to constitute a reasonable solution to a real problem. And, although you allowed to spend huge amounts of money building it, you can only spend that money if there is no obviously better (and cheaper) solution to the problem you're trying to solve. And what you build must have a good chance of attracting enough passengers to stay viable and can't become an ongoing financial black hole once its running. I wonder how that would change some of the proposals here...

(And no, I'm not going going to say which posts I'm thinking about )

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Because trains are very often held in the section before Stevenage while another is stopped on the fast line platform. There are two LNER trains per hour in each direction which stop at Stevenage, but there are also several that don't stop, plus GC, HT, and Kings Lynn/Cambridge flyers, all of which can be held up at Stevenage.

Yes but that doesn’t really matter - if the train behind is held, it’s because one is late. Anywhere that a train is late, the resulting regulation will cause knock on delays!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

For the MML:
- Complete grade separation of Harpenden Junction to remove conflicts between Thameslink services crossing fast to slow and vice versa
- Rebuild Bedford Station to provide 3 terminal platforms and an island platform on the fast lines, thus removing the issue of Up EMTs having to fit with Thameslink terminations at Bedford.
- Electrification of Kettering to Fitzwilliam (Wakefield) & Doncaster via both Derby and Nottingham
- Upgrade the Intercity service to tilting trains and 140mph where possible
- 3 tracks between Wigston and Kettering, with reduced signalling headways
- Grade separation of Wigston Junction and 2 additional platforms at Leicester
- An additional platform on the up slow at Loughborough and platform extensions at Long Eaton
- Remodel Trent Junction to provide for a connection from HS2 to Nottingham in the future.
- Line speed improvements between Nottingham and Sheffield and electrification and resignalling of the Matlock branch and Hope Valley Line
- Provide cascaded 323s for Leeds to Sheffield via Wakefield Westgate, Sheffield to Adwick (increased to half hourly) and local services on the MML in the Nottingham/Derby/Leicester area, 331s would work Nottingham to Leeds services.

Think I would actually move the junctions - they aren't necessarily in the right place.

Re-model of Carlton Road and then also West Hampstead South (both with double leads to allow parallel crossing moves); and then to the north I'd put the grade-separated junctions down at Colney Street / Napsbury (as you used to have issues surrounding regulation at Radlett); New Mill End and Sundon.

Bedford would be two through ones on the fast lines, two through ones on the slow lines (ready for 700s to Corby), two terminals for Thameslink and an additional two terminals for East West Rail Link.

Four tracking from Bedford to Leicester and obviously continued down to Trent in order to make the Midland Main Line the chief mover of freight from South to North (anything from Southampton etc to the North East e.g. Doncaster and Leeds would come up the East West to Bedford then down the Erewash to Chesterfield and over Beighton. All electrified. As much stuff from London to also come along the Midland.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Well I live on the South London Metro route, which is a bit tricky to upgrade, but if I could:

1. Seperate slow services via Norbury and semi-fast services via Mitcham Junction into Crossrail 2 with a tunnel portal somewhere in Streatham, allowing the BML slows between Victoria and Balham Junction exlusively for via Crystal Palace services, increase this service from 4 tph to 6 tph.

2. Abolish London Bridge to Croydon via Peckham and Crystal Palace/Norbury services and build new station interchanges at Streatham Common and Leigham Vale (between Streatham Hill and West Norwood)

3. Extend the West London Line round through Balham, over the Leigham Curve and take over the Thameslink route through Herne Hill and Blackfriars, then extend it in the west from Willesden to Cricklewood and thus create a loop through London.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

However, I'd like to upgrade the WCML once more as an alternative to HS2. (I prefer conventional railways to high speed ones these days)

-GCR freight line (yes I know this topic has been done to death)
-Splitting and joining of trains at Rugby and Crewe to maximise pathing.
-2 adittional Manchester services per hour to Manchester Victoria via Warrington BQ calling at Rugby, Warrington, Victoria
-Hourly "Royal Scot" service to Glasgow fast to Preston.
-140 mph running of course.
-Double headed Pendolinos: 2x8 cars= 16 coach trains.
-Bradford to Euston service via Huddersfield.
- Javelins instead of Desiros?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

If you upgraded the Chiltern Main Line and also made sure the East West Rail Link was suitable, then you could significantly reduce the number of WCML Birmingham services (at least Pendolino ones). I'd also cut off the Chester service.

2tph Euston to Manchester via Stoke
2tph Euston to Manchester via Crewe (decelerated with more local stops)
2tph Euston to Liverpool
2tph Euston to Scotland direct (not via West Mids)
2tph Euston to Birmingham New Street

E.g. from London
XX00 EUS, PRE, LAN, CAR, MOT, GLC.
XX03 EUS, MKC, STA, CRE, WIL, SPT, MAN.
XX09 EUS, MKC, COV, BHI, BHM.
XX22 EUS, TAM, CRE, RUN, LIV.
XX25 EUS, RUG, SOT, SPT, MAN.
XX30 EUS, MKC, WBQ, WNW, PRE, LAN, OXE, PEN, CAR, LOC, HAY, EDB.
XX33 EUS, WFJ, NUN, CRE, WIL, SPT, MAN.
XX39 EUS, MKC, COV, BHI, BHM.
XX52 EUS, STA, CRE, RUN, LIV.
XX55 EUS, SOT, MAC, SPT, MAN.

XX12 and XX42 to be the Crewe 110mph calling Milton Keynes, Rugby, Nuneaton (etc.)
XX15 and XX45 to be fast to Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes, Wolverton, Northampton, Rugby and stations to Birmingham New Street.