Fare cost doubled on GWR train Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington

[Alex C.]

This has happened across multiple TOCs this year (SWR have already done it, Southern have done it recently) - the official position seems to be that advances on morning peak journeys were a short term measure during covid and passenger numbers are such that they shouldn't be able to continue (and bluntly, as someone who is affected by this, they're right)

The only way of 'getting around it' is to either book further in advance and hopefully there is at least some availability, travel at a later time or reduce the number of days you travel.

 

[Hadders]

Unfortunately there is absolutely no transparency when it comes to Advance tickets. While far from perfect fares regulation does at least give a ceiling for many fares. TOCs/DfT/RDG hate fares regulation and want it removed, they say it's outdated, belongs in the 1990s, not want people want etc.

You've only got to look at the LNER fares trial to see the likely direction of travel...

 

[Mark J]

Unfortunately there is absolutely no transparency when it comes to Advance tickets. While far from perfect fares regulation does at least give a ceiling for many fares. TOCs/DfT/RDG hate fares regulation and want it removed, they say it's outdated, belongs in the 1990s, not want people want etc.

You've only got to look at the LNER fares trial to see the likely direction of travel...

How on earth can they say the bit in bold.

If it were not for regulated fares, the prices would be even more ridiculous than they are now.

What TOCs/DfT and RDG still fail to understand is that people will only pay so much for overcrowded, late running services.

Over a decade ago we were told that record sums were being put into the railway to improve reliability, overcrowding and punctuality.

Despite all that investment, nothing has changed at all in that time.

 

[Kite159]

There are some within the DfT who would rather have one customer paying £100 for an anytime ticket than having 2 customers paying £49 for an advance ticket for morning peak travel, which on some routes is back to near "pre-covid" levels on Tuesdays - Thursdays so the TOCs selling cheaper advances on trains which are already busy is throwing money away. As they know, those customers will fork out for the higher cost of commuting if they can't work from home.

 

[Hadders]

How on earth can they say the bit in bold.

People say that rail fares are too complicated and need to be simplified. The rail industry will say that removing fares regulation and 'complicated' terms like super off-peak and off-peak will simplify things.

Just look at LNER's fares trial if you want to see what's really happening to the cost of fares.

 

[redreni]

It's pure bait & switch.

Make the unregulated fares cheaper than the regulated fares.

Say people find the regulated fares confusing and that nobody buys them anyway, so it won't matter if they're abolished.

Abolish the regulated fares.

Immediately increase the unregulated fares by any amount you like, unconstrained by any practical requirement to keep them cheaper than the regulated fare.

 

[Flying Snail]

It's pure bait & switch.

Make the unregulated fares cheaper than the regulated fares.

Say people find the regulated fares confusing and that nobody buys them anyway, so it won't matter if they're abolished.

Abolish the regulated fares.

Immediately increase the unregulated fares by any amount you like, unconstrained by any practical requirement to keep them cheaper than the regulated fare.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[route101]

I have found the advance fares on Avanti say between Glasgow and London have increased, usually £80 one way and upwards now.

 

[Sleepy]

There are some within the DfT who would rather have one customer paying £100 for an anytime ticket than having 2 customers paying £49 for an advance ticket for morning peak travel, which on some routes is back to near "pre-covid" levels on Tuesdays - Thursdays so the TOCs selling cheaper advances on trains which are already busy is throwing money away. As they know, those customers will fork out for the higher cost of commuting if they can't work from home.

But if they're booked on 0600 and oversleep, travel on 0630 then they'll end up buying an Anytime as well ......

 

[Kite159]

But if they're booked on 0600 and oversleep, travel on 0630 then they'll end up buying an Anytime as well ......

Or most likely chance their arm at boarding the 06:30 service and hope the guard doesn't check tickets

 

[thedbdiboy]

Unfortunately there is absolutely no transparency when it comes to Advance tickets. While far from perfect fares regulation does at least give a ceiling for many fares. TOCs/DfT/RDG hate fares regulation and want it removed, they say it's outdated, belongs in the 1990s, not want people want etc.

You've only got to look at the LNER fares trial to see the likely direction of travel...

Regulation is applicable to privatised industries. It was essentially a bribe by the 1990s Tory Government to promote the 'benefits' of privatisation. Now that the industry is being nationalised (and fares have effectively been nationalised since COVID) it can't survive in its current form.

 

[Hadders]

Regulation is applicable to privatised industries. It was essentially a bribe by the 1990s Tory Government to promote the 'benefits' of privatisation. Now that the industry is being nationalised (and fares have effectively been nationalised since COVID) it can't survive in its current form.

That may well be the position but the consequence (intended or not) is that passengers are facing massive increases in fares. You only need to look at LNER to see what's coming.

Part of the problem is people think greedy private operators are out to rip them off and nationalisation will result in cheper fares. The opposite is actually true - regulation prevents those greedy private operators from ripping people off (it's not perfect but it does have some effect), whereas it's price rises all round on unregulated nationalised operators.

Those of us with long enough memories predicted this is what would happen......

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

It wasn't that long ago that rail fares were being increased by 5-8% per annum above inflation... by an outfit called British Rail during the early 90s recession. As previous two posts indicate, no need for fares regulation in the world we are going into or, indeed, any requirement to maintain SVR/SSR fares....

 

[talldave]

That may well be the position but the consequence (intended or not) is that passengers are facing massive increases in fares. You only need to look at LNER to see what's coming.

Part of the problem is people think greedy private operators are out to rip them off and nationalisation will result in cheper fares. The opposite is actually true - regulation prevents those greedy private operators from ripping people off (it's not perfect but it does have some effect), whereas it's price rises all round on unregulated nationalised operators.

Those of us with long enough memories predicted this is what would happen......

Indeed. And I fear rail travel will go the way of car ownership, where it's mandatory to own a smartphone, if you wish to park at your destination. As of this month, my local high street requires a smartphone to "pay" (nothing) for an hour's free parking.

I imagine TOC's accountants are salivating at the thought of no ticket offices, no ticket machines and no station staff.

 

[jayah]

What TOCs/DfT and RDG still fail to understand is that people will only pay so much for overcrowded, late running services.

That is true at the extreme, but don't underestimate the headroom on many routes, that are effectively single operator monopolies.

There are plenty of unreliable routes, that are also very crowded and very expensive.

It was a huge policy failure not to have full fare regulation in 1995 and instead permit these local monopolies to scrap Supersavers, squeeze the time restrictions on Savers (now called Super Off Peak) and jack up Anytime fares to over £1/mile.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Indeed. And I fear rail travel will go the way of car ownership, where it's mandatory to own a smartphone, if you wish to park at your destination. As of this month, my local high street requires a smartphone to "pay" (nothing) for an hour's free parking.

I imagine TOC's accountants are salivating at the thought of no ticket offices, no ticket machines and no station staff.

As someone who went through the process of privatisation and saw first hand how long it took for people to get used to the idea that 'BR' was no more, I can now see the same thing happening in reverse. It's not going to be TOC accountants, these sums are being done at system level (DfT/GBR) - and that is where the real cost and potential savings over things like ticket offices get noticed. It's was very easy for Mark Harper to 'order' the TOCs not to close ticket offices - but much harder for the Government when their own organisation is running the business. There will be a need to make savings in the rail industry budget and 'do nothing' is not an option. Reducing ticket office hours when society has a whole has moved so completely to using apps etc to buy things is going to be one of the less painful choices.

 

[kentrailman]

Just come across this as well. A few weeks ago I booked a peak Advance First class ticket from Bristol to London two days beforehand and it cost me (corrected from earlier, sorry!) about £70 , now all the advance tickets for weeks ahead at many times seem to have vanished and the price for the same trip is about £200. So much for inflation being 2% !

 

[Benjwri]

Just come across this as well. A few weeks ago I booked a peak Advance First class ticket from Bristol to London two days beforehand and it cost me less than £50, now all the advance tickets for weeks ahead at all times seem to have vanished and the price for the same trip is about £200. So much for inflation being 2% !

I think that price was either a mistake or you travelled at a time absolutely no one else wanted to travel. That price is £7 above the standard class super off peak single, which I have never seen on GWR for a route like Bristol to London.

Looking ahead I can see first class for around £80, which is what I would expect on GWR.

 

[kentrailman]

I think that price was either a mistake or you travelled at a time absolutely no one else wanted to travel. That price is £7 above the standard class super off peak single, which I have never seen on GWR for a route like Bristol to London.

Looking ahead I can see first class for around £80, which is what I would expect on GWR.

Oops, yes sorry it was a mistake, that was the second class fare, I did pay £70, just looked up credit card statement, sorry ! I will correct my original post, but availability was way better

 

[ScottishBriz]

There now seems to be no advance fares whatsoever at peak times. A year ago, you could get a return at peak time for around £40-55 pounds standard far 6-10 weeks in advance. Now, I have checked to the end of March '25 and there is nothing cheaper than £120 - it's an outrage. Would rather forego delay repay and have a reasonable cost of commuting. No nationalisation of GWR next year and Govt. saying no cheaper fares anyway - not sure how we can go on.

 

[WelshBluebird]

There now seems to be no advance fares whatsoever at peak times. A year ago, you could get a return at peak time for around £40-55 pounds standard far 6-10 weeks in advance. Now, I have checked to the end of March '25 and there is nothing cheaper than £120 - it's an outrage. Would rather forego delay repay and have a reasonable cost of commuting. No nationalisation of GWR next year and Govt. saying no cheaper fares anyway - not sure how we can go on.

When are you looking for? According to GWR advance fares are only available until March 21st right now, so if you are looking at the end of March you won't see any as they aren't available. I've just checked for a random date earlier in March (chose March 11th) and it looks like advances for less than £120 are available. Absolutely agreed they have gone up though (or the cheaper bands are available in much fewer numbers).

 

[Watershed]

There now seems to be no advance fares whatsoever at peak times. A year ago, you could get a return at peak time for around £40-55 pounds standard far 6-10 weeks in advance. Now, I have checked to the end of March '25 and there is nothing cheaper than £120 - it's an outrage. Would rather forego delay repay and have a reasonable cost of commuting. No nationalisation of GWR next year and Govt. saying no cheaper fares anyway - not sure how we can go on.

I wouldn't say it's an outrage that Advances have been withdrawn. I'd say it's an outrage that Anytime prices are so usurious and that the time restrictions on Off-Peak tickets are so onerous. The availability of reasonably priced Advances has just masked this.

 

[redreni]

I wouldn't say it's an outrage that Advances have been withdrawn. I'd say it's an outrage that Anytime prices are so usurious and that the time restrictions on Off-Peak tickets are so onerous. The availability of reasonably priced Advances has just masked this.

I understand the point, but of course every time the affordability of train fares is raised in any kind of political context the stock reply will include a line to the effect of "it doesn't always cost this much, if people book in advance they can pay as little as [insert cheapest possible Advance single fare here]".

Our political process doesn't handle detail well.

If, however, TOCs and the government are going to quote the cheapest Advance fares every time they're asked a question about how much the walk-up fares cost, as they have done consistently for years, then it is entirely legitimate for people to be outraged and to raise cost of living concerns when Advance fares disappear or people see a very large percentage increase in their cost.

 

[Kite159]

I understand the point, but of course every time the affordability of train fares is raised in any kind of political context the stock reply will include a line to the effect of "it doesn't always cost this much, if people book in advance they can pay as little as [insert cheapest possible Advance single fare here]".

Our political process doesn't handle detail well.

If, however, TOCs and the government are going to quote the cheapest Advance fares every time they're asked a question about how much the walk-up fares cost, as they have done consistently for years, then it is entirely legitimate for people to be outraged and to raise cost of living concerns when Advance fares disappear or people see a very large percentage increase in their cost.

Agreed, and the cheapest advance fares the MP will quote simply won't be available on those trains in the 'high peak' (at least Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday).

Just be thankful GWR haven't followed the lead of LNER to do away with flexible off-peak tickets to make things 'simpler', at least those tickets offer some sort of price cap for advances during times they are valid

 

[Sonic1234]

There are some within the DfT who would rather have one customer paying £100 for an anytime ticket than having 2 customers paying £49 for an advance ticket for morning peak travel, which on some routes is back to near "pre-covid" levels on Tuesdays - Thursdays so the TOCs selling cheaper advances on trains which are already busy is throwing money away. As they know, those customers will fork out for the higher cost of commuting if they can't work from home.

That second customer will either
- Buy a £100 anytime ticket, more revenue for the railway
- Travel at a different time, helps even out loadings
- Travel on a different day (Monday or Friday), more custom on a quieter day and helps businesses manage office space
- Work from home, the eco-friendly option and puts no capacity demands on the railway
- Drive, filling government coffers with tax revenue

The Government will consider all of these options a win. Unfortunately.

 

[Kite159]

That second customer will either
- Buy a £100 anytime ticket, more revenue for the railway
- Travel at a different time, helps even out loadings
- Travel on a different day (Monday or Friday), more custom on a quieter day and helps businesses manage office space
- Work from home, the eco-friendly option and puts no capacity demands on the railway
- Drive, filling government coffers with tax revenue

The Government will consider all of these options a win. Unfortunately.

For some in the government, sadly they see one passenger paying £100 is better than 4 passengers paying £24.

 

[Sonic1234]

For some in the government, sadly they see one passenger paying £100 is better than 4 passengers paying £24.

Exactly, and the 3 customers who used to pay £24 will be doing one of the options above, all of which the Government would be happy with