I don't see why Ashford travellers, for example, should be forced to choose between an extortionately overpriced high speed train to, what is for many, the wrong side of town, or a main line service which has been artificially slowed down.
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FANTASY: You're running the next South Eastern franchise. What would you do?
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I don't see why Ashford travellers, for example, should be forced to choose between an extortionately overpriced high speed train to, what is for many, the wrong side of town, or a main line service which has been artificially slowed down.
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Malcolmffc
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250 car platforms? That’s quite the platform extension! Guess they could be served by joining all the 707s together?
Esker-pades
Established Member
Metro Services:
Mainline Services:
High Speed:
Branch Lines
- 2tph Cannon St to Cannon St (via Sidcup & Greenwich)
- 2tph Cannon St to Cannon St (via Bexleyheath and Greenwich)
- 2tph Cannon St to Cannon St (via Sidcup & Bexleyheath)
- 2tph Cannon St to Slade Green (via Lewisham & Woolwich Arsenal)
- 2tph Cannon St to Sevenoaks (all stations)
- 2tph Cannon St to Hayes (all stations)
- 2tph Blackfriars to Gravesend (Greenwich, Charlton, Woolwich Arsenal, Abbey Wood, Slade Green, Dartford then all stations)
- 2tph Charing X to Hayes
- 2tph Charing X to Bromley North (via Lewisham)
- 2tph Charing X to Dartford (via Sidcup)
- 2tph Charing X to Orpington (via Lewisham)
- 2tph Charing X to Dartford (via Bexleyheath)
- 2tph Charing X to Gillingham (New Eltham, Sidcup, Dartford, Greenhithe, Gravesend, all stations)
- 2tph Victoria to Gravesend (via Bexleyheath)
- 2tph Victoria to Beckenham J (via Lewisham)
- 4tph Victoria to Orpington (via Herne Hill)
- 2tph Thameslink to Orpington (via Catford)
- 2tph Blackfriars to Sevenoaks (via Catford and Otford)
Mainline Services:
- 2tph Thameslink to Tunbridge Wells (Orpington, Chelsfield, Sevenoaks, all stations)
- 2tph Charing X to Hastings (Orpington, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, either all stations or semi-fast)
- 2tph Charing X to Canterbury West (1tph continues to Ramsgate)
- 2tph Charing X to Dover Priory (1tph continues to Margate)
- 2tph Charing X to Maidstone East (Grove Park, Swanley, Maidstone East)
- 2tph Victoria to Ramsgate (Bromley South, Rochester, all stations except Newington and Teynham)
- 2tph Victoria to Dover Priory (Bromley South, Longfield, Rochester, all stations. 1 tph runs fast from Faversham to Dover Priory)
- 2tph Victoria to Ashford International (Denmark Hill, Bromley South, Swanley, Otford etc.)
- 2tph Victoria to Rainham (Denmark Hill, Bromley South, St Mary Cray, all stations)
High Speed:
- 2tph St Pancras to Margate (Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Canterbury West, Ramsgate, Broadstairs, Margate)
- 2tph St Pancras to Ramsgate (Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Ashford, Folkestone, Dover Priory, Walmer (1tph), Deal, Sandwich (1tph), Ramsgate
- 2tph St Pancras to Margate (Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Gravesend, Strood, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Sittingbourne, Faversham, Whitstable, Herne Bay, Margate)
- 1tph St Pancras to Maidstone West (Stratford, Ebbsfleet, Gravesend, Strood, Snodland, New Hythe, Aylesford Maidstone Barracks, Maidstone East)
Branch Lines
- 2tph Tonbridge to Paddock Wood, of which 1tph continues to Strood
- 2tph Sheerness to Sittingbourne
- 4tph Grove Park to Bromley North (2tph originate/terminate at Charing X)
NorthKent1989
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Would GTR allow for 2tph SE trains to run from Blackfriars? Good ideas, though I'd have all Gillingham trains to run via Woolwich & Greenwich for the Crossrail interchange at Abbey Wood, you could still run the Sidcup service too.
That way Medway would have 4tph between Gillingham & Dartford, and these services could avoid Lewisham, as both routes are faster than the previous fast service which ran via Blackheath & Lewisham.
Definitely would have 2tph run between Bromley North and CX.
Aictos
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I disagree, far better to keep the existing shuttle between Grove Park and Bromley North then have it run to/from Charing Cross again especially as it was cut back in the first place to allow more capacity for South Eastern Mainline services from Folkestone, Dover, Ashford International services which wouldn't be possible if we had direct Bromley North to Charing Cross services.
Bromley North still sees direct services from Charing Cross in times of engineering works and that is acceptable.
If the shuttle can be improved to a 15 minute frequency then fantastic otherwise the other solution would be to hand it over to the Bakerloo as part of a extension from Elephant and Castle .
Fleet:
Stations:
Routes:
Penge East is considered step free, like Sydenham, as both entrances are well... step free. The Footbridge, however, does need a good refurb or replacing. The level crossing should've never been removed in the first place.
Not a fan of the Bakerloo line to Hayes. Lewisham yes, Hayes no thanks.
- In 2021-4 the Networkers will be touching 30. For me, it's two options - spend loads doing a refurb, including wider opening windows (they've been awfully hot this summer) or ax them. I'm leaning towards replacement.
- So, I'd take the 707s from SWR, and order additional 10 car Desiro City sets to replace the entire Networker suburban fleet.
- Totally overhaul & refurb the 376s. Add air con (if the price isn't crazy).
- For the mainline, I'd try to take the 379s from AGA. Equalling 142 Electrostars for the Mainline Fleet. Is that enough? If it isn't enough, order a more Desiro City's to plug the gap. However, if the 379's aren't available consider Desiro City's or Stadlers for the mainline.
- Refurb the HS fleet.
Stations:
- Staff all Greater London stations first to last as well as other stations with 1+ usage.
- Refurb the stations to high quality. Deep clean, new benches, signage, install barriers where possible, take off the chipping paint before repainting!
- Far too many SE station buildings are boarded up. Reopen many of the station buildings where the stations are staffed. Create Cafe's, shops, waiting rooms.
- Platform extensions to 10 car on the Penge East line.
- Put stations to Sevenoaks and Gravesend into the zones. Rezone Dartford into 6.
- Rezone Lwr Sydenham and Beckenham Hill into 3/4
- Rezone Bromley South into 4/5.
Routes:
- On Sundays, up from 2tph to 4tph on suburban services. 30 mins for a Hayes or Penge East service is ridiculous.
- I would too, stop charging a premium for HS1. What faith do I have with HS2 not charging stupidly high fares when the only domestic HS service does just that?
- Thameslink North Kent seems silly - a faster service to Dartford should be an aim.
- Consider taking back the Southern Tonbridge service - extend it to Ashford or Dover. Or Dover to Gatwick Airport.
- In the suburbs, work with GTR and SWR to create an integrated a South London suburban network. For example, united service updates, a united network map, same kind of signage. TfL has hardly any money for what it's got so, I'm not calling for LO to take over. Instead, the operators should work closely with them to provide integrated info
- Consider having mainline services which call at Denmark Hill call at Catford.
- Victoria - Orpington additionally call at Clapham High Street (after new fleet introduced).
- 4tph Bromley North
Penge East is considered step free, like Sydenham, as both entrances are well... step free. The Footbridge, however, does need a good refurb or replacing. The level crossing should've never been removed in the first place.
Not a fan of the Bakerloo line to Hayes. Lewisham yes, Hayes no thanks.
Esker-pades
Established Member
The paths exist (or on the timetables that I have created they do).
CrossRail feeder is not something I'd thought of. If I extended the Gillingham via Greenwich service, I'd also axe Higham from the fast service via Sidcup.
BananaRepublic
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The Class 373 fleet is much reduced in number to almost one third of the original fleet size.
The refurbished remaining sets are likely to see something like a maximum of 10 years extra service, of which we're already a couple of years into.
At some point, Eurostar will retire and replace these trains, possibly sooner rather than later. Almost certainly with more UIC gauge trains.
Therein lies your problem with British domestic stock and Eurostar's UIC gauge trains using the same platforms at Ashford International.
Incidentally, the term Berne Gauge is a short hand expression. Its proper name was Gabarit passe-partout international, or PPI and it was superseded by the larger UIC gauges many many years ago.
Mikey C
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On the Metro side new stock to replace the Networkers and 376s, and enable 12 car trains. Major work will surely be required at Charing Cross though to make this happen, and possibly new depots
Thameslink trains to be removed, and timetable reverted back to the previous even Greenwich line service and Gillingham semi fast.
More 395 compatible stock to be purchased. 3rd rails to be put down on the Ashford to Hastings line and reworking of Ashford to enable through Hastings to STP services
Thameslink trains to be removed, and timetable reverted back to the previous even Greenwich line service and Gillingham semi fast.
More 395 compatible stock to be purchased. 3rd rails to be put down on the Ashford to Hastings line and reworking of Ashford to enable through Hastings to STP services
NorthKent1989
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If ever there was a stopping service from Sheerness/Faversham, I would like to see these make additional stops at Beckenham Junction, Penge East & Herne Hill,
Beckenham Junction for the tram interchange, Penge East simply because it is a busy station and covers a large enough catchment area and Herne Hill for the Thameslink and services to SW London, of paths allowed it of course.
Yes Indeed 2tph on a Sunday on the Penge & Hayes lines is ridiculous in 2018, these are no longer minor suburban lines but have become increasingly busy in the last decade or so.
Beckenham Junction for the tram interchange, Penge East simply because it is a busy station and covers a large enough catchment area and Herne Hill for the Thameslink and services to SW London, of paths allowed it of course.
Yes Indeed 2tph on a Sunday on the Penge & Hayes lines is ridiculous in 2018, these are no longer minor suburban lines but have become increasingly busy in the last decade or so.
Gating and (necessarily) staffing of Metro (and other, larger) stations makes sense but ...
… some rural stations are currently staffed for less than four hours a day. The fantasy shareholders may not be too happy with the increase in staffing costs - as an example my local station's first train is before 5am and last is after midnight, but, in theory, is open for 3 hours 45 minutes for what is an hourly service off-peak. Better to make sure tickets are checked on board!
Agree completely here. Unless you were to totally remodel the junction so it didn't create a conflicting movement on the fasts, there's absolutely no sense in running the Bromley North services direct to Charing Cross on a regular basis. Not to mention given Charing Cross's own capacity constraints, using up a path with a 2 car networker is hardly optimal!
In terms of things that might be possible within the realm of a franchise and with a mainline focus;
- All 2x2 seating. We all know the middle seat on 2x3 is rarely used even in busy conditions and so 2x3 stock just creates discomfort for all with very little capacity gained.
- More 11/12 car services. There's still some 8s in the peak that are heavily loaded.
- Scrap the Networkers. Although they may not be 'old' by UK rolling stock standards, they've been intensively worked and poorly treated. They are both unsuitable for Metro operations (Narrow doorways, small vestibule) and Mainline operations (No AC, no seat back tables, no walk through, 75mph max speed). Scrap the 376s too, although they're more suitable for Metro operations, they still fall short in many areas - if you're going to replace the Networkers may as well do the 376s at the same time and get a homogenous fleet!
- Take over the Tonbridge - Redhill line. Especially now that it has been reduced to a shuttle, it doesn't fit in well with GTR's operations. It'd be nice to see an Ashford - Gatwick via Redhill service, even if it is just hourly. It's a little frustrating for Kent to not have a direct link to any of the major airports! In tandem with this, convert one of the existing 2TPH between Ashford and Tonbridge in to a fast/limited stop - so all stations still maintain 2TPH+ and a fast service still exists.
- Improved usage of Smart/eTicketing. The current implementation is just the contractual minimum - there's far more benefit to passengers that can be unlocked.
- Higher data limit and speeds on the WiFi. 50MB is laughable.
- AC and USB sockets at every seat.
- Keep the fasts segregated until much closer to London Bridge. The conflicting move at the Tanner's Hill Flydown often causes delays. Let the fasts be fasts and well, run fast!
- 4 track or put loops in between Orpington and Tonbridge. Stopping services often cause delays and cannot be increased in capacity beyond their current state either. Given the many tunnels and cuttings though, passing loops at the stations are likely the more workable solution!
- Bore new tunnels along the line down to Hastings to cut down on the number of single track sections through the existing tunnels.
- Electrify and double the Marshlink line. Although not heavily used today, it has a reasonable level of loading. It is however an island of diesel in an otherwise electrified area, preventing further services from being run along there (i.e. HS1 extensions, mainline Tonbridge - Hastings - Ashford - Tonbridge rounders).
- Improve mobile coverage along the line. Although operators are trying to improve this by placing masts near to the track, efforts are being frequency thwarted by NIMBYs. Use Network Rail land, or even Network Rail masts, to host the equipment - boosting coverage and speeds onboard for both mobile and WiFi users. Install leaky feeders in the tunnel to give in-tunnel signal - many of the tunnels are rather lengthy causing a complete loss of coverage for several minutes assuming you're going at line speed and not crawling behind something else! (I am aware of the recent consultation on improving mobile coverage on the railways, and of course potential for issues with GSM-R interference. But this is a fantasy thread so..!).
- 25kV overhead electrification. We're getting really fantasy now. Although it wouldn't give much of a speed boost (except perhaps along the Tonbridge - Ashford stretch), it does at least reduce losses, improve safety for those on the track, improve acceleration and reduce issues stemming from ice and snow which chronically affect the Southeastern network.
- Demolish Charing Cross and Waterloo East. Replace with a new Blackfriars-style station connecting both the North Bank of the Thames at Charing Cross and the South Bank at Waterloo. Cuts down one additional stop, frees up land for development at the North Bank, and a good opportunity to rebuild and add more platforms that can take 12 cars without restrictions. Safeguard some land on the North Bank for a potential Crossrail-style through service for some trains.
theageofthetra
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Re Networker windows- they did open wider but vermin took to throwing the seat bases and bottles out of them- hence the spacer piece in the hopper.
They need replacing as do the 376's- Network Rail and the operator will be desperate to get rid of the monitors given their maintenance costs, cause of delays and replaced with in cab monitors.
theageofthetra
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All Metro area stations to properly staffed and fully barriered from first to last train.
Esker-pades
Established Member
It is possible. Tricky, but possible. The fast lines of the SEML at that point are not every 3 minutes, even at peaks. I have made the timetables, and have squeezed it in.
The Bromley North branch can take more than 2 coaches. During engineering blockades, they run at least 4 coaches.
OK, fair enough - when compared against SWR fares, even the Javelin prices are pretty reasonable - better than I expected.
I compared London-SOU with London-Dover (approx similar distance? Haven't checked though) and even on Javelin, the Dover fare (single, super off peak) comes out cheaper.
The point I'm trying to make though is that I'd come down one side or another on the 'classic' Victoria service, rather than the current service which is neither one nor the other. Either make it a proper fast as in the old days (if there's still 'fast' demand from northern Kent to Victoria as opposed to St Pancras), or turn it into an all-stations stopper and have 'fast' passengers use the Javelins.
One possible solution without a major change would be to transfer the minor stops (Newington, Teynham, Selling) to the 'Denmark Hill' service - as that is the stopper so should really take all the small stops.
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Not SE but Thameslink, and going back to a thread from a month or two ago: having travelled on it (admittedly through the core only) yesterday I will agree that Rainham service (the one I was on was only going to Gillingham though, something like the 1737 from Farringdon) does seem very very slow with a huge list of calling points! Would agree that if the aim is to link Thameslink to the Medway towns, and there aren't the paths to run semi-fast on the Woolwich route, why not route the Thameslink to Rainham via the Sidcup line semi-fast in place of the existing SE semi-fast on that route?
Then SE could run additional all-stations to Gravesend from Charing Cross (or wherever) via the Woolwich route in place of the diverted Thameslink.
Then SE could run additional all-stations to Gravesend from Charing Cross (or wherever) via the Woolwich route in place of the diverted Thameslink.
You need to define extortionate and how you come to know that for 'many' people, St Pancakes is the wrong side of town
I agree that a SE London to Gatwick link would be attractive - but maybe from Orpington via Tonbridge (reversal?) to Gatwick.
Interesting idea about a joint Charing cross (CHX) / Waterloo East (WAE) station. I agree it would speed up the journey time - it is very slow between London Bridge (LBG) and CHX - but you would then lose the links between WAE and Waterloo Main Line, and CHX to the tube (although it might be a better link to the Circle Line!)
A new suggestion - let fast trains call at Orpington (ORP) in the rush hour (the slow CHX - ORP are painfully slow in the evenings). Also introduce some fast trains from ORP to Victoria by diverting some trains which use the Bat and Ball route, or alternatively change the every 15 minute service ORP - Victoria to one stopper and one fast/semi-fast every half hour.
(No prizes for guessing my local station!)
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A completely radical solution:
Run trains fast from Charing Cross, Cannon Street, Victoria etc to 'satelite' stations on a 5 - 10 minute frequency. These satelite stations could be Bromley South, Orpington, etc, basically near the M25 so around 10 miles out of town. These trains would carry onto their normal destinations, such as Ashford, Hastings etc. However, these satellite stations would then provide a stopping service to the smaller stations further down the line, very much like the mainline / branchline model, except most of the stations would be on the mainline.
This would have the advantage of dispersing commuters from the mainline termini very quickly, and provide a quick, regular service to a number of stations - this would be very useful during times of disruption.
There would still need to be a series of stoppers filling in the stations between termini and staelite stations.
An alternative would be to make the satelites new stations, readily accessible from the M25, to make large 'park and ride' facilities.
Run trains fast from Charing Cross, Cannon Street, Victoria etc to 'satelite' stations on a 5 - 10 minute frequency. These satelite stations could be Bromley South, Orpington, etc, basically near the M25 so around 10 miles out of town. These trains would carry onto their normal destinations, such as Ashford, Hastings etc. However, these satellite stations would then provide a stopping service to the smaller stations further down the line, very much like the mainline / branchline model, except most of the stations would be on the mainline.
This would have the advantage of dispersing commuters from the mainline termini very quickly, and provide a quick, regular service to a number of stations - this would be very useful during times of disruption.
There would still need to be a series of stoppers filling in the stations between termini and staelite stations.
An alternative would be to make the satelites new stations, readily accessible from the M25, to make large 'park and ride' facilities.
Mikey C
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Would a Blackfriars type station across the Thames be allowed at Charing Cross (from a planning perspective)? It would have to be bigger, as Charing Cross currently has 6 terminating stations for a start
I'm not sure how much space on the North Bank would be released either, as there's already a large block over part of the platforms, and the station building facing the Strand are a nice hotel
I'm not sure how much space on the North Bank would be released either, as there's already a large block over part of the platforms, and the station building facing the Strand are a nice hotel
Aictos
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Even still it doesn't mean that that South Eastern ought to be running Charing Cross to Bromley North services when what is needed are decent connections at Grove Park.
Decent connections with the 20 minute frequency uprated to a 15 minute frequency in the peaks and you do away with the need to run Charing Cross to Bromley North services.
If any extra services can be fitted in then they ought to be from further afield such as from Tunbridge Wells, Hastings, Dover, Folkestone, Dover, Ashford International etc not from Bromley North.
More use of the Blackfriars bays would also be good with South Eastern operating Blackfriars to Blackfriars via Wimbledon on top of the existing GTR services using existing/new Metro stock (This would mean the removal of the peak time only SN services) though with the stock for the SN services being used elsewhere on the SN network.
NorthKent1989
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Here’s how I would run the metro routes:
CANNON STREET:
- Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Greenwich & Bexleyheath 2tph
- Cannon Street to Dartford via Bexleyheath 2tph
- Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup & Greenwich 2tph
- Cannon Street to Slade Green via Greenwich 2tph
- Cannon Street to Rainham via Greenwich and Woolwich, fast, calling at London Bridge, Greenwich, Woolwich Arsenal, Abbey Wood, Dartford, Greenhithe, Gravesend then all stations to Rainham 2tph
- Cannon Street to Orpington 4tph, 2tph continues to Sevenoaks all stops
CHARING CROSS:
- Charing Cross to Gravesend via Lewisham & Woolwich Arsenal, fast to Lewisham, all stops except Woolwich Dockyard to Gravesend
- Charing Cross to Dartford via Bexleyheath 2tph
- Charing Cross to Gillingham, fast from London Bridge to New Eltham, Sidcup, Bexley, Dartford, then all stops to Gillingham 2tph
- Charing Cross to Hayes 2tph, fast to Ladywell
- Charing Cross to Sevenoaks, 2tph, fast to Hither Green
VICTORIA:
- Victoria to Dartford via Sidcup 2tph
- Victoria to Hayes 2tph
- Victoria to Orpington via Penge East, 4tph
The Chatham Main Line could be ran like this:
- Victoria to Ramsgate & Dover Priory, dividing at Faversham, fast to Bromley South then Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Sittingborne then Faversham then all stops 2tph
- Victoria to Faversham, calling at Denmark Hill, Catford, Bromley South, St. Mary’s Cray, Swanley, then all stops to Faversham 2tph, 1tph continues to Dover Priory, not calling at Catford.
- Victoria to Rochester, calling at Beckenham Junction, Bromley South, St. Mary’s Cray then all stops to Rochester, 2tph
Victoria to Ashford Intl, calling at Herne Hill, Bromley South, St. Mary’s Cray, Swanley, Otford then all stations to Ashford Intl.
CANNON STREET:
- Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Greenwich & Bexleyheath 2tph
- Cannon Street to Dartford via Bexleyheath 2tph
- Cannon Street to Cannon Street via Sidcup & Greenwich 2tph
- Cannon Street to Slade Green via Greenwich 2tph
- Cannon Street to Rainham via Greenwich and Woolwich, fast, calling at London Bridge, Greenwich, Woolwich Arsenal, Abbey Wood, Dartford, Greenhithe, Gravesend then all stations to Rainham 2tph
- Cannon Street to Orpington 4tph, 2tph continues to Sevenoaks all stops
CHARING CROSS:
- Charing Cross to Gravesend via Lewisham & Woolwich Arsenal, fast to Lewisham, all stops except Woolwich Dockyard to Gravesend
- Charing Cross to Dartford via Bexleyheath 2tph
- Charing Cross to Gillingham, fast from London Bridge to New Eltham, Sidcup, Bexley, Dartford, then all stops to Gillingham 2tph
- Charing Cross to Hayes 2tph, fast to Ladywell
- Charing Cross to Sevenoaks, 2tph, fast to Hither Green
VICTORIA:
- Victoria to Dartford via Sidcup 2tph
- Victoria to Hayes 2tph
- Victoria to Orpington via Penge East, 4tph
The Chatham Main Line could be ran like this:
- Victoria to Ramsgate & Dover Priory, dividing at Faversham, fast to Bromley South then Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Sittingborne then Faversham then all stops 2tph
- Victoria to Faversham, calling at Denmark Hill, Catford, Bromley South, St. Mary’s Cray, Swanley, then all stops to Faversham 2tph, 1tph continues to Dover Priory, not calling at Catford.
- Victoria to Rochester, calling at Beckenham Junction, Bromley South, St. Mary’s Cray then all stops to Rochester, 2tph
Victoria to Ashford Intl, calling at Herne Hill, Bromley South, St. Mary’s Cray, Swanley, Otford then all stations to Ashford Intl.
I wouldn't want to advocate for severing the link to Waterloo (it's rather handy!), but I would expect even with a scheme like this it would still be possible to maintain a link of sorts - the distance from the South Bank to Waterloo isn't massive. It would break links to Charing Cross underground, but replaces it with better links to Embankment - which not only has the Northern and Bakerloo like Charing Cross does, but also Circle and District (capacity may be another matter though!).
I'm of the view that Orpington should have a fast service at all times of day but that not all fast trains should stop there. Continuing the fantasy theme, it would be good to perhaps keep the 2TPH fast Hastings that stop there in the off-peak, but changing the Sevenoaks stoppers to be fast to Orpington, then all stops to Sevenoaks instead of all stops all the way - something i'm sure regular travellers from Dunton Green, Knockholt and Chelsfield would also appreciate! Possibly also positive for Sevenoaks travellers too - being able to guarantee a seat from the origin but without spending a day and an age travelling in to London.
I'll confess, i've no idea if or how it would pass planning - especially as you rightly point out it would be larger than the new Blackfriars station. However, i'd like to think that most would view a low-rise development across water, where a bridge structure already exists, would be viewed as positive by most.
Would both of these be needed? The area between Swanley and Rochester seems pretty rural, not sure it would justify 4tph stopping at every station; I'd have thought 2tph would do.
Esker-pades
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I agree here. Somewhere like Sole Street doesn't justify 4tph.
NorthKent1989
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At the risk of folks saying this is impractical but I'm sure 2tph to and from Charing X to the Greenwich line wouldn't hurt! There are tracks west of London Bridge from the Thameslink tracks to the CX tracks, and since the Luton to Rainham service has a conflicting move at NKE over the Cannon Street tracks a CX to the Greenwich line shouldn't be too much trouble, admittedly the Thameslink using this junction hasn't caused any trouble thus far (and I'm no fan of Thameslink coming via this way)
I can see Thameslink being forced to change its services in the future anyway and this is fantasy after all so i would definitely reintroduce CX trains on the Greenwich line
I can see Thameslink being forced to change its services in the future anyway and this is fantasy after all so i would definitely reintroduce CX trains on the Greenwich line
Esker-pades
Established Member
At the risk of folks saying this is impractical but I'm sure 2tph to and from Charing X to the Greenwich line wouldn't hurt! There are tracks west of London Bridge from the Thameslink tracks to the CX tracks, and since the Luton to Rainham service has a conflicting move at NKE over the Cannon Street tracks a CX to the Greenwich line shouldn't be too much trouble, admittedly the Thameslink using this junction hasn't caused any trouble thus far (and I'm no fan of Thameslink coming via this way)
I can see Thameslink being forced to change its services in the future anyway and this is fantasy after all so i would definitely reintroduce CX trains on the Greenwich line
The conflicting moves would double, as one would have to squeeze them around both Thameslink and Cannon Street timings (and ex-Charing Cross services). I don't think changing at London Bridge is unreasonable.
To note: My closest station is St Johns, so I've also lost my direct Charing Cross services. It really doesn't matter.
I still don't see the problem you're trying to explain here. You're not being very clear. I guess you're saying that the gap between the train and the platform would be too big, but looking at other railways it really isn't. The two platforms at Lille Europe that I mentioned take both British gauge-trains (the Class 373s) and European-sized trains (everything else). And there is no problem there. Also, the fact that most of the Class 373 has been scrapped does not relate to this conversation.
Is this just a statement saying that I didn't use the correct name (but not in common use because not everybody can say master key template in French) or whether you're saying my statement about HS2 is wrong. Just in case: High Speed 2 is being built for European-sized stock and the website I learnt this information (which if I remember rightly was BBC News) referred to it as Berne gauge, so I assumed that's what it was called. And It was right, because Berne Gauge IS the European standard loading gauge, used in most of Western Europe.
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